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Adam Alexander
02-11-2007, 02:45 PM
http://www.aikiweb.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=413&size=big&sort=1&cat=522

I would of expected sh'te's alignment to be more defensive than I see in this picture. Any thoughts? (Besides the one I know, that I can't be right?)

mickeygelum
02-11-2007, 04:24 PM
I would have a hard time commenting on where or how the alignment would have been more or less, unless I was able to observe the complete technique....the photograph only illustrates a mere moment in time and at this particular instant, what technique is being illustrated? It could be one of many.... :)

aikidoc
02-11-2007, 04:29 PM
How could it be more defensive? He is to the outside of the uke with the uke's elbow checked with is arm. THe uke would have to reach clear across yis body to strike during which time he would be dropped. Where would you like tori to go? He's in the blind spot area.

Tinyboy344
02-11-2007, 09:36 PM
How could it be more defensive? He is to the outside of the uke with the uke's elbow checked with is arm. THe uke would have to reach clear across yis body to strike during which time he would be dropped. Where would you like tori to go? He's in the blind spot area.
I have to agree with John plus he's Doshu... I'm pretty sure he knew what he was doing ;)

Adam Alexander
02-11-2007, 09:52 PM
Thank you very much. Every now and again I need a reminder of why I don't post very much anymore.

I know who he is, that's why I said that I couldn't be right. Get it? I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on why it may or may not be defensive.

Sometimes I forget that keyboards are so easy to come by.

xuzen
02-11-2007, 10:31 PM
http://www.aikiweb.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=413&size=big&sort=1&cat=522

I would of expected sh'te's alignment to be more defensive than I see in this picture. Any thoughts? (Besides the one I know, that I can't be right?)
Let me try, let me try!

Tori (Doshu) is the center, uke is orbiting around Tori. As such, the circle that Tori (Doshu) will travel will be smaller than that of Uke. As such the centripetal force will be greater than that of uke. The time for Tori to land a strike to Uke is shorter than uke.

Assuming uke is being uncooperative and he pull back his arm (as in cases with those undoctrinated newbie), this position leads nicely to ushiro-ate.

Boon.

SeiserL
02-12-2007, 06:33 AM
I would of expected sh'te's alignment to be more defensive than I see in this picture. Any thoughts? (Besides the one I know, that I can't be right?)
Greetings,
How's my home town? (Okay, it was actually Pontiac) I get up there every once in a while.

I think this may have been at the Oakland, California seminar. If so, I was there.

I often think to two classifications of Aikido techniques. There are the quick practical ones and the flowing ones that emphasize the principles.

The technique shown looks like blending outside the range, but IMHO, maybe more principle oriented.

crbateman
02-12-2007, 07:07 AM
Although Doshu would ideally want to close distance and get into the back of uke's shoulder for many techniques (and he may indeed be on his way there in the picture, it's hard to tell), the space left between them suggests that a big, fat sweeping kotegaeshi ura is coming. That is, the flamboyant, visually impressive version common to many demonstrations, rather than the closer, guarded, more practical version.

gdandscompserv
02-12-2007, 07:15 AM
BALSPHEMY! STONE HIM!
Just kidding. :D
Personally, I would be hesitant to critique Doshu's technique.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b379/deserthippie/peace.gif

Adam Alexander
02-12-2007, 08:28 AM
Greetings,
How's my home town? (Okay, it was actually Pontiac) I get up there every once in a while.

That shook a memory or two. I haven't stopped in Pontiac in around 13 or 14 years.


BALSPHEMY! STONE HIM!
Just kidding. :D
Personally, I would be hesitant to critique Doshu's technique.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b379/deserthippie/peace.gif
I'd hesitate too. I hope you're not implying that that's what I had done.

crbateman
02-12-2007, 08:40 AM
So would I, to be sure. I was only trying to respond to the question for opinions as to what technique might be shown in the picture. Anybody who thinks I was criticizing anything has taken me out of context.

mickeygelum
02-12-2007, 08:57 AM
" To err is human, to forgive divine...".....He maybe Doshu, but, he is allowed to make mistakes...and that is how we all learn. Do you think that he does not? He just happened to have the BEST teachers available to him... ;) And so there is no debate, I am not implying that there is err in the picture, just we do not what is being illustrated.

Some times the simplest question is the most thought provoking...Thanks Jean!

Peter Goldsbury
02-12-2007, 09:39 AM
And this entire discussion is based on a single picture...

Best wishes,

crbateman
02-12-2007, 10:37 AM
And this entire discussion is based on a single picture...Thanks for the well-deserved dose of perspective, Professor. It's good to see you back on the forums. Your insight was missed while you were away.

Adam Alexander
02-12-2007, 10:46 AM
Thanks for the well-deserved dose of perspective, Professor. It's good to see you back on the forums. Your insight was missed while you were away.
Be cautious what you appreciate. His response had nothing to do with giving anyone perspective as much as it had to do with gaining attention for his self-perceived superiority.

You'll notice that those who level the most informative and wise posts never deliver such condescension. Those who matter, wait to be followed. Those who don't, beg for attention.

Further, his perspective, as expressed through his post, is technically naive.

Budd
02-12-2007, 10:50 AM
Those who matter, wait to be followed. Those who don't, beg for attention.

So, are you waiting to be followed or begging for attention?

Adam Alexander
02-12-2007, 10:55 AM
Those who matter, wait to be followed. Those who don't, beg for attention.

So, are you waiting to be followed or begging for attention?

As anyone engaged in these exchanges, begging for attention.

Budd
02-12-2007, 11:01 AM
As anyone engaged in these exchanges, begging for attention.

I think I'll aknowledge your honesty, but disagree with your either/or classification. I also kind of agree that worthwhile analysis based on a single picture (or sometimes an entire video -- depending on the analysis) can come across as rather spurious.

Adam Alexander
02-12-2007, 11:38 AM
This is depressing. I guess it's part of the training.

Michael Douglas
02-12-2007, 02:20 PM
There's nothing in that picture to critique or to praise!
He's just doing some Aikido seminar about some technique or other.
We don't know what technique.
His apparent 'defensiveness' is irrelevant.
Not enough information exists to even discuss the picture.

Now, let's imagine he was known to be doing throw-A from position-B in style-C,
then we'd know about it could discuss.

Here there is nothing.

raul rodrigo
02-12-2007, 03:22 PM
Be cautious what you appreciate. His response had nothing to do with giving anyone perspective as much as it had to do with gaining attention for his self-perceived superiority.

You'll notice that those who level the most informative and wise posts never deliver such condescension. Those who matter, wait to be followed. Those who don't, beg for attention.

Further, his perspective, as expressed through his post, is technically naive.


Professor Goldsbury writes one descriptive sentence that is obviously, undoubtedly true. Yet you manage to go from there to "self-perceived superiority,""condescension," "beg for attention, "technically naive." How you managed that is truly beyond me.

Adam Alexander
02-12-2007, 03:33 PM
How you managed that is truly beyond me.

Of course it is.

crbateman
02-12-2007, 04:44 PM
Come on, Jean. Is all that really necessary? Consider your own advice:
You'll notice that those who level the most informative and wise posts never deliver such condescension.

Adam Alexander
02-12-2007, 04:50 PM
Luckily for me, I never felt that I was giving knowledge or wisdom.

crbateman
02-12-2007, 04:59 PM
I didn't think you were, either, but I'd have a hard time describing it as "lucky".

aikidoc
02-12-2007, 05:23 PM
Jean-are you trolling? Your profile says you're interested in Aikido. Do you even train? I find it extremely curious that you sarcastically attack Dr. Goldsbury who in my experience always provides a sane point of view in the forums he choses to participate in. Perhaps that is why he is a moderator in some. I believe that is probably why he is president of the IAF.

Since we all seem to not be as enlightened as you perhaps you will help us understand the point we seem to be missing.

Perhaps when someone wants to start a pissing contest if no one participates then maybe we'll all stay dry.

Adam Alexander
02-12-2007, 09:50 PM
Jean-are you trolling? Your profile says you're interested in Aikido. Do you even train? I find it extremely curious that you sarcastically attack Dr. Goldsbury who in my experience always provides a sane point of view in the forums he choses to participate in. Perhaps that is why he is a moderator in some. I believe that is probably why he is president of the IAF.

Since we all seem to not be as enlightened as you perhaps you will help us understand the point we seem to be missing.

Perhaps when someone wants to start a pissing contest if no one participates then maybe we'll all stay dry.

No, I'm not trolling. I'm just a little burned out from people putting on shows.

raul rodrigo
02-13-2007, 01:17 AM
It seems that Jean is spoiling for a fight, with anyone he can find. Best to bow out and leave him alone.

aikidoc
02-13-2007, 07:43 AM
I'm not sure who was putting on a show. Peter just made a very appropriate observation. It was one photograph which without the bigger picture (more pictures) means little.

ian
02-13-2007, 07:57 AM
OK - baiting aside,
This relates to something I've been thinking of for a while. Ueshiba (Morihea that is) visibly does this thing where he opens up to present a target, enabling the attack to be controlled. i.e. the psychological aspect is very important.

Once the attack to the target is initiated, he draws the target away (e.g. a tae-sebaki, like that shown in the photo).

I didn't really understand what you mean Jean; do you think he is too open or too unbalanced? The balance doesn't seem wrong for a moving person. I would also say the openess is only apparent - he's withdrawn that open target from uke and can no longer be hit by him. Without the dynamic interaction (of open/closed yin/yang) you could say anyone that gets close enough to an attacker for them to attack is a fool. It's true, but aikido is very much about being open, and allowing the attack, then enabling control of that attack.

I certainly think the psychological aspect is imperative in aikido, whereas in other martial arts often the body is closed as fully as possible to protect from an attack before the attack has even been thought of (making a more threatening gesture, and also making is harder to presume where they will attack).

Could you expand more fully on your original point Jean?