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Old 02-19-2006, 12:52 AM   #1
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
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Lightbulb "Why We Fight:" the movie

Why is America so militarized? Or, why does the US fight so much? (short answer...it's good for business).

Watch this fascinating and well-done film on the military-industrial complex (film length: 90 min...worth it!)

WHY WE FIGHT

Thoughts?
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Old 02-19-2006, 06:35 AM   #2
Mark Uttech
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

A good answer could be found in the film: "Lord of War"
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:36 PM   #3
Neil Mick
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

The answer already IS found in the film.
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:51 PM   #4
Mark Uttech
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Singling out one country, i.e., America, is not a good idea.
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:33 PM   #5
Neil Mick
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
Singling out one country, i.e., America, is not a good idea.
With respect, Mark...these one-liner's aren't doing you any good. The movie is about America's pre-occupation to go to war.

NOT Indonesia...NOT Iceland...etc.

So, sit back, spend a good 90 min watching the movie...THEN come back and talk about "good ideas"...whattaya say?
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Old 02-23-2006, 12:32 PM   #6
Neil Mick
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

(bump)...OK...one at a time...stop pushing! I know you're all too stunned by the revelations in this movie, but even a few words on your perspective, would be nice.

(for those of you just coming into this thread: just click on the link, supplied in post #1)
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Old 02-25-2006, 04:58 AM   #7
Mark Uttech
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

A propaganda film is still a propaganda film.
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Old 02-25-2006, 11:55 AM   #8
mj
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
A propaganda film is still a propaganda film.
Well if you've seen it you're entitled to that view.

If you haven't then you pretty much sound like propoganda yourself.

Which is it?

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Old 02-25-2006, 02:20 PM   #9
Neil Mick
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Quote:
Mark Johnston wrote:
Well if you've seen it you're entitled to that view.

If you haven't then you pretty much sound like propoganda yourself.

Which is it?
Yes, Mark Uttrech: I'd like to know that answer, as well. You've spent 3 one-liner posts pooh-pooh'ing the theme of the thread...have you even bothered to watch the film, before dismissing it as propaganda?
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Old 02-25-2006, 08:07 PM   #10
Mark Uttech
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Although aikidoka should be aware of the world situation, there's a place where you can't go beyond the boundaries of your own self.
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Old 02-26-2006, 12:35 AM   #11
Neil Mick
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
Although aikidoka should be aware of the world situation, there's a place where you can't go beyond the boundaries of your own self.
Although aikidoka should be aware of the subject of the thread before they pontificate generalities...nonetheless, some go where few dare to tread (or type).

Or,

The road to one-liner's is often pockmarked with potholes of empty platitudes.

Last edited by Neil Mick : 02-26-2006 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 02-26-2006, 06:39 AM   #12
Mark Uttech
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

This thread is another example of why we fight; we take a side and stick to it. I am just as much an example of that as anyone else as long as I stick to it and have it stuck to me. This thread looked to me as an attempt to generalize war, why war happens ("it's good for business"), as well as an attempt to demonize the United States. I did attempt to watch the 90 minute film twice; being hearing impaired gave me an obstacle: was there audio?. When I was growing up, some horror movies didn't scare me, and friends told me that if I could have heard the sound effects I would have indeed been scared, so.... It only takes one line, or sometimes one word to open up a whole train of reflection, so that is my other excuse. My dad told me once: "Even if you have a good excuse, it is still an excuse..." In gassho,
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Old 02-26-2006, 01:52 PM   #13
Neil Mick
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
This thread is another example of why we fight; we take a side and stick to it. I am just as much an example of that as anyone else as long as I stick to it and have it stuck to me. This thread looked to me as an attempt to generalize war, why war happens ("it's good for business"), as well as an attempt to demonize the United States.
Sorry, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. The US is not just another country: it's the world's only superpower. Also (as the movie made clear), the US spends more on its military budget than the next seven-largest military budgets, combined.

Finally, a quick list of all the countries that the US has invaded since WW2 (a point the film also makes) shows that we are not just another country with a military budget: going to war is our usual means of doing business with the world.

Rather than propaganda (of which the film was ironically named, after the WW2 propaganda film "Why We Fight," by Frank Capra), I found the film to be more in line with a documentary. It's hardly provocative to discuss the military-industrial complex within the US, after all. Even Bush acknowledges America's addiction to oil, and how this shapes our foreign policy.

Quote:
I did attempt to watch the 90 minute film twice;
At last: thank you for taking the time to watch it.

Quote:
being hearing impaired gave me an obstacle: was there audio?.
Yes, Mark: the film was mostly audio...this might explain why you think it propaganda...with respect.

Quote:
When I was growing up, some horror movies didn't scare me, and friends told me that if I could have heard the sound effects I would have indeed been scared, so.... It only takes one line, or sometimes one word to open up a whole train of reflection, so that is my other excuse. My dad told me once: "Even if you have a good excuse, it is still an excuse..." In gassho,
Fair enough: thanks again for watching the film, as well as your take on it.
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:52 AM   #14
Mark Uttech
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Neil Mick, you mentioned that we would have to agree to disagree; a sandan is the beginning of wisdom. I remember preparing for my sandan test: I visited a graveyard where my ancestors were buried. I saw some yellow plastic flowers strewn about, and they looked like they were floating amongst the graves. I decided to use that image as preparation for sandan: what is a sandan? A flower floating in the graveyard.
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Old 02-27-2006, 01:08 PM   #15
mj
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

What did you think were the main points that the film was trying to put across, Mark?

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Old 03-03-2006, 12:07 PM   #16
dan guthrie
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Just a few thoughts: I haven't seen the film ( it's on the way to our "art" movie house) but I plan on seeing it now. I find it absolutely fascinating that Mark had a different take than you, Neil. Some films manipulate the emotional message in the score.
Mark, how did you "hear" the movie (apologies if I'm sounding insensitive).
I'm not one of those people who believe a country's economy is helped by war. Certain industries, i.e. Raytheon or Boeing, get a boost but government contracts are almost always a deal with the devil.
My dad worked in Silicon Valley for 30-odd years and avoided all US contracts. The requirements were ridiculously arcane, short-lived and dead-ended. It was almost impossible to break even financially and when the contract was over the people hired to fulfill it weren't usable in any civilian application.
Peace, IMHO, is usually better for business than war. The post-Cold War peace was a positive boon for Bill Clinton.
WWII was an exception to the rule mostly because of the depression. I don't think WWI, the Korean War, Vietnam or Reagan's military build up were good for the economy. Reagan benefited from Paul Volcker's 20% interest rates during the Carter presidency.
Neil, have you ever read anything by the late Colonel Hackworth?
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Old 03-03-2006, 03:51 PM   #17
Mark Uttech
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Dan, I didn't 'hear' the movie at all, the third time I tried to watch it at the school library, the library monitor came over and told me I had to wear headphones (!) to watch it, so as not to disturb the others. I wore the headphones to please him, and tried to decipher what the movie's message was. The message I got from the film was the importance of "peace thru strength." I have no quarrel with that at all. I still have not sat through all ninety minutes of the film, I am sure another approach will appear sooner or later. I am also not a fan of the philosophy of "pre-emptive strikes." When Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, that could be called a "pre-emptive strike." In gassho
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Old 03-03-2006, 06:09 PM   #18
dan guthrie
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
Dan, I didn't 'hear' the movie at all, the third time I tried to watch it at the school library, the library monitor came over and told me I had to wear headphones (!) to watch it, so as not to disturb the others. I wore the headphones to please him, and tried to decipher what the movie's message was. The message I got from the film was the importance of "peace thru strength." I have no quarrel with that at all. I still have not sat through all ninety minutes of the film, I am sure another approach will appear sooner or later. I am also not a fan of the philosophy of "pre-emptive strikes." When Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, that could be called a "pre-emptive strike." In gassho
I was just curious. There were no closed captions?
I'm surprised you could see it in a library. It's still in theaters here. There was a 1940's film of the same name narrated by Walter Huston, I believe, could it be the old movie was the one you saw? The old one had animated maps turning black as the Axis empire grew over China and Europe.
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Old 03-03-2006, 06:58 PM   #19
Mark Uttech
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Re: "Why We Fight:" the movie

No captions. I think that is what I meant about finding another approach sooner or later. I saw it on a computer in the library. I got the website from the thread. In gassho
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