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antonis paps
06-01-2007, 09:17 AM
Every time I get to be an uke for the sensei
I get very tired, and I mean not only the times
the sensei beats the crap out of me(just kidding:D:D :D )
but even in usual training days.
And btw I am young, and quite fit.
I 've thought that is because of I breath wrong,
I get frustrated maybe from the pins and lose my ki.
I what to ask must I do some breathing exercises
even at home...?
Is it usual to get very tired?

Thanks!:cool:

Karen Wolek
06-01-2007, 10:04 AM
Hey! When did my Sensei go to Greece????? ;)

antonis paps
06-01-2007, 10:07 AM
Hey! When did my Sensei go to Greece????? ;)

lol :D :D

lifeafter2am
06-01-2007, 10:15 AM
I guess it would depend on how long you were practicing and how intense it is. The key is to just breath, and don't get frustrated with the pins, take it as a chance to catch your breath! :)

Also you can practice just falling down and getting up over and over at home. It uses a lot of different muscles than most are used to, and it takes time to become accustomed to it. I come from surfing and holding my breath all the time and I still get winded sometimes! I find it more fun than anything though, then again I am kind of crazy! :D

James Davis
06-01-2007, 11:04 AM
Every time I get to be an uke for the sensei
I get very tired, and I mean not only the times
the sensei beats the crap out of me(just kidding:D:D :D )
but even in usual training days.
And btw I am young, and quite fit.
I 've thought that is because of I breath wrong,
I get frustrated maybe from the pins and lose my ki.
I what to ask must I do some breathing exercises
even at home...?
Is it usual to get very tired?

Thanks!:cool:

Don't think about the fact that everyone is watching. Don't worry about impressing sensei with your ukemi, or how fast you can get up. Try to learn from what he's doing to you. Relax.:)

Tom Fish
06-01-2007, 01:54 PM
It might be a good excuse to see a doctor for a checkup. Fatigue can be a symptom of something else going on. If you find no other issues causing the tiredness, more practice will most likely fix you up.

Amelia Smith
06-01-2007, 08:09 PM
Speaking of medical stuff, sometimes I feel like I need more iron and also carbohydrates when I'm practicing a lot. Mmm, meat and potatoes. And maybe a beer.

In the meantime, and more directly related to aikido, maybe you need to learn to breathe with the technique. I usually exhale while attacking, sometimes inhale during the technique (if there's time) and exhale again on the throw, while falling. It's usually the same pattern for both uke and nage. Sometimes it helps.

Lachlan Kadick
06-01-2007, 08:14 PM
It might be a good excuse to see a doctor for a checkup. Fatigue can be a symptom of something else going on. If you find no other issues causing the tiredness, more practice will most likely fix you up.

I definitely have to agree with this, though I must ask, what's your training schedule like? A big part often, besides just having a really powerful sensei, is you might not have trained your endurance enough.

Roman Kremianski
06-01-2007, 09:23 PM
For a few seconds there I thought I was reading a poem about taking ukemi.

PeterR
06-01-2007, 10:05 PM
Every time I get to be an uke for the sensei
I get very tired, and I mean not only the times
the sensei beats the crap out of me(just kidding:D:D :D )
but even in usual training days.
And btw I am young, and quite fit.
I 've thought that is because of I breath wrong,
I get frustrated maybe from the pins and lose my ki.
I what to ask must I do some breathing exercises
even at home...?
Is it usual to get very tired?

Thanks!:cool:

I was in Larisa just last month - would not have minded a dojo visit at the time. Ah well.

The most exhausting thing about uke is getting up and when you are the demo uke that can be at a pace far more than your regular training. The only real answer is to do more of that sort of practice with your regular partners. If the class does not work at that speed when they normally practice (which I am absolutely sure is the case) find someone who is willing to do it right after class. A set of five techniques each done is rapid succession once as tori once as uke - make sure you do this every practice. In other words - you perceive a weakness and need to specifically train to address this in a manner as close as possible. This sort of self training would be good for your aikido as a whole.

You could do sprint training or some other form of aerobic training, breathing exercises, whatever you wish, and there will probably be some benefit but if you take a marathon runner and make them do rapid ukemi they will also have trouble - different movements, different muscles.

Dirk Hanss
06-02-2007, 02:46 PM
must I do some breathing exercises
even at home...?
No, you must do breathing exercises, wherever you are and at any time :!:
Just without the hands moving around. You can check and improve your breathing a lot while sitting in a train and or in the office - just don't forget to do your work ;)
And very good is trying ro go stairs upwards and keep breathing calmly and deep to the hara (or even lower). The idea is to slide stairs upwards, taking one or even to steps of the staircase at a time.
It helped me a lot.

Cheers

Dirk

stelios
06-04-2007, 03:37 AM
Come and meet my teacher in Crete. It would be a very familiar experience!

Stefan Stenudd
06-04-2007, 04:22 AM
Usually, when people get tired quickly in aikido training, it's because they don't relax, so their muscles work more than needed.
And learning to relax is very much learning to breathe deeply.

If you lose your breath, that's probably because you focus too much on breathing in, so you don't breathe out properly. Then you don't get much fresh air, no matter how quickly you breathe. Focus on breathing out - exhale long and forcefully, and don't worry about inhaling (your body will take care of that automatically).
That's also very good to do in stressful situations - like demonstrations or gradings.
Concentrate on breathing out, so that you empty your lungs well, before inhaling.

aikidoc
06-04-2007, 02:07 PM
I second Tom's suggestion. Especially, if this is a new sensation for you. If you are more fatigued than normal and this is something new or you have been doing a while and now suddenly it is fatiguing you I'd get a check up. There could be a lot of different causes, however heart problems crops up right away as a potential problem. Its better to be safe than sorry.

antonis paps
06-05-2007, 12:04 AM
Well first I would like to thank everyone for their answers.
They all were really helpful.

Well I 've only been doing aikido for 1 year..so I need to train more, and more that's for sure .
And I go three days a week only.

I can't say I more fatigued than normal,
Ι have been an athlete in the past.
I believe it's more like a mental fatigue...(the new theory is that fatigue actually begins from the brain - science illustrated)

At one time I was really really tired during a 4 hour seminar, that I was something like the demo uke because most of the time 90% it was me either watching the ceiling or the floor.
Next times I got a bit anxious i think, and that made me more fatigued.

Some days I do this kind of training and some not.
So I'll try after class..
I need it for seminars and they are often.

I have noticed that I lose my breath even from the begining sometimes, and yes i need to relax.
And the sensei (that has his years) not for the slightest bit.Not even after randori!!!

I try to be a good uke, and maybe i look good(at least thats what the others say) and from the beginning I realized the importance of being a good uke, and breakfalls...and I like it when the sensei calls me to be his uke..
but in the end i'm only 1,* years in aikido..and don't wants to get fatigued so much..
either I find a way or stop being uke.

Thanks.

Regards,
Antonis Papas

senshincenter
06-05-2007, 01:02 AM
In my experience, if you are in shape, and no new medical condition is afoot, fear, which is often behind not relaxing, is the culprit. At the beginning, fear goes away via faith, and faith comes via experience. Give yourself more time, not many one year old uke can do a four hour seminar and be a sensei's uke and not get tired. Let your experience expand, and out of that faith will come - fear will move out of its light, and you'll be able to relax.

fwiw,
dmv

bkedelen
06-05-2007, 01:23 AM
High level practitioners break your rhythm, interrupt your breathing, challenge your ukemi, and make you pay continuous attention, all of which sucks the life out of a regular training partner. Applying relaxation techniques, familiarity with your teacher's techniques, commanding your own breathing apparatus, learning to adjust your rhythm to the situation, and mastering ukemi skills is the antidote.

Of course aerobic exercise is also very important, but everyone (Aikido practitioner or not) should be getting regular aerobic exercise anyway, right?

Edward
06-05-2007, 01:29 AM
Nothing unusual imho.

I can practice for a long time with a partner without getting exceedingly tired. But when the teacher is using me as uke, even for just a few minutes, I get quickly exhausted. It's more psychological than mere physical exhaustion I guess.

Amir Krause
06-05-2007, 01:38 AM
It is not necessarily fear.

Whenever I enter Hen-Randori (empty hand, Jo or Bokken) with sensei or one of my Sempai (and several other exceptional fighters among my Kohai), I find myself draining much faster. My concentration level is significantly higher (lose half a moment and you are down \ hit) compared to practicing with students who are newer then me.
I stopped fearing these situations long ago, I practice for over 15 yrs and was hardly ever injured in a Randori and never seriously. Even though the Randori in our system has both sides freely playing (offence and technique).

I think this is only natural - a more difficult situation requires more of you.

Amir