Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-12-2008, 07:36 PM   #76
ken zen ichii
Location: Nasu Shiobara City
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

About Sensei Camar and Aiki Kai.
I met Sensei Camar once in Angeles City, Philippines and He asked me how my father was. He knew my father personally.
I wont say that I know Sensei Camar personally because it did not came to that level yet but I heard many things about Sensei Camar during the early years years of Aikido in the philippines (Late 1950's early1960's) when Tohei Sensei came to the Philippines and also when Tohei Sensei inaugurated the opening of the Angeles Aikido Club (Late 1950's).
When the conflict between Kisshomaru Sensei and Tohei Sensei started, many high ranking aikidoka's broke up with the Aikikai and joined the Ki Society. The Angeles Aikido Club under Sensei Chan Hoc Seng sided with benjamin galarpe and joined the Ki Society but with respect to the Aiki Kai which gave blessings to the Angeles Aikido Club, Chan Hoc Seng closed the school formally. Regarding Sensei Camar, in respect to Tohei Sensei and the Aiki Kai, he decided to be on the neutral side. About His 8th Degree, regardless of whoever gave it, I think the old man is qualified for it.
He is the head of the manila aikido club same thing with the heads of other groups. May I ask if any body knew who gave the grades of the old masters during their time? Did we questioned those grades?
Maybe the problem with Aikido in the philippines is jealousy and way of thinking. Sensei Camar, Sensei Galarpe, Sensei Chan hocseng were all propmoted by the Aiki Kai during the old times. And old martial artist, not only Aiki Do, in the philippines knew that Sensei Camar was the chief instuctor of Aiki Kai when Aiki Do was still very young. Other Aikido groups who claims to be this and that, Do you really know the history of Aiki Do in the Philippines? Did it not even entered your mind if your Sensei regardless who they are really did studied Aiki Do with the Aiki Kai or Ki Society or Yoshin Kan or maybe they just learned their moves via book or steven seagal movies? Try to understand your roots before you question somebody else's position. The path teaches Us to learn how to respect not to insult. Sorry to say but sometimes, affiliations can be requested from the Organizations if you pay the registration fee and certificates can be bought on the streets of Avenida. So to you Ritchie Martinez, believe in your Sensei, because of Him you are what you are now. If other groups try to question you again, just ignore them, raise your head up and say OMAR CAMAR is my Sensei. Thats all you'll need.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2008, 02:03 AM   #77
Mannix Moya
 
Mannix Moya's Avatar
Dojo: Quezon City Aikido Club
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 37
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

well..I gotta say it then.. Omar Camar is the sensei of my sensei!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2008, 04:42 AM   #78
ken zen ichii
Location: Nasu Shiobara City
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Mannix Moya wrote: View Post
well..I gotta say it then.. Omar Camar is the sensei of my sensei!
Well in that case, be proud of your roots Mannix Moya because your Sensei's Sensei is a honorable man.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2008, 06:12 AM   #79
Enrique Antonio Reyes
Dojo: Yuugou Aikido Kaisho
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 132
Philippines
Offline
Lightbulb Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
Well in that case, be proud of your roots Mannix Moya because your Sensei's Sensei is a honorable man.
Thank you Ira for your earlier post. There is no doubt about the sense of pride and loyalty that the Manila Aikido Club/Philippine Aikikai guys feel to have been able to train with Sensei Camar.

Sensei Camar is my Sensei and you have my sincerest gratitude for recognizing his legitimacy in Aikido.

One-Aiki,

Iking
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2008, 06:20 PM   #80
ken zen ichii
Location: Nasu Shiobara City
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Enrique Antonio Reyes wrote: View Post
Thank you Ira for your earlier post. There is no doubt about the sense of pride and loyalty that the Manila Aikido Club/Philippine Aikikai guys feel to have been able to train with Sensei Camar.

Sensei Camar is my Sensei and you have my sincerest gratitude for recognizing his legitimacy in Aikido.

One-Aiki,

Iking
Hello

I dont know if Sensei Camar still remembers me, I met him at the late Master Rafael Restons, ManJuKa Dojo in Angeles City when I was still in the philippines about 16 years ago.
Can you send him my Greetings and Respect as well. Tell him that Ira Francisco Watanabe,
Son of Guerrero Watanabe Francisco of Wado Ryu Karate Do from Angeles City is sending respect.
Thanks and Godspeed.

Ira.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2008, 08:56 PM   #81
ken zen ichii
Location: Nasu Shiobara City
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20
Japan
Offline
Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Hello,

Got some updates for all the members of the Defenders Aiki Do Federation under Sensei Rolando Dela Cruz.
Erwin Astorga, a member of the defenders Aiki Do, is presently a Deshi at the Nasu Shiobara City Branch
of the Ai KI Kai here in Japan.
Check the forum for "Filipino Aikido Ka in Japan".

Last edited by ken zen ichii : 11-13-2008 at 09:02 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 03:37 AM   #82
Mannix Moya
 
Mannix Moya's Avatar
Dojo: Quezon City Aikido Club
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 37
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
Well in that case, be proud of your roots Mannix Moya because your Sensei's Sensei is a honorable man.
I'm sure he is, though he doesn't know me personally either.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 04:34 AM   #83
Enrique Antonio Reyes
Dojo: Yuugou Aikido Kaisho
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 132
Philippines
Offline
Thumbs up Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
Hello

I dont know if Sensei Camar still remembers me, I met him at the late Master Rafael Restons, ManJuKa Dojo in Angeles City when I was still in the philippines about 16 years ago.
Can you send him my Greetings and Respect as well. Tell him that Ira Francisco Watanabe,
Son of Guerrero Watanabe Francisco of Wado Ryu Karate Do from Angeles City is sending respect.
Thanks and Godspeed.

Ira.
Hi Ira, I will send your regards through email. I have not been training at the main dojo recently. Thank you also for the updates. Sensei Dundee Santos, A senior blackbelt of Sensei Camar has recently signed up here in Aikiweb. I hope that you run into him in one of the forums as well.

All the best.

One-Aiki,

Iking
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 03:46 AM   #84
ken zen ichii
Location: Nasu Shiobara City
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Hi, I have seen the copy of the certificate signed and sealed by O sensei and the ni dai me kai cho (Kisshomaru), that was issued to the Manila Aiki Do Club. I do believe that this certificate surpasses all the accreditations of the other organization since it was sealed by the originator himself.
Maybe the Manila Aiki Do Club did not continued or maintained their affiliations with the Aiki Kai but that doesn't mean that they no longer practice the style. By heart and by spirit, they are still Aiki Kai and nobody, not even the so called Aiki Kai affiliated groups can take that away from them. An affiliation can be achieve by paying the required amount set by any organization.
I was able to have a conversation with one of the examiners of the Aiki Kai here in Japan and mentioned to him about Sensei Camar and the
problem of the Aiki Do world in the Philippines. He told me that the only persons that the Aikikai sent to the Philippines was Sensei Tohei, during Sensei Camar's early times and another one whom I
wont mention the name because of the possibility that other groups in the Philippines will take the opportunity to use that paersons name and again claim to be this and that.
One thing for sure, the name of the Japanese Aikido Ka that the Aiki Kai groups in the Philippines are claiming to be the person sent by the Aiki Kai were not mentioned during my conversation with the
Aiki Kai examiner. And when I mentioned some Japanese names to him He nodded and said. "Ano Aiki Do Ka tachi no namae wa kita koto nai desu. Tabun Aiki Kai no sensei janai ne" (I have never heard of those Japanese Aiki Do Ka's names, perhaps they are not official Aiki Kai Sensei's.

Hi to Iking and his friends.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 09:02 AM   #85
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Aikikai Hombu, led by Moriteru Ueshiba, has been sending its shihan and shidoin to the Philippines nearly every year since the early 1980s. You need their names too? It is the Camar group that chooses not to attend when these Japanese teachers from Hombu (Yokota, Yasuno, Endo, Sugawara, Kobayashi, Fujita, Seki and many others) come here to give seminars. And Filipinos from the Aikikai affiliated federations have gone and trained in Hombu Dojo under these teachers and others. I am sure even your Japanese friend knows who Seishiro Endo is.

There is no question that Manila Aikido once had an affiliation with Hombu. Just as there is no question that it no longer has an affiliation with Hombu. In itself, it's not a big deal. Training is training. Affiliation in itself is no indication of quality. As I am sure Doshu himself would say.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 07:11 PM   #86
ken zen ichii
Location: Nasu Shiobara City
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Yes there are instructors being sent by the 合気会本部 every year but only to conduct seminars to be able to correct the moves of every Aiki Kai members. 横田,安野,遠藤,菅原, 小林,藤田, 関, その他の先生方 were all sent to conduct seminars, which we Japanese call KORYU here in japan.
When I mentioned that there were only two persons sent by the 本部, that was to set up or organize the Aiki Kai Philippine branch. Not just to conduct seminars.
But in fairness to Mr. Raul Rodrigo, He is the only one in this conversation who is not a MAC member, admitted that Camar Sensei and his group were affiliated with the Aiki Kai its just that they did not maintained their affiliation. "There is no question that Manila Aikido once had an affiliation with Hombu. Just as there is no question that it no longer has an affiliation with Hombu. In itself, it's not a big deal. Training is training. Affiliation in itself is no indication of quality."
Like Chan Hok Seng of the Angeles Aiki Do Club, Camar Sensei has His own reasons why.
Aiki Do is a very beautiful art. It is about harmony. Why cant all Aiki Do Ka's join hand in hand and forget about all this political non sense and rivalry? Affiliated or not, Having been trained by a Japanese sensei or not, Having a sensei who is for real or just a fictional character, being original or fake, It doesn't matter, what is important is Harmony. After all it is the real essence of Ai Ki Do right?
Godspeed to all. Sayonara.

Watanabe De Gozaimasu,
Domo Arigatou Gozaimashita. Shitsureishimasu.
(渡辺より。 どうもうありがとうございました、失礼します。)

Last edited by ken zen ichii : 11-25-2008 at 07:20 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 07:54 PM   #87
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

As far as I am concerned, there is no rivalry, Ira. I made no statements about one group being allegedly better or worse than the other. I was merely reacting to a statement that seemed to imply that the Japanese teachers we have trained under are not official Aikikai shihan (your post 84, above). They came here, they taught; we go to Tokyo to train. Hayato Ozawa shihan of Hombu (7th dan) came here in the 1990s and asked us to organize a new aikido federation, which has been active for many years.

In this thread, I have only been trying to react to certain statements by MAC members that simply aren't accurate (eg, whether Camar is an Aikikai 8th dan, or whether MAC still has a tie to Hombu). I mean no disrespect to Camar or his dojo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 01:29 AM   #88
Mannix Moya
 
Mannix Moya's Avatar
Dojo: Quezon City Aikido Club
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 37
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Raul,

Moving forward, would you know how this issue can be resolved? Meaning, what should the blackbelts of break away clubs do to be recognized by the hombu? (Assuming they want this)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 03:01 AM   #89
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Mannix Moya wrote: View Post
Raul,

Moving forward, would you know how this issue can be resolved? Meaning, what should the blackbelts of break away clubs do to be recognized by the hombu? (Assuming they want this)
Well, Hombu recognition isn't important for some people and that's fine. Training is still training. Assuming they do, then such a person can link up with an established federation, and if a good rapport is established, he can get certified, eventually taking a shodan exam under a visiting Japanese shihan.

This has actually happened several times within our federation. One of our most talented practitioners was once a combat aikido veteran, a blackbelt with his own dojo. He wanted to go back to the traditional roots and so he went through the kyu process again with our federation. Of course, he was already so good that the testing process at the kyu levels was largely a formality. Then he took his shodan exam with a Japanese shihan. He now has a yudansha passport and is a fully certified member of the Aikikai. Since he travels a lot, he can and does get recognition as dan rank holder (nidan at the moment, though he is way overdue for sandan) in any Aikikai dojo in the world.

It takes time to get recertified and it may not be worth it for some. But it may be worth thinking about for others,

Best,

R

Last edited by raul rodrigo : 11-26-2008 at 03:15 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 07:03 AM   #90
Enrique Antonio Reyes
Dojo: Yuugou Aikido Kaisho
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 132
Philippines
Offline
Lightbulb Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Mannix Moya wrote: View Post
Raul,

Moving forward, would you know how this issue can be resolved? Meaning, what should the blackbelts of break away clubs do to be recognized by the hombu? (Assuming they want this)
Hi Mannix, I believe that the best thing is as what you just said...to move forward. Raul's answer is pretty much it. Another way to move forward is what you have been doing all along (me once)... Joining open practice with other Traditional Aikido Blackbelts.

Hi Raul, I guess this has become a "vicious cycle" for all of us already. No argument really, based on roots our "style" is Aikikai but the "affiliation" will be marked independent...just a thought.

Hi Ira,

Thanks again for sharing your perspective regarding the matter. Please do keep in touch and do inform us here if ever you plan to visit our country.

One-Aiki,

Iking
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 10:22 AM   #91
Mannix Moya
 
Mannix Moya's Avatar
Dojo: Quezon City Aikido Club
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 37
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Raul,

Thanks.

Iking,

Yep, I just want have some practice every week. And I really appreciate the gesture extended by the affiliated blackbelts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 07:27 PM   #92
ken zen ichii
Location: Nasu Shiobara City
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Ohayo Gozaimasu.

Hi. First of all let us refrain from using the word break away group.
Many Japanese High Ranking Aikido Ka's resigned their position from the Aiki Kai and started their own groups. This groups are by products of Aiki Kai. Many Dojo's from around the world were granted affiliations to this Groups. Camar Sensei, in his case decided to be on the neutral side and be independent from all political conflicts, I guess.

About respect, Here in Japan, it is disrespectful to address a person with a kyoshi grade as Sensei regardless of affiliations, regardless of art (Karate Do, Ken Do, Iai Do Etc.) It is disrespectful to call them by names alone. You always put the term Sensei after his name or Sempai after the name of your seniors or plain San after the names of anybody. Only people who has high status can call a person on his or her name, like Company president, and other people who are higher than you. Also Yakuza's do not use san to other people only to their Bosses.

About a group in the Philippines, Tapondo, Can anyone who has connections with that group ask the founder why Tapondo? I do believe the name Combat Aikido is far better. Correct me if I am wrong, Tapon is tagalog for throw and Do is Japanese for way, Diba?
Just asking.

Last edited by ken zen ichii : 11-26-2008 at 07:38 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 08:23 PM   #93
Mannix Moya
 
Mannix Moya's Avatar
Dojo: Quezon City Aikido Club
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 37
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
Ohayo Gozaimasu.
Hi. First of all let us refrain from using the word break away group.
For MAC, I don't think it broke away. It just didn't renew its affiliation. When I started aikido in 2001, I naturally checked the credentials of Philippine Aikikai. At that time, we believed that the 8th DAN was given by the Hombu. It was only when I earned my black belt that the things began clearing up. IMHO, we never deviated from the style, and more importantly, the spirit of aikido. Its just that we missed the developments cascading from the hombu.

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
About respect, Here in Japan, it is disrespectful to address a person with a kyoshi grade as Sensei regardless of affiliations, regardless of art (Karate Do, Ken Do, Iai Do Etc.) It is disrespectful to call them by names alone. You always put the term Sensei after his name or Sempai after the name of your seniors or plain San after the names of anybody. Only people who has high status can call a person on his or her name, like Company president, and other people who are higher than you. Also Yakuza's do not use san to other people only to their Bosses.
What's a "kyoshi grade?"

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
Ohayo Gozaimasu.
About a group in the Philippines, Tapondo, Can anyone who has connections with that group ask the founder why Tapondo? I do believe the name Combat Aikido is far better. Correct me if I am wrong, Tapon is tagalog for throw and Do is Japanese for way, Diba?
Just asking.
Yes, TAPON is tagalog for throw. Do is Japanese for way. As to how and why Gavileno's group changed the name, I have no idea

Also, the history of Gavileno is hazy to me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 11:42 PM   #94
Cynrod
Location: Las Vegas
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 88
United_States
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

What's a "kyoshi grade?"

I think Kyoshi grade is from 7th dan rank and above before the Hanshi grade. I know the word Kyo in Kyoshi means Professor or Phylosophy, and so Kyoshi equals a Professor capable of teaching the Phylosophy of the Martial Arts.

Yes, TAPON is tagalog for throw. Do is Japanese for way. As to how and why Gavileno's group changed the name, I have no idea
Also, the history of Gavileno is hazy to me.[/quote]

I think as long as they train and practice in Aikido is what count the most. That's what O'sensei want isn't it?

It's been a while sinced I've been in the Philippines but I am planning ahead for a next year visit there. March or June maybe?

Salamat sa Lahat (Thanks to all).

Godspeed

"For The Secret That The Warrior Seeks: You Must Know That The Basic Principles Lie In The Study Of The Spirit." - Morihei Ueshiba
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 01:21 AM   #95
ken zen ichii
Location: Nasu Shiobara City
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Kyoshi Grade or Kyoshi level.

Kyoshi is Japanese for teacher. Actually it is not Sensei.
Sensei means a person who is wiser or who has more knowledge than you. Sensei is used to address a teacher, doctors, lawyers. Sen means before and sei means born, So literally translated the one who is born before you.
Kyoshi is teacher, but you will not call your teacher as kyoshi. You will still address Him as Sensei.

Hanshi and Shihan are also titles of high ranking level but again they are titles, Sensei is still the proper address and sometimes Renshi can also be used to address a person who is 5th degree above.

About respect, I brought this up because I noticed that some people in the Philippines address Camar Sensei as Camar and no sensei after or before it. As I have mentioned in #92 here in Japan We always address them as Sensei even if He is from Shin Shin Toitsu, Kokikai, Yoshinkan. A sensei is a sensei, a senior is a senior, regardless of his style or affiliations.

Hello Mannix, Regards to Iking.

Last edited by ken zen ichii : 11-27-2008 at 01:29 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 03:14 AM   #96
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

From the Tapondo International Website:
Quote:
TAPONDO comes from two words, Tapon and Pondo. TAPON means to throw and PONDO means to pin down or to lock. This is because the techniques in TAPONDO is basically throwing and locking.
As for the reason for the name change from Combat Aikido:
Quote:
By May 2000, this Filipino martial art was completely developed. The research was still going on for the name that will be to the arts itself and at the same time be part of the culture that Filipinos will be proud of. On October 28, 2000 he discovered two existing words from the Filipino dictionary. The first word is TAPON and the second word is PONDO. TAPON means to throw and PONDO to pin down or lock. If TAPON and PONDO were joined together, a new word TAPONDO came out meaning to throw and pin down at the same time. In the Filipino Dictionary, we don't have TAPONDO word that will describe this art of throwing and locking simultaneously.

TAPONDO was later defined as a Filipino method of self-defense based on the principle of non-aggressive martial arts.
http://tapondo.page.tl/Home.htm

What I have heard is that Mr. Gavileno wanted his art to be part of the curriculum of primary and secondary schools in the Philippines... the Department of Education wanted indigenous arts to be taught in schools and so having an art with a Japanese name was out of the question. Thus, the name of the art was changed to one of Philippine origin to fit this criteria.

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 03:44 AM   #97
Enrique Antonio Reyes
Dojo: Yuugou Aikido Kaisho
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 132
Philippines
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Inocencio Maramba wrote: View Post
What I have heard is that Mr. Gavileno wanted his art to be part of the curriculum of primary and secondary schools in the Philippines... the Department of Education wanted indigenous arts to be taught in schools and so having an art with a Japanese name was out of the question. Thus, the name of the art was changed to one of Philippine origin to fit this criteria.
I believe that this is pretty much the reason for the name. I honestly don't think renaming an art just because you changed or added a technique is such a good idea.

I do admire Mr. Gavileno for his drive towards creating his own niche in the local martial arts community.

Hi Mannix, I have heard personally from one of our seniors that the 8th Dan was signed by Tohei. I am guessing (this is just me now) just right before he formed his own group.

Hi Ira, I guess Sensei Camar being neutral to get rid of politics is one way of putting it. Thank you also for the bits and pieces of inputs you provide for us. Have a nice day/evening to you.

Hi Rod! God bless

Hey Cito! Pinsan! Hope to meet you soon!

One-Aiki,

Iking

Last edited by Enrique Antonio Reyes : 11-27-2008 at 03:44 AM. Reason: Additions
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 04:56 AM   #98
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,004
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Rod Lansangan wrote: View Post
What's a "kyoshi grade?"

I think Kyoshi grade is from 7th dan rank and above before the Hanshi grade. I know the word Kyo in Kyoshi means Professor or Phylosophy, and so Kyoshi equals a Professor capable of teaching the Phylosophy of the Martial Arts.
Hello,

You might be referring to the term kyoushi outside aikido or even outside the martial arts. In my experience, it is not used in aikido and is a specific job category in a school or university. The first character of kyoushi 教師 is 教, which is also read as 教える oshieru. It means to teach. It does not specifically mean professor (which is 教授 kyouju) or philosophy (which is 哲学 tetsugaku). I am a retired kyouju and have been teaching tetsugaku here in Hiroshima for nearly 30 years.

This thread is basically about people who were or are affiliated in some way to the Aikikai, but I am pretty certain that kyoushi has never been used as a teaching rank in the Aikikai. As far as I am aware, the teaching ranks are shihan 師範, shidouin 指導員, fukushidouin 副指導員. Of course, the tern sensei 先生 is used as a title, and would be used of all the various categories given above. It does not necessarily imply respect for the person, so much as respect for the tatemae (official, public, 'face' of the art or culture).

As I stated in an earlier post, I have no wish to enter into the politics of aikido in the Philippines, but I can repeat what I stated in the earlier post: at present there are no non-Japanese 8th dan holders recognized by the Aikikai.

Best wishes to all,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 06:02 AM   #99
ken zen ichii
Location: Nasu Shiobara City
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Konichiwa Goldsberry San,

I see that you are now here in Japan.
I dont know much about other Aikido Dojo or about the system that they use in hiroshima in general.

I was in Hiroshima last month (Mazda Plant). My work is about plant engineering and I specialize in environmental kind of stuffs. I travel a lot
wherever there is a need for expertise that is. I was in Hiroshima for a week and I surely had difficulties understanding the local dialect.

Back to kyoushi thing, Yes I was referring to that kyoushi but here in the Kanto region, Kyoushi is not limited to schools alone. They also use it in Martial arts specially Kendo and Karate Do and I've seen some
Aikido Kyoushitsu wherein the Heads title is neither Kan Cho nor Dojo Cho but kyoushi.
About the politics in Philippine Aiki Do, I am not into contesting any body's grade but I am just wondering how come the affiliated groups
looks down to independent groups.

About Hiroshima, very beautiful place, I've seen the Genbaku Dome and other places. I stayed in a hotel near the dome.

well any way nice to meet you, even just in this forum, Godspeed.

Ira Watanabe
CEO/President
Watanabe Systems Co.
渡辺 暖羅
代表取締役社長
ワタナベシステムズ商会
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 06:57 AM   #100
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,004
Japan
Offline
Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Komban wa, Watanabe-san,

Many thanks for your post. I give a few more comments, just to clear up any misunderstanding.

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
Konichiwa Goldsberry San,
PAG. Actually, my surmane is spelt Goldsbury.

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
I see that you are now here in Japan.
PAG. Yes, I have been living here for nearly 30 years, as I stated in my post.

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
I dont know much about other Aikido Dojo or about the system that they use in hiroshima in general.
PAG. Hiroshima University is a former national university and I suspect that the job categories are the same in all the former national universities. So there is not a general system here. As for aikido, I was referring to the Aikikai Hombu and affiliates.

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
I was in Hiroshima last month (Mazda Plant). My work is about plant engineering and I specialize in environmental kind of stuffs. I travel a lot
wherever there is a need for expertise that is. I was in Hiroshima for a week and I surely had difficulties understanding the local dialect.
PAG. I can understand your difficulties with Hiroshima-ben. Do you know many members of the Philippine community here?

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
Back to kyoushi thing, Yes I was referring to that kyoushi but here in the Kanto region, Kyoushi is not limited to schools alone. They also use it in Martial arts specially Kendo and Karate Do and I've seen some
Aikido Kyoushitsu wherein the Heads title is neither Kan Cho nor Dojo Cho but kyoushi.
PAG. Is this for dojo in the Aikikai? Given the number of titles for teacher in Japanese, I would not be surprised if some dojo sekininsha have used the term, but I do bot think it is general within the Aikikai.

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
About the politics in Philippine Aiki Do, I am not into contesting any body's grade but I am just wondering how come the affiliated groups looks down to independent groups.
PAG. My only direct experience of meeting Philippine aikidouka is at the IAF Congres, when we meet members of PAPA. In the aikido world, which is small, comparatively new, and rather inward-looking, independent groups tend to imply break-away groups.

Note that I am not stating that to break away is bad: it might be necessary, or even inevitable. Too often, people like to pretend that the Japanese martial arts, especially non-competitive ( = 'peaceful') arts like aikido, are a seamless web of harmony. However, this does not really square with historical accuracy.

In aikido, or aiki-budo, many of the early deshi of Morihei Ueshiba established their own organizations on the iemoto model--and the Founder maintained links with these deshi, even though they were no longer affiliated to the Aikikai. The Aikikai, on its part, in the past has demonstrated a lack of sensitivity for important cultural issues. It has had too narrow a 'mental framework' and has tried to force all overseas organization into this tight framework. This never works--and I think the present Doshu is coming to understand this. Thus, there is far more emphasis placed on Aikikai groups talking to each other and training with each other. In some countries this means creating an umbrella organization where everyone has a respected place. This is now happening: but in other countries it is still too early--the weight of past memories is too heavy.

Quote:
Ira Watanabe wrote: View Post
About Hiroshima, very beautiful place, I've seen the Genbaku Dome and other places. I stayed in a hotel near the dome.

well any way nice to meet you, even just in this forum, Godspeed.

Ira Watanabe
CEO/President
Watanabe Systems Co.
渡辺 暖羅
代表取締役社長
ワタナベシステムズ商会
PAG. Well, when you come again, you should look me up and we can meet and talk over dinner. My dojo is in Higashi-Hiroshima City.

Best wishes,

PAG

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 11-27-2008 at 06:59 AM.

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Long Island Asian Studies Center - Classes: Aiki Budo/Chi Gong/Tai Chi, Author of: Searching For O'Sensei



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikikai Pioneers in Europe Demetrio Cereijo General 10 02-16-2007 06:12 AM
Aikikai: Style or organisation? Fred26 General 10 03-31-2005 10:18 AM
May 29th at Florida Aikikai mantis Seminars 5 06-02-2004 03:33 PM
Arlington Aikikai Summer Camp Featuring Yoshiko Shindo Sensei, 6th Dan - June 2004 Gareth Hatch Seminars 0 04-24-2004 12:43 AM
Seminar/Event: Aikikai Malaysia 30th Anniversary Seminar AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 09-17-2001 02:14 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:09 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate