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Old 08-20-2017, 02:01 PM   #1
senshincenter
 
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The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Seen this video:

https://youtu.be/FV4RW7mIXIE

Below are some comments I made on YouTube. Anyone else want to chin in here?

- Why is there a need to title this video ""The Disillusionment of Aikido"? Why is it not more accurately titled, "The Disillusionment of MY Aikido"? Or even, more accurately, "How to Adapt Aikido and Aikido Training for Unarmed Dueling"? While one's awakening experience may feel immense and universal, it is only ever based upon one's ignorance. One's ignorance is always and only a very personal thing - a very small thing. We should not universalize our ignorance or the desires upon which it is based. Our own ignorance should not be assigned to everyone else, and nor should our associated awakening experience be considered desirable or needed by everyone else.

- Aikido as a whole is a fictional term, a political one. In truth, there are countless "Aikidos." It has been like this from the Founder onwards. Some are better geared toward dueling, some see dueling as a waste of time - an arena felt only important by spiritually immature unreconciled egos. Some are geared toward the use of weapons. Some are geared toward combat (i.e. which is not dueling). Some have no interest whatsoever in martial things of any kind. One could go on and on and this fact would never change no matter how much non-practitioners talk about a single "Aikido" on the Internet and no matter how much younger practitioners that say they practice Aikido are influenced by such talk. The various things Rokus did and did not do are personal to his own practice. He is not representative of a great many Aikido practitioners, and many of those practitioners could have told him long before he realized it in a ring that he was set for a rude awakening. In truth, his supposed insights and aspirations from said awakening, along with his own ignorance that preceded it, should remain particular to him. If Rokus wanted insight into "Aikido," before looking outward (which is not a bad thing necessarily), he should travel and see all the other Aikido that is out there. This will help him lose his sense of Aikido, that singular fiction which does not exist, and by doing so he will find his own. Otherwise, stop Aikido, prioritize dueling environments, and practice BJJ if you control for strikes, or MMA if you don't. That would be a much quicker and more comfortable route to take.

- Really? Dueling in a ring with rules and no weapons is actual fighting? Hardly.

- You're describing duels still. I think Rokas and Roy are describing duels too. And that's fine. As long as duels are your thing, then let them be your thing. Cool. My point however is that a great many Aikido practitioners are not training for duels, and a great deal more think that duels are best solved by maturing spiritually. This is because duels and unreconciled pride are so intimately connected. I would agree with you that duels come with either stated rules or subconsciously accepted shared cultural assumptions. So yes, this is why duels that happen in bars between intoxicated young males, for example, seldom go to biting or eye gouging or to pulling a knife. They don't often involve murder. Etc. But because of this one is only dealing with a subset of human violence - not with all of human violence. Take another area, such as Law Enforcement. There are no rules for the criminals, and there are always weapons present, and no one is looking to shake hands and go their separate way after things are all done. Criminals are not looking to gain points or save pride. They are looking to avoid arrest by violently incapacitating, even by murdering, an officer - doing so by any means necessary. From this perspective, duels are rituals or games - not the whole or even the most real kind of violence. They are a test of skills under a certain set of shared assumptions. From the dueling perspective, for example, long hair and a lack of strength can be a zero issue. From this other perspective, way before the absence of weapons is even criticized, long hair and a lack of physical strength is going to be made an issue. From this other perspective, addressing this other type of human violence, you're going to taught how to squat and deadlift and told to cut your ponytail off before you even start worrying about what techniques are martial or not.

- The issues I raised are not related to sparring or the absence of sparring. Sparring and other kinds of live training environments should always be a part of one's training if one's goal is technical access and application under stressful and speed-of-life conditions. I agree. My stated issue with the video was on a different point and was twofold: I am critical of how Rokas inappropriately generalized the art as a singular whole, with his own Aikido practice being not only representative of that whole but an emblem for that whole; and, second, that his quest to make his own Aikido more martial is merely a quest to make his Aikido more duel appropriate. The latter described effort is moot in my opinion because MMA as it is commonly understood (boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, and BJJ) is already perfectly adapted to unarmed duels. If unarmed duels are your thing, it's ridiculous to adapt an Aikido for such purposes, especially from a starting point of a lower level Aikido skill while using the assistance of others having a lower level Aikido skill. Such adaptation is not only a waste of time, it is likely impossible. Just do MMA, learn that craft with the help of these great teachers, and the solution for that problem is solved. However, due to the aforementioned impossibility of such an adaptation, you are not doing and will not be doing Aikido. Your doing MMA, and any inclusion of Aikido's Kihon Waza training paradigm and/or its culture is a waste of time. (Note: This remains true even if one is seeking skills such as timing, connection, blending, yielding, etc., since these martial attributes are also present in the systems/arts that comprise MMA.) Because he does not do this, Rokas is merely going from one misunderstanding to another misunderstanding all the while he makes claims of alignment and allegiance with this great abstract and fictional whole called "Aikido." Instead, as a real warrior would do, he should just have ownership over his own ignorance. It's his journey he's on. It's not Aikido's journey. This makes another more accurately describing video title come to mind for this series: "A Documentation on How I quit Aikido and started doing MMA."

But, if he is truly on a quest to make his Aikido more martial and not just more duel appropriate, then rather than looking toward dueling and duelist, he should look deeper into Aikido, and into Aikido's past, beyond his own individual Aikido, past that of his Federation, beyond his teacher's Aikido, outside of his dan ranking, over and above modern marketing discourses on self defense and martial arts training, having nothing to do with what Hollywood says violence is, where the hypothetical bar-fight scenario question never comes up, and where the issue is life-and-death and not win-and-lose. There and then, from there and from then, after learning how to squat and deadlift, and after cutting his ponytail off, he should bring knife and handgun utilization into his practice and look at his own Aikido from and through these weapons. He must also reclaim, if he has not already, Aikido's atemi, ne-waza, and its mechanisms for cultivating spontaneity (takemusu-aiki). He should also find a teacher that can teach him how to ground and project (i.e. Kokyu-Ryoku), since Aikido tactical architectures require and assume this skill, since they cannot reach full functionality just on the skills of Aiki and Musubi. (Note: This kind of teacher is extremely rare in Aikido circles in my experience, and so he may have to look outside of the art for this lost and disappearing skill.) In my opinion, if he were to do this, the assumptions Aikido makes, and the training paradigms it opts for, including its rituals, culture, and spiritual concerns, would begin to make more sense to him. It would be an entirely other way of addressing his rude awakening and it would do so without having his Aikido disappear.

David M. Valadez
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Old 08-20-2017, 06:55 PM   #2
MrIggy
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Dude, why do you even bother? Nobody even has an idea of what the hell Rokas is trying to achieve with his dumb videos.
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:36 AM   #3
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

The video is clumsily titled, but it's not without content, and as a result of posting it he has gained a great many words of insight from people like yourself.

Perhaps Rokas wasn't looking for that, but it has happened nonetheless, and he (and many others tuning in, including myself) will be richer for it.

Dialectic is never a mistake.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:55 AM   #4
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

There seems to be a few of these kind of youtube videos, but also some interesting and positive ones. Maybe slightly off topic to this thread but I saw a video of a guy that had adapted aikido hand locks into his MMA/grappling. He was getting heaps of his skilled MMA competitors to submit and tap out. Fascinating to watch.
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Old 09-02-2017, 03:18 PM   #5
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Quote:
Edward Matthews wrote: View Post
There seems to be a few of these kind of youtube videos, but also some interesting and positive ones. Maybe slightly off topic to this thread but I saw a video of a guy that had adapted aikido hand locks into his MMA/grappling. He was getting heaps of his skilled MMA competitors to submit and tap out. Fascinating to watch.
You mean this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RANe1ilDlrE&t=348s
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Old 09-02-2017, 09:40 PM   #6
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
Hi Igor,

I hadn't seen that one, thanks for sharing. This is the video that I was referring to, I find it very interesting: https://youtu.be/7Oo2Sa8BHzs

What are your thoughts on it?

Last edited by Dothemo : 09-02-2017 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 09-02-2017, 10:06 PM   #7
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

This was my reply that I posted to that vid:
You can't add anything to Aikido to make it better otherwise it will no longer be Aikido. The most you can do is to go study other arts alongside Aikido - it will improve your Aikido, and you won't have to change anything. For myself, I studied various other arts - got BB in 6 before age 30, then 20 years in Asia, am now 55 and still doing Aikido. The main thing is - just keep it as Aikido. Don't change it or you will lose it. Aikido is, 'The Way of Aiki'. If you adopt this mentality in your search, people who do other arts will come to you to find that 'aiki' so they can put it in their arts. I have been saying this for years but no one listens. If you do not understand this, you must search. If you just do physical waza, your skill will be greatly limited, and your mind will never progress beyond that of those in this video.

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Old 09-03-2017, 07:50 AM   #8
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
The main thing is - just keep it as Aikido. Don't change it or you will lose it.
Sometimes stating the obvious is the clearest way to understanding. This is one of those times.

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
Aikido is, 'The Way of Aiki'.
We learned it as "The Way to Union with Ki", which is essentially the same thing.

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
I have been saying this for years but no one listens.
Not no one, I think. There are some of us who have been on that path for a long time.

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
If you just do physical waza, your skill will be greatly limited, and your mind will never progress beyond that of those in this video.
Add to that: as long as you measure your skill in terms of overcoming opponents you will miss the point of Aikido entirely.

Ron

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Old 09-03-2017, 08:38 AM   #9
MrIggy
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Quote:
Edward Matthews wrote: View Post
Hi Igor,

I hadn't seen that one, thanks for sharing. This is the video that I was referring to, I find it very interesting: https://youtu.be/7Oo2Sa8BHzs

What are your thoughts on it?
In the general sporting sense of it's use, not bad. There are other techniques and moves that he could use for actual takedowns rather then kotegaeshi which isn't a takedown technique but he seems to be doing ok so far with what he knows. Also there are several ways to use kotegaeshi but I don't know if he is familiar with them. All in all he is doing a better job then most Aikido people out there.
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:06 AM   #10
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post

Add to that: as long as you measure your skill in terms of overcoming opponents you will miss the point of Aikido entirely.

Ron
For me .. the purpose of Aikido is to overcome your opponent.

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Old 09-04-2017, 01:27 AM   #11
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Quote:
David Valadez wrote: View Post
But, if he is truly on a quest to make his Aikido more martial and not just more duel appropriate, then rather than looking toward dueling and duelist, he should look deeper into Aikido, and into Aikido's past, beyond his own individual Aikido, past that of his Federation, beyond his teacher's Aikido, outside of his dan ranking, over and above modern marketing discourses on self defense and martial arts training, having nothing to do with what Hollywood says violence is, where the hypothetical bar-fight scenario question never comes up, and where the issue is life-and-death and not win-and-lose. There and then, from there and from then, after learning how to squat and deadlift, and after cutting his ponytail off, he should bring knife and handgun utilization into his practice and look at his own Aikido from and through these weapons. He must also reclaim, if he has not already, Aikido's atemi, ne-waza, and its mechanisms for cultivating spontaneity (takemusu-aiki). He should also find a teacher that can teach him how to ground and project (i.e. Kokyu-Ryoku), since Aikido tactical architectures require and assume this skill, since they cannot reach full functionality just on the skills of Aiki and Musubi. (Note: This kind of teacher is extremely rare in Aikido circles in my experience, and so he may have to look outside of the art for this lost and disappearing skill.) In my opinion, if he were to do this, the assumptions Aikido makes, and the training paradigms it opts for, including its rituals, culture, and spiritual concerns, would begin to make more sense to him. It would be an entirely other way of addressing his rude awakening and it would do so without having his Aikido disappear.
In short: forget Aikido, do jiu-jitsu.
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Old 09-04-2017, 02:30 AM   #12
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

That's not at all what I said.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
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Old 09-04-2017, 04:25 AM   #13
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
We learned it as "The Way to Union with Ki", which is essentially the same thing. Ron
Actually, I disagree 100%. Words are important. You have broken the concept of aiki into its constituent parts. Aiki is the target. Terms like 'union of ki' make it sound mysterious and prevent learning. You could break the word 'broadcast' down to its components to explain its meaning, but there really is no need so no one ever does. Some might get mixed up and 'cast the broad' and get rather lost. It's there in the name, hidden in plain sight: Aiki-do. I say, stick with that and use it. It is simply, The Way of Aiki. We have to use our Aikido syllabus to learn aiki. Our focus should be on what aiki is and how to learn it through the techniques. The waza are the 'means', but for 99% of people, the waza are the 'end'. There is nothing else. Everyone is graded on waza, for example. A higher grade just = more waza. They think, "I know more than you." Some schools have ki-no-nagare but they are usually just another bunch of waza that people perform in unison like robots (foot here, hand there, etc.). Other schools do bokken/jo waza and, from what I clearly see, what they do contradicts what they do in their Aikido. We should unify what we do. What you learn in one place should reinforce what you learn in another. Your ikkyo should reinforce your irimi-nage etc. What you learn in shiho-nage should reinforce every other waza etc. We should isolate common principles (ideas) and put them in everything. I rarely see that. And that is still just at the level of waza. Some people have found some aiki through extended training - but it is all accidental. They do not understand it even though they can do it a bit so can not teach it. Nor can they develop it because they don't know exactly how they got it. They hit on one idea, then everyone has to follow ... but it fails to reproduce.
When I was younger I travelled a lot ... for Aikido. I mean .. a lot. More than most I'd say. I have seen a lot of 'different approaches'. And still ... it is hard to train aiki !!!

Just my 2c.

Last edited by Rupert Atkinson : 09-04-2017 at 04:38 AM.

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Old 09-04-2017, 06:07 AM   #14
MrIggy
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

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Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
Actually, I disagree 100%. Words are important. You have broken the concept of aiki into its constituent parts. Aiki is the target. Terms like 'union of ki' make it sound mysterious and prevent learning. You could break the word 'broadcast' down to its components to explain its meaning, but there really is no need so no one ever does. Some might get mixed up and 'cast the broad' and get rather lost. It's there in the name, hidden in plain sight: Aiki-do. I say, stick with that and use it. It is simply, The Way of Aiki.
And there are several ways to actually understand what "Aiki-do" is supposed to mean. Reconciliation of "Aiki" first in our own body ("Aiki body"), reconciliation between ourselves and others, some say that this is actually Aiki (Ai - Ki) reconciliation of different Ki's, or simply using your body as an "Aiki" vessel to reconcile other with the "Aiki powers", which in that case means you can use other objects as well (AikiKen, AikiJo).

Quote:
We have to use our Aikido syllabus to learn aiki. Our focus should be on what aiki is and how to learn it through the techniques.
Everybody says that trying to learn "Aiki" through techniques or waza is a waste of time or as Yukioshi Sagawa put it, for amateurs.

Quote:
The waza are the 'means', but for 99% of people, the waza are the 'end'. There is nothing else. Everyone is graded on waza, for example. A higher grade just = more waza. They think, "I know more than you."
A higher grade isn't supposed to be "just more waza" it's supposed to be more proficiency in the knowledge and use of principles with that waza. But that's another topic.

Quote:
Some schools have ki-no-nagare but they are usually just another bunch of waza that people perform in unison like robots (foot here, hand there, etc.).
"Techniques in movement" is essentially "ki no nagare" in the understanding of that term in those dojo's.

Quote:
We should unify what we do. What you learn in one place should reinforce what you learn in another. Your ikkyo should reinforce your irimi-nage etc. What you learn in shiho-nage should reinforce every other waza etc. We should isolate common principles (ideas) and put them in everything. I rarely see that.
Like the use of tenshin and kaiten movement in many techniques?

[quote]And that is still just at the level of [i]waza[/I]. Some people have found some aiki through extended training - but it is all accidental. They do not understand it even though they can do it a bit so can not teach it. Nor can they develop it because they don't know exactly how they got it. They hit on one idea, then everyone has to follow ... but it fails to reproduce. Was that extended training waza training or other solo exercises like the one Rinjiro Shirata taught to certain people?

Last edited by MrIggy : 09-04-2017 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:26 AM   #15
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
Like the use of tenshin and kaiten movement in many techniques?
Exactly. Often - if you watch people closely: First, they practice tenkan. Sometimes by themselves, sometimes with a partner etc. Sometimes both. At this level - what they do often differs. Then they do a few waza. And, if you watch, they are not putting what they do when doing tenkan in their waza. They do it differently - they are not unifying their movement. Of course - they think they are - but well, just go watch and see. Then .. more importantly ... examine yourself. It is not an easy thing to do of course. But do it we must. Few people point such out. You have to train yourself - no one will do it for you. Like I said - people who have been training for years think they know it but, well, just stand back and watch. I am guilty of it too - it is hard.

And yes - I think it is very hard to learn aiki through the waza - but that is what Aikido is. Better, train a bit, go away and think, create some exercises to help you unify movement, then go back to your next Aikido class and test out what you have discovered. Use the waza to test your aiki development. I think the most useful training is self-training at home. Thinking about it etc. then testing thinking testing thinking ... and so on. You can never do that in class.

I went on one weekend seminar with Shirata Rinjiro Sensei many moons back. He just taught normal Aikido stuff. Maybe he had some solo exercises for his students???

I do have some exercises I have made - I just love them - but if I show them people ... well ... they are just not interested. They just see them as warm up exercises. I guess you have to think and make your own - they will be 1000 times more relevant.

Last edited by Rupert Atkinson : 09-04-2017 at 06:40 AM.

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Old 09-04-2017, 07:54 AM   #16
RonRagusa
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
Actually, I disagree 100%. Words are important. You have broken the concept of aiki into its constituent parts. Aiki is the target. Terms like 'union of ki' make it sound mysterious and prevent learning.
And accuracy is important too. I never said I broke the concept 'aiki' down to anything only that's how I was introduced to it by my instructor. My teacher didn't believe in the hocus pocus description of ki development. It was all very down to earth conditioning of mind and body in order to perform as a unified entity; no mysterious energy or action at a distance nonsense.

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
It's there in the name, hidden in plain sight: Aiki-do. I say, stick with that and use it. It is simply, The Way of Aiki. We have to use our Aikido syllabus to learn aiki.
You object to using the term 'ki'; understandable in light of all the interpretations of ki bandied about in the 70s and the 80s. I'm not so particular and have no axe to grind when it comes to terminology so I'll defer to aiki in order to move the discussion along.

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
Our focus should be on what aiki is and how to learn it through the techniques. The waza are the 'means'...
No objections to what you're saying here. I would like to add that the waza are one tool used to discover aiki but it is also developed via other exercises that aren't classified as aikido waza. I don't want to drift too far off topic here so I'm not going into detail regarding the whole mind/body development syllabus.

To bring this back to the topic, the people in the video seem to think that Aikido is the techniques of Aikido and consequently totally miss the boat when it comes to what training in Aikido is all about. For them it's all about the application of technique in, as David noted in his post, dueling. And if that's where a person's interest lies then it's smarter to just study MMA which addresses the issue directly.

Ron

Last edited by RonRagusa : 09-04-2017 at 08:07 AM.

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Old 09-04-2017, 02:16 PM   #17
MrIggy
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

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Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
Exactly. Often - if you watch people closely: First, they practice tenkan. Sometimes by themselves, sometimes with a partner etc. Sometimes both. At this level - what they do often differs. Then they do a few waza. And, if you watch, they are not putting what they do when doing tenkan in their waza. They do it differently - they are not unifying their movement. Of course - they think they are - but well, just go watch and see.
This isn't what I mean't but it's also a good point.

Quote:
Then .. more importantly ... examine yourself. It is not an easy thing to do of course. But do it we must. Few people point such out. You have to train yourself - no one will do it for you. Like I said - people who have been training for years think they know it but, well, just stand back and watch. I am guilty of it too - it is hard.
We are all guilty of it, but again that's what instructors and training partners are for, to help guide us in our way. The whole point is not to take criticism as something malicious.

Quote:
And yes - I think it is very hard to learn aiki through the waza - but that is what Aikido is. Better, train a bit, go away and think, create some exercises to help you unify movement, then go back to your next Aikido class and test out what you have discovered. Use the waza to test your aiki development. I think the most useful training is self-training at home. Thinking about it etc. then testing thinking testing thinking ... and so on. You can never do that in class.
Not everybody will agree with you on the "this is what Aikido is" part. Been there, done that with the testing, there is a difference I can tell that much.

Quote:
I went on one weekend seminar with Shirata Rinjiro Sensei many moons back. He just taught normal Aikido stuff. Maybe he had some solo exercises for his students???
Probably, check out and contact Allen Beebe https://trueaiki.com/

Quote:
I do have some exercises I have made - I just love them - but if I show them people ... well ... they are just not interested. They just see them as warm up exercises. I guess you have to think and make your own - they will be 1000 times more relevant.
If they don't want them so be it, at least you showed them.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:30 AM   #18
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

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David Valadez wrote: View Post
That's not at all what I said.
No, but that's what you are pointing Rokas to. To what Ueshiba was doing/teaching in the 30's-early 40's, Before Aikido as a term for his JJ was adopted.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:03 AM   #19
MrIggy
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
No, but that's what you are pointing Rokas to. To what Ueshiba was doing/teaching in the 30's-early 40's, Before Aikido as a term for his JJ was adopted.
Actually up until as long as 1950. , the year Sensei Tada started his training, it was still known as Aiki-Budo. It was known as Aikido in the Dai Nippon Butokukai, so it would match Judo, Kendo etc. in the administrative name formalization. Also there are resources that mention the use of the term Aiki-do even earlier, http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...mories-part-1/ , scroll down to the eimeiroku picture were it's written: "Eimeiroku from the Ueshiba Dojo, dated 1926... From "Aikido Kaiso Ueshiba Morihei-den" (合気道開祖植芝盛平伝)" .
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Old 09-09-2017, 06:56 AM   #20
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

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Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
Actually up until as long as 1950. , the year Sensei Tada started his training, it was still known as Aiki-Budo. It was known as Aikido in the Dai Nippon Butokukai, so it would match Judo, Kendo etc. in the administrative name formalization. Also there are resources that mention the use of the term Aiki-do even earlier, http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...mories-part-1/ , scroll down to the eimeiroku picture were it's written: "Eimeiroku from the Ueshiba Dojo, dated 1926... From "Aikido Kaiso Ueshiba Morihei-den" (合気道開祖植芝盛平伝)" .
My mistake, "Aikido Kaiso Ueshiba Morihei-den" is the name of the book in which the eimeiroku is found. There is no mention of the term "Aikido" in the eimeiroku.
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Old 09-09-2017, 03:49 PM   #21
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
No, but that's what you are pointing Rokas to. To what Ueshiba was doing/teaching in the 30's-early 40's, Before Aikido as a term for his JJ was adopted.
This is not true at all again, and such a distinction is based upon nothing but a revisionist history and a political agenda.

https://youtu.be/NOd4WmdjbAI

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:58 AM   #22
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Re: The Disillusionment of Aikido Video

lol
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