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graham
05-16-2006, 04:24 PM
Hi everyone,

I've made the decision to start learning Aikido and was very pleased to find this forum. I read through a couple of good threads where someone was saying something like, "Can you win fights with Aikido?" and the responses were often, "No. But you might learn how to live peacefully."

It's exciting to see that there are people out there who live this stuff.

(At some point, I'll post about my concerns learning Aikido at my age and in my physical state, but I wanted to pop in first and say Hi.)

gary james
05-16-2006, 04:36 PM
Welcome , Graham
Glad your here!

akiy
05-16-2006, 04:52 PM
Hi Graham,

Welcome to AikiWeb.

-- Jun

siwilson
05-16-2006, 06:46 PM
I read through a couple of good threads where someone was saying something like, "Can you win fights with Aikido?" and the responses were often, "No. But you might learn how to live peacefully."

?????

WHAT?

Don't listen to fruity gay crap like that! Aikido is a highly effective martial art, not a dance (like some schools have become), or a make pretend. Yoshinkan is about applied effective technique.

So the real answer to your question is:

"Can you win fights with Aikido?" and the responses should be, "Yes. If you practice the right Aikido form and follow its teachings."

Kick Arse!!!!! ;)

graham
05-17-2006, 08:13 AM
Thanks for the welcome. :)

Si, I probably summarised the threads badly! It was more about saying that Aikido isn't about going round winning fights (ala UFC) - and that if someone was interested in that then Aikido may not be right for them (regardless of whether or not it was up to the task).

I'm probably a bit too fruity gay, but I'm not all that interested in kicking arse. I'll leave that to you! ;)

Mark Freeman
05-17-2006, 08:17 AM
So the real answer to your question is:

"Can you win fights with Aikido?" and the responses should be, "Yes. If you practice the right Aikido form and follow its teachings."



So Si the right Aikido form is..... the one you do?
and the wrong Aikido form is......what precisely?

regards,

Mark
p.s. Welcome to the forum Graham, the practise here is like the dojo, sometimes soft, sometimes not ;)

siwilson
05-17-2006, 11:15 AM
Thanks for the welcome.

Si, I probably summarised the threads badly! It was more about saying that Aikido isn't about going round winning fights (ala UFC) - and that if someone was interested in that then Aikido may not be right for them (regardless of whether or not it was up to the task).

I'm probably a bit too fruity gay, but I'm not all that interested in kicking arse. I'll leave that to you!

Graham,

I was having a bit of a laugh. Maybe needed more smilies in there, so just to make sure......

:D ;) :) :p :freaky: :) ;) :D

Aikido has a bad press from some of the ways it is practiced. There has been this whole move in some schools away from teaching someone effective technique and towards making better people. The latter is a commendable goal, but why not do both.

Personally, if my practice was not as an effective martial art then I would not be practicing it. The worry is that there are some schools of Aikido that are not practicing it as an effective martial art.

Mark

I did say "form" not style. I am not in the habbit of rubbishing other schools or getting in to the "mine is better tham yours" cr4p.

An example of bad Aikido happened at a seminar a couple of years ago. There was a black belt (2nd Dan - he made the point of telling me) and we bowed to eachother to meet to practice the technique just shown - Irimi Tsuki (or Shomen Ate as some call it).

I went first, he attacked very lightly, and I entered, palm under his chin and stuck him on the mat. He lept up shouting, "What are you doing? What are you doing? You're not supposed to touch me! You're supposed to show your hand in front of my face and I fall down!" ????? He attacked again - lightly. I entered, palm under his chin and stuck him on the mat. He lept up shouting, "That not Aikido!" and ran off. I said "It is where I come from!" :freaky:

I didn't pound him, as I met the attach with the measured responce appropriate to his attach. I made sure it was effective though.

If he had shown his hand in front of my face I wouldn't have fallen over, I would have just looked around it and ask him what he was doing! I didn't get the chance though, he was off! :D

If people are happy with practicing non-effective Aikido, then all power to them for it, but that is not for me. If I felt it didn't work I would g back to Judo, Jujutsu, or Kung Fu, but I feel it does work and that is why I do it.

graham
05-17-2006, 01:34 PM
Aikido has a bad press from some of the ways it is practiced. There has been this whole move in some schools away from teaching someone effective technique and towards making better people. The latter is a commendable goal, but why not do both.

Ah, I get ya. Thanks. :)

I must admit that as I've visited different forums and looked into which style I'd like to look at the times I've seen people slagging off other styles it's almost always related to this issue. Either the style practices competitions and so isn't real aikido, or it doesn't so it's just nice theory.

Looks like I inadvertently entered a live debate!

siwilson
05-17-2006, 03:31 PM
Ah, I get ya. Thanks. :)

I must admit that as I've visited different forums and looked into which style I'd like to look at the times I've seen people slagging off other styles it's almost always related to this issue. Either the style practices competitions and so isn't real aikido, or it doesn't so it's just nice theory.

Looks like I inadvertently entered a live debate!

Actually, I have a lot of time for Tomiki Aikido, although I have no interest in competitions. I was talking with Bob Jones (head of Tomiki UK - BAA) and he said that he teaches competition Aikido and then after their competition Aikido career he then teaches them Aikido.

If I didn't do Yoshinkan Aikido, then I would follow Joe Thambu Sensei's wisdom and practice Tomiki Aikido. I have trained some Tomiki Aikido and found it quite complementary to my Shudokan/Yoshinkan background.

I also admire Yamada Sensei, although I am confused as to why his student's Aikido don't look anything like his Aikido!!!???

There is some great stuff out there and some great people, but I know with Yoshinkan that we do not let the students standard be slack.

Nick Simpson
05-18-2006, 02:17 AM
went first, he attacked very lightly, and I entered, palm under his chin and stuck him on the mat. He lept up shouting, "What are you doing? What are you doing? You're not supposed to touch me! You're supposed to show your hand in front of my face and I fall down!" ????? He attacked again - lightly. I entered, palm under his chin and stuck him on the mat. He lept up shouting, "That not Aikido!" and ran off. I said "It is where I come from!"

If I had a pound for everytime I've heard 'thats not aikido'...

Incidentally, I know a bunch of folks who train in that manner, but their not in aikido, thankfully.

Mark Freeman
05-18-2006, 04:00 AM
Mark

I did say "form" not style. I am not in the habbit of rubbishing other schools or getting in to the "mine is better tham yours" cr4p.

Interesting Si, you say the above, then you go on to say:An example of bad Aikido happened at a seminar a couple of years ago. There was a black belt (2nd Dan - he made the point of telling me) and we bowed to eachother to meet to practice the technique just shown - Irimi Tsuki (or Shomen Ate as some call it).

I went first, he attacked very lightly, and I entered, palm under his chin and stuck him on the mat. He lept up shouting, "What are you doing? What are you doing? You're not supposed to touch me! You're supposed to show your hand in front of my face and I fall down!" ????? He attacked again - lightly. I entered, palm under his chin and stuck him on the mat. He lept up shouting, "That not Aikido!" and ran off. I said "It is where I come from!"

I didn't pound him, as I met the attach with the measured responce appropriate to his attach. I made sure it was effective though.

If he had shown his hand in front of my face I wouldn't have fallen over, I would have just looked around it and ask him what he was doing! I didn't get the chance though, he was off!

So as much as I think you are just pointing out an example of 'bad aikido' you are still falling into the relativity trap.

I too am prone to this, so I'm not just singleing you out ;)

I come from the 'soft' end of the aikido scale and can quote similar examples of 'bad aikido' from the 'hard' boys. So we must be open to the different ways of aikido practice ( which it seems your 2nd Dan partner was not )
This is one of the reasons that my teacher does not encourage cross style training, he says we would just cause too much touble :D

Cheers
Mark

dps
05-18-2006, 06:46 AM
Hi everyone,

-- and the responses were often, "No. But you might learn how to live peacefully."



Whether your Aikido is effective in a fight is determined by how the individual uses what is learned. Won't really know until it happens. Whether your Aikido is effective in how you live is determined by how the individual uses what is learned. Won't really know until you try.

mickeygelum
05-18-2006, 09:26 AM
Welcome Graham,

I wish you well in your journey...there are so many diverse opinions as to what Aikido is all about...take none of ours, fore they are forged in whatever form that we as individuals want to portray it...make your own assessment and travel far...personally, my life is more than half over, and I am a professional warrior...the martial arts have kept me safe and allowed me to make it this far...Aikido has made me a better warrior, but has elevated my character to it highest plateau..and it allows me to give back that which I have received.

Go train, tell us what you have learned and discovered....see if it is something we have missed...and then teach us.


Miku-san

Darren
05-18-2006, 11:02 AM
[QUOTE=Si Wilson]If I didn't do Yoshinkan Aikido, then I would follow Joe Thambu Sensei's wisdom and practice Tomiki Aikido. I have trained some Tomiki Aikido and found it quite complementary to my Shudokan/Yoshinkan background.

Joe Thambu teaches Yoshinkan Aikido .

siwilson
05-18-2006, 12:12 PM
Joe Thambu teaches Yoshinkan Aikido .

True, but he said if he didn't do Yoshinkan he would do Tomiki!

:)

Lucy Smith
05-19-2006, 10:22 PM
Well, I don't know in your countries but here is quite late at night so I'm quite zombie-like :hypno:

Anyway... sheesh... stop arguing, we all love Aikido don't we? Aren't we supposed to share experiences, learn from each other, and accept our differences?? Blending, that's the word.

And yes we can kick butt!!! evileyes

:mad:
:disgust:
:p