Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2006, 02:03 PM   #26
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: Training over 50

I'm fifty-nine and have been training since age six. I began with judo and then began karate-do and jujutsu around twelve. I was promoted shodan in all three arts just before my seventeeth birthday. I began aikido training at twenty-one and gave up serious karate training. After many years of judo and strong shiai, I have knee issues (two surgeries), otherwise, I'm fairly genki and continue to fall when necessary (but not so much for fun as in the old days). I do very little shikko and only when absolutely necessary. I definitely train way smarter now than when I was younger. I kinda wished I hadn't done the sort of makiwara training and tameshiwara when I was a teenager. If I had been able to play the violin, I probably couldn't nowdays... My standing judo is tempered by a very good understanding of the person I'm bowing in with but am quite willing to do newaza with anyone. I don't mind "losing" in the least. Along with a number of years training in Shinto Muso Ryu, my main practice has been aikido and Jiyushinkai aikibudo since the mid-seventies. I'm looking forward to the next fifteen or twenty years of training at whatever level is possible.

Gambatte!

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 02:31 PM   #27
vjw
Dojo: Rochester Phoenix
Location: Rochester, NY
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 83
United_States
Offline
Re: Training over 50

Hi fellow 50s.

Something that I find counter productive is the amount and type of stretching that is often contained in a class warm up, particularly if it is not preceded by muscle warming exercises. I believe warm up exercises should mimic the movements that are to be performed in the class. They should increase blood flow to the muscles and raise core temperature. This will also improve the function of the nervous system and help prevent injury during class. Over stretching at the start of class weakens muscles and makes you more susceptible to injury. I end my classes with 5 -- 10 minutes of stretching. As muscles are now warm, flexibility can be increased and muscles will recoup more quickly. Of course this is not appreciated so much by the younger students, but I have had good feed back from those of our age group. Andrew, I like your idea for an over 50s forum.

Work + Adequate Rest = Success. Keep it up guys,

Vic
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 03:33 PM   #28
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
Offline
Re: Training over 50

One thing to remember is that when the older partner sits out to take a breath, he may be imagining the younger partner thinking "Bother, what a wimp, he's interrupting my training"--but pretty often the younger partner is *really* thinking "Whew, I was going to have to call for a break any second now, he's saved my pride!" (At least, I know that's usually what I'm thinking. Or sometimes "Never mind my pride, never mind he's twenty years older than me, I'm beat.")

Another is that the punishingly hard standard of training some younger people set, while it is certainly not great for older students, may not be all that smart for the younger ones either--just because they *can* doesn't mean that they won't pay for it down the road. One thing you may be doing by setting realistic limits on your breakfalls is acting as a role model for younger students who would also benefit from such limits, but haven't figured that out yet.

Mary Kaye
(only 42 but previously unathletic, and facing some physical limitations as a result)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 04:48 PM   #29
Dan Rubin
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Location: Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 312
United_States
Offline
Re: Training over 50

I'll be 62 in a couple of weeks. Ironically, I think I have an advantage over some other students because, although I've been training in aikido for a very long time, and before that in other arts, I was never very good (I do not have an athletic bone in my body). Therefore, I feel no need to compete with my younger self. To the contrary, my aikido is better now than ever, including my ukemi. In my competition with my "last week" self, I'm always a winner.

And I find that at my age I'm not embarrassed to attend beginner classes and work on the bad habits I've developed over the years. I'm a sandan, but I learn a lot in beginner classes.

My biggest problem is with stamina. And while I sometimes take pride in keeping up with some young guy, it often turns out that he (or she) was out drinking until 4 AM and spent the day snowboarding. But I've also discovered that I won't really die if class doesn't end within the next five minutes. And when young students complain of aches and pains, I always tell them, "Don't worry. It gets easier as you get older."

I've never been very competitive, and I consider that a great advantage now. On my way to every class I think of some aspect of technique and ukemi that I want to work on, and I train relatively slowly, concentrating on those aspects . If my young partner wants to mix it up, he'll have to wait a few minutes until we switch partners. Sometimes I feel like I'm cheating my young partner of good training, but I console myself with the knowledge that my partner is cheating himself or herself of the value of slow training once in a while. It's also part of everyone's practice to learn how to deal with all variety of partners; usually the students who avoid training with me are the same students who avoid training with beginners or children or small women. Basically, they just enjoy training with each other.

(At the same time, I understand their enjoyment of an athletic practice. And I realize that they need such practice in order to advance their aikido skills.)

Sometimes I watch some athletic young student and I whisper to myself, "Let's see if you're still practicing aikido when you're my age."

I should live so long.

Dan
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 08:18 PM   #30
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
Location: Salwa, Kuwait
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Kuwait
Offline
Re: Training over 50

Quote:
Alec Corper wrote:
I agree with what you say, intensity is still possible for shorter duration, and recovery is longer. And, yes, flexibility in knee, hip and shoulder is something I can relate to. Do you have any specific exercises or do you simply pay more attention to the areas as you warm up. I've also found that some light strength training is doing me good, maybe i was getting too relaxed/lazy
1. I have to be more careful to align my heels when doing shikko and suwariwaza, as well, stretching so that I can get the largest amount of groin flexibility that I can get. That allows me to stay lower and not damage the meniscus of the knee. It also allows me to put my knee on the ground a lot softer when moving.
2. I do a lot of movement training to expand the range of motion of all my joints as well as stronger and longer pins to expand the range of motion of my shoulders.
3. I do a lot of counter-power training where people lock down on me so that I have to move rather than relying on my own power to overcome semi-lockdowns. If the people lock down on you, then you have to do the techniques correctly using the appropriate muscle sequencing rather than relying on the strength of one or two muscles. That forces you to move away from using power in awkward positions which can lead to greater damage in your joints.
4. I slow down my warmups and try to increase the range of motion each time. Many of my stretches are dynamic in that they require movement from one position to another (not bouncing stretches). For instance, rather than just spreading the legs to stretch the groin, I try to expand the range of motion by staying in the leg spread position and rotating my body around by walking my hands from one side to the other. That helps me expand my range of motion rather than just stretching one group of muscles.
5. I punch a rock to strengthen my knuckles while I wait for the judo people to clear the dojo. It makes them clear out quicker. And it is good for keeping your intensity up.

Rock

Last edited by Rocky Izumi : 03-03-2006 at 08:31 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2006, 07:35 AM   #31
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,211
Offline
Re: Training over 50

I did not read over the thread so I do not know if this was already mentioned: training every other day helps keep the body flexible and injury free. The reason seems to be that when training daily, you train with a stiffer body the second day and so are more prone to injure yourself.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2006, 10:34 AM   #32
Alec Corper
 
Alec Corper's Avatar
Dojo: Itten Suginami Dojo, Nunspeet
Location: Wapenveld
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 255
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Training over 50

Thank you, Rocky,

Your last post was very useful, especially focussing awareness on muscle sequence in movement. This appears to me to be a very conscious way of distributing power and ensuring that the various body parts are properly engaged. When you refer to aligning the heels in shikko do you mean keeping them aligned to the whole foot and the long thigh muscle at the same time?
As for the rock punching I think I understand that as "clear out the dojo" waza

To all who have posted I have got some useful tips and, for sure, a good feeling about the fact that there are still people out there training past the half century, and some already planning the next half.

gambatte, Alec

If your temper rises withdraw your hand, if your hand rises withdraw your temper.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2006, 07:40 PM   #33
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
Location: Salwa, Kuwait
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Kuwait
Offline
Re: Training over 50

Alec,

When doing shikko or any suwariwaza technique, you need to keep your heels as close together as possible and to at least keep the heels in line with each other when keeping them close together is not possible. A lot of times, I see people who put their front foot down halfway between their back foot and knee. If you try shikko like that, you will find that putting the up knee down gently on the ground is impossible and you actually fall forward instead of taking a step.

Rock
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2006, 03:13 AM   #34
Jerry Miller
 
Jerry Miller's Avatar
Location: Spring Tx
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 163
United_States
Offline
Re: Training over 50

I'll be 50 this year. I just had meniscus surgery on one knee. Taking a short break from classes. There are limits and training smarter helps.

Jerry Miller
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2006, 10:17 AM   #35
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
Location: Salwa, Kuwait
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Kuwait
Offline
Re: Training over 50

BTW, intensity in training does not come just from doing things quickly. Intensity in training comes from training with a mental state that focuses on where you are and what you are doing constantly during the training (Sen-shin, Tsu-shin, and Zan-shin). Each attack is done with intensity though perhaps not with speed. When attacking with a Shomenuchi, you should be trying to knock the other person down with the blow or break their head open. When done slowly, this is quite safe, especially if you ensure that you focus on the attack you are supposed to be practicing and not on just hitting the nage. When grabbing the nage, uke should be doing it so that nage cannot move them. You can react with the same rate of motion as nage uses so that nage's practice is rewarded when the technique is done correctly but the attack is honest and done with intent. This creates intensity in practice without necessarily making you move at the speed of sound. A lot of younger people I practice with find themselves tiring very quickly and slowing down to a reasonable speed for practice once my attacks are done with intensity (though not necessarily with speed). When I begin to practice at their speed with my intensity, they are the ones that tire out most quickly.

Often, I see that the speed with which people practice Aikido masks the fact that the attacks are impotent and done without focus (or intensity). The speed also masks a lot of mistakes in the practice. When the attacks are done with intensity, the mistakes and poor practice are exposed and nage then has to start practicing seriously rather than just for aerobic conditioning. Yes, we have our own version of boxercise or taebo in aikido. I do not speak against aero-kido since that is the type of practice that suits those people who do it. However, if you wish to increase the intensity of your practice as you get older, try having your partner attack you with more intensity. If your partner insists of doing aero-kido when you do not, then just start attacking the nage with a little more intensity and they will have to start practicing with a little more intensity rather than speed.

A large part of Inten-sity is Intent.

Rock

Last edited by Rocky Izumi : 03-05-2006 at 10:19 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2006, 10:49 AM   #36
Alec Corper
 
Alec Corper's Avatar
Dojo: Itten Suginami Dojo, Nunspeet
Location: Wapenveld
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 255
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Training over 50

Hello Rocky,
thank you for the time and intention you put into these replies. I understand this form of training to be a form of tanren and a deeper application of the irimi principle, not technically but with the intent of chushin dori. This is the Budo of Aikido that is often missed, and as you say, covered up by speed, rather than mindful sincerity. I also feel that this is a more inwardly martial practice, than, say, high speed randori, and demands more of both uke and tori.
If we were on the mat together now I would say, Thank you sensei no BS, just respect for the obvious years.

Alec

If your temper rises withdraw your hand, if your hand rises withdraw your temper.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2006, 06:30 AM   #37
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
Location: Salwa, Kuwait
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Kuwait
Offline
Re: Training over 50

I'm just a nobody who talks too much and has too many opinions that I don't keep to myself. But, thanks. Keep practicing and don't let the young ones run you around. If that happens, just go find a rock to pound on with your fist until your knuckles bleed and you will be able to raise your intensity and make them slow down. Just remember to practice a lot of ukemi so that you can take whatever they decide to dish out, then return it right back to them. Reminds me of practicing with Dave and Tony back at the Hombu in Wakamatsu-cho. We'd be able to clear a big space for ourselves to practice by practicing intensely, trying to pound each other into the mats.

Rock
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2006, 08:46 AM   #38
RonaldNoronha
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1
Canada
Offline
Dead Re: Training over 50

After about 25 years of Karate training and a 2nd Dan under my belt, I moved into Aikido at the age of 56. I reckoned the transition would be easy, especially since I had a highly technical and solid training in traditional Shotokan Karate.
However once on the mat, I realised how frustating this beautiful art can be for a beginner. Now after about 8 months of training -although difficult and painful at times I am really enjoying the ride. Hopefully with this band of highly skillful and motivated instructors with whom I learn and train with - I will be able to continue and learn as much as I can from this gentle art.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Hellenic Aikido Foundation - International Aikido Summer Camp - Greece July 2014



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Am i missing something?? aikigirl10 General 119 04-20-2006 12:07 PM
Beginners Retention Rates akiy Teaching 45 04-05-2006 11:13 PM
The Nage/Uke Dynamic - Guidelines senshincenter General 47 02-20-2006 05:20 PM
Rank-Aikido (pun intended) senshincenter General 88 11-21-2005 02:55 PM
committed attack/sensitive ukemi paradox Janet Rosen Training 30 10-13-2005 07:18 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:58 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate