Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > AikiWeb System

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-07-2003, 12:01 AM   #1
AikiWeb System
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,318
Offline
AikiWeb Poll for the week of December 7, 2003:

How natural are the technique movements in aikido to you?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Extremely natural
  • Very natural
  • Natural
  • Somewhat natural
  • Not at all natural
Here are the current results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2003, 04:07 AM   #2
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
It would be interesting if it was possible to relate the answers to how long people with certain opinion has been training. It takes a while before hanmi etc. feels natural.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2003, 11:24 AM   #3
wendyrowe
Dojo: Aikidog Aikikai
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 199
Offline
I've been studying aikido for seven months. I was amazed from the first move (irimi) at how incredibly natural and "right" everything felt.

I have a bit of trouble with spacial relations, so sometimes I don't get a new move until I've done it maybe 10 times -- but then I understand it and after another few dozen reps it feels great.

The surprising thing is that every so often we learn a technique that feels totally abnormal to me. Koshinage is the latest. I'm not sure yet exactly what it is that throws me off. Once I've practiced hard enough and often enough I can do the "abnormal" techniques, but they never feel as good as the rest -- it's like I have to think about them more so they don't flow as well and become part of me like the others.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2003, 03:32 PM   #4
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
I have found that many of the people I know who do aikido who have not done other arts which require breakfalls do not like koshinage.

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2003, 06:07 PM   #5
wendyrowe
Dojo: Aikidog Aikikai
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 199
Offline
Mark,

In my case, it's not the falling part of koshinage that feels wrong. When I'm nage, it feels awkward while I'm getting into position to perform koshinage on uke. I do OK with koshinage when I'm uke (I've taken breakfalls in my kenpo karate class), but I have to admit I enjoy a nice flying ukemi more.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2003, 12:21 AM   #6
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
If you think that turning your back to the opponent in synchronization with the attack instead of blocking it is natural, then aikido movements are natural
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2003, 02:42 AM   #7
sanosuke
Dojo: Seigi Dojo
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 247
Indonesia
Offline
i think the more experience we gained during practice the more natural our technique and movement will be.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2003, 05:40 AM   #8
Bussho
Dojo: Aarhus Shobukan
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 21
Offline
It would really depend on what you mean by natural.

In one sense all movement is natural, since it comes from you.

So the question could be would the movement give you any problems if you train it in the long run? The only answer to this is yes, since all movements , in the long run, will make the joints deteriate. Some can hold longer and some can't.

If the questions if it doens''t put strain on the body then the answer is no, since everthing puts some kind of strain on the body.

So maybe we are left with : Something that feels OK. And can that be natural? Nope, since it's a feeling an depened on the invidual it can't be natrual, but it can be the best thing for the person.

/Terje
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2003, 12:27 PM   #9
tedehara
 
tedehara's Avatar
Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
Offline
Quote:
Edward Karaa (Edward) wrote:
If you think that turning your back to the opponent in synchronization with the attack instead of blocking it is natural, then aikido movements are natural
You never turn your back to an opponent.

Even when you're doing randori and there are people behind you, you never give them your back. You're always moving, keeping them in front of you. That's why this is a martial art.

Years ago in the incident with Count Dante, a judo guy got killed because he did a shoulder throw in a fight. You turn your back on your opponent in a shoulder throw and that's ok for a tournament, but this was a real fight. He got knifed in the back as he was throwing.

In a martial art like Aikido, you don't have to expose your back. If you do, it's a mistake.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2003, 02:12 PM   #10
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
If you have good training in other arts, you may be sensing an opening in your koshi. Have your instructor or a senior grade watch while you do it. Have your uke see if they can apply a rear naked choke while you do it. There are ways to close these holes, but since there are many styles of koshi, and this is not on the mat, its too hard to really describe for me. But someone at your school can probably help out.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2003, 06:26 PM   #11
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Off topic

Quote:
Ted Ehara (tedehara) wrote:
Years ago in the incident with Count Dante, a judo guy got killed because he did a shoulder throw in a fight
Count Dante? What does this mean?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2003, 05:45 AM   #12
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,715
United_States
Offline
Because of past training and experience,

many of the moves in Aikido did not feel "natural".

Now, after 9 years, they do.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2003, 08:43 AM   #13
aikidocapecod
Dojo: Shobu Aikido Cape Cod
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 152
United_States
Offline
I had some Karate and Kung Fu training before I began Aikido in 1986. After my first few Aikido classes...I found walking and chewing bubble gum at the same time a real chore!!!

After a few years of Aikido, the movements always felt contrived....forced....in other words....I could not do them!!

My Sensei then, Len Rose Sensei (God watch over his soul), had the patience of a Saint, and kept after me to not think of the movements as some strange martial arts move, but rather a simple everyday movement. Over the years moving has become less of an effort.

My Sensei now, Bill Gleason Sensei, has deepened my understanding of movement. When I watch Gleason Sensei move with Bokken, I do not see this move or that move, but rather I see one long flowing movement. One I hope to be able to come close to in another decade or so.

When I have my small class with some beginners, I try to make the movement seem like walking and turning when called by a friend. Or assimilate it to a dance step one may have done. Just so the students do not think of the move as some mystical step.

To answer the question,,,,,,

How natural are Aikido movements to me?

Some are as natural as walking now.....

When in the past they were most difficult.

A very good question.....one that has made me think.......

Thanks
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2003, 04:50 AM   #14
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
Quote:
Ted Ehara (tedehara) wrote:
You never turn your back to an opponent...

Years ago in the incident with Count Dante, a judo guy got killed because he did a shoulder throw in a fight.
Also recall that when Ueshiba was challenged by a Judo guy he just struck the hip which the Judo bloke thrust out towards him in an atempt to do a hip throw (which unfortunately resulted in permanent damage).

I think when we start doing techniques they are unnatural because we are learning them in a formalised way. Aikido seems to be one of those things that is a complete whole, and therefore to penetrate it we must do little bits, but these aren't really aikido.

e.g. koshi nage is a useful technique, but you can only do it in the correct situation (i.e. strong attack where you are in close and they are already committed).

I think there is a boundary between learning techniques, and then discovering how the techniques fit the attack appropriately (and competition could prevent this happening because force would be used as a subsitute for skill).

Yes - aikido is natural, but only when your mind is open and the techniques are internalised!

Ian
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2003, 04:57 AM   #15
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
P.S. I was teaching a beginner who had only done ikkyo; I was going over some blending exercises which enable you to follow ukes movements and then we did some slow randori. I thought I'd let him have a go and he ended up doing kaiten-nage, irimi-nage, ikkyo, sumi-otoshi - I was amazed that these techniques drop out of blending so easily (although he didn't know what he was doing).

Because he was not trying to 'achieve' a technique, but just blending and following aikido principles, these techniques just appeared.

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2003, 01:09 PM   #16
Alfonso
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
Offline
I find the movements all very natural

but not at all intuitive or easy to learn

if I move in a way that is unnatural to the way my body works, I take that as a sign that I screwed up..

Alfonso Adriasola
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2003, 03:05 AM   #17
Oryoki
Location: boulder colorado usa
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1
Offline
natural to me

I studied Akido about 20 years ago but had to stop because my Ki was in my head and I would get too dizzy.

Then about 10 years ago my Ki moved to my heart and I rejoiced.

Perhaps soon my Ki will go where it belongs and I will lead a balanced life.

The things I learned were only openings to reality or natural processes if you will.

I find it very natural moving through a crowd extending my Ki forward to clear the way.

Ki breathing comes to me in times of stress or pain for relief, or just when I want to relax. It is very natural to breath with the entire body.

When in a strange situation being ready and never underestimating ones opponent is automatic and very natural.

So yes, after 20 years of not practicing Akido I would say it is natural to use.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2003, 09:30 PM   #18
tedehara
 
tedehara's Avatar
Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
Offline
Re: Off topic

Quote:
Hanna Björk (Hanna B) wrote:
Count Dante? What does this mean?
Count Dante was from Chicago. I heard stories of my sensei's misspent youth with other martial artists. Some of them were karate types. One of them was Count Dante AKA John Keehan.

I guess if you're not from Chicago, or a Karate person, or a reader of 1960's comics, you're probably unaware of him. BTW he's not as evil as most people want to protray him as. If my sensei's stories are correct, he was more honorable than some who are presently favored in Karate circles.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why do some people hate Aikido? Guilty Spark General 609 12-29-2010 04:29 AM
Dilution of aikido eugene_lo General 40 02-07-2006 11:22 AM
What Makes a Technique an "Aikido" Technique? akiy Techniques 55 11-02-2005 02:01 PM
Poll: Do you think koshinage as practiced in aikido is a martially effective technique? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 12 10-01-2002 11:30 AM
Poll: On what part of your foot do you usually perform turning movements in aikido? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 3 08-22-2002 03:59 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:08 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate