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Jason Woolley
08-30-2007, 05:26 AM
Most gradings seem to be testing the candidate's ability to perform techniques rather than receive them but I feel the two skills are linked.

Thoughts?

CitoMaramba
08-30-2007, 05:35 AM
Our first grading (for 5th kyu) explicitly includes ukemi skills.
In subsequent gradings, candidates are also assessed when they serve as uke for the other candidates.

Janet Rosen
08-30-2007, 11:06 AM
Our first grading (for 5th kyu) explicitly includes ukemi skills.
In subsequent gradings, candidates are also assessed when they serve as uke for the other candidates.
What he said!

CitoMaramba
08-30-2007, 11:30 AM
I remember one exam where my Sensei just threw me and pinned me non-stop for about 20 minutes... it seems he had seen enough of my techniques as tori during regular practice.. he needed to evaluate my ukemi more..

Ron Tisdale
08-30-2007, 12:04 PM
Doshinkan tests from 9th kyu through yudansha test for ukemi as well as shite waza. I have seen aikikai tests that just had nage/shite throwing. But even in that dojo, the instructor would not allow someone to test until he/she felt the testee's ukemi was up to par.

The Doshinkan syllibus has specific ukemi that must be at a certain level for each kyu rank, and they must be demonstrated on the test. In each test, the testee must perform both shite and uke roles.

Best,
Ron

gdandscompserv
08-30-2007, 12:11 PM
My ukemi is tested every time I hit the mat. A good way of testing one's ukemi is by doing it on "harder" surfaces. Good, immediate feedback.:uch:

Jason Woolley
08-30-2007, 12:30 PM
The Doshinkan syllibus has specific ukemi that must be at a certain level for each kyu rank, and they must be demonstrated on the test. In each test, the testee must perform both shite and uke roles.


Doh! I barely managed to keep from vomiting on my last grading, and that was just performing nage, I'm not sure how much more testing I want but I guess I asked for it!

The question was raised as I have trained with a range of people including those possessing more dan's than fingers on one hand, that were terrible at ukemi (static, unresponsive, lacking 'aliveness'). While grade may be indicative of technical skill it seems to me that it is not representative of a person's ukemi skills.

Perhaps there is a larger component of mind to successful ukemi than tori/nage?

regards,
Jason

ChiefDaddy
08-30-2007, 12:34 PM
My opinion is: yes it should be tested.
The ability to receive a technique is just as important as being able to preform a technique. If nage doesn't trust that the uke can take the technique then nage will not preform it as well as they could otherwise.

:ki:

giriasis
08-30-2007, 09:49 PM
Yes, we are tested, although it's not written on the syllabus. At 5th and 4th kyu sensei has the test takers take ukemi for each other. He's not just watching your technique but your ukemi as well. For dan test, the examiners will call up the younger shidoin (i.e. Wee Wow Dumlao, Skip Chapman) to throw you around.

Sonja2012
08-31-2007, 01:40 AM
IMHO you can tell a lot about somebody´s nage waza by watching them take ukemi, as all the basic principles needed for nage waza also apply for good ukemi (and I don´t mean just the falling/rolling bit).

So, yes, I think ukemi should be tested (again - not just if a person can fall but if they can actually hold contact/atteru, give a commited attack, stay with nage until "the end", etc.) according to the individual grade. But especially at shodan tests.

Just my two cents.

Chris Farnham
08-31-2007, 10:56 AM
Hello All-long term lurker, first time poster. In the USAF, Shodan candidates are now required to take Jiu Waza Ukemi from a randomly selected Shidoin. I believe that they are scored on things like keeping connection to nage, Maai etc. My understanding is that Yamada sensei wanted to ensure that Yudansha can demonstrate certain level of Ukemi competence.

heyoka
08-31-2007, 12:34 PM
At our school the abilities of the student as nage and uke are a normal part of any test. In other words any test is comprised of executing technique as nage and then receiving technique from the partner you just used as uke.

Best,

jennifer paige smith
09-03-2007, 01:23 PM
Ukemi is how we learn to receive grace.

It should be taught primarily. It should be tested. It is more than 50% of practice because we are always 'Uke' to the larger source of practice.
In many respects etiquette practice is ukemi practice because we have to conform to a new center and maintain our ability to adjust under new circumstances, eventually, with some grace.

jennifer paige smith
09-03-2007, 01:33 PM
Most gradings seem to be testing the candidate's ability to perform techniques rather than receive them but I feel the two skills are linked.

Thoughts?

Off topic, but I love your webpage at Exeter (here it is again for anyone who missed it www.exeteraikido.co.uk/). It is very informative and cleanly laid out. I like the definitions. My compliments to the chef.

See above post for 'on the subject commentary'. Thanks for the question.
jen

Jason Woolley
09-03-2007, 03:43 PM
Ukemi is how we learn to receive grace.

It should be taught primarily. It should be tested. It is more than 50% of practice because we are always 'Uke' to the larger source of practice.
In many respects etiquette practice is ukemi practice because we have to conform to a new center and maintain our ability to adjust under new circumstances, eventually, with some grace.

Jen,

Since I have lurked here I have always read your posts with interest ; some I liked and some have challenged me. This is one of the ones I like, because it recognises one of the intangible aspects necessary to successful practice.

While, in my mind, the original post was about the uke's ability to take their part in creating something greater than either uke or nage could create alone, it was focused purely on the physical.

After all, this is the part that is easiest to teach. But in truth, to take ukemi on the mat in such a way as to create those circumstances means that, almost certainly, one has gained the ability to 'roll with life's circumstances' off the mat - even when there is loss of face to do so.

It seems to me that many students feel they have 'something to lose' if they take proper ukemi. This is, IMO, an important hurdle to get over yet, is one that is very difficult to teach - it must be realised.

Jason