Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-09-2006, 03:53 AM   #26
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Hi all,

well my curiosity has certainly been satisfied, thanks

as usual, you all confirm that the world of Aikido is a dynamic one, and that experimentation is as important as practicing passed down forms.

Personally I am of the opinion that what works, works. Some may not like the fact that other ways of doing things, may be as effective ( maybe even more so? ), but that is not uncommon in any sphere of practice.

In my work, the use of music is very effective at 'state changing' - getting energy levels up, calming them down etc, the right sort of music at the right level can also be usefull when people work collectively on some task. I remove the music when any instruction is being given though, as I dont want to be competing for attention.
Certain Classical music e.g. Bach has been proven to increase brain capacity for understanding maths. I know that in educational circles, particularly primary levels, they are using music to great effect.

Cheers, and let the debate continue....

Mark
p.s. as I type this I am still listening to Miles Davis

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 04:11 AM   #27
white rose
Dojo: White Rose Aikikai
Location: Washington
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 40
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

If people are watching you train. How about a bit of Robbie's Let Me Entertain You, or the Manics, You Love Us.

I think there cracking tunes, oh yes Nick thought you'd be on this thread bud. Never heard of any of your bands ha.

Dont hit me again Nick I'll wash your smalls
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 06:57 AM   #28
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Really? Refused? Sigur Ros did some of the soundtrack to Vanilla Sky, by the way...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 07:33 AM   #29
Amelia Smith
 
Amelia Smith's Avatar
Dojo: Martha's Vineyard Aikido Club
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 154
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Quote:
Karen King wrote:
I attended a seminar with Chiba Sensei where he talked about how he had used disco music in a class once to try to get people to move/use their hips. I pretty sure he doesn't use it on a regular basis, but he certainly didn't seem adverse to using music.
Chiba Sensei?!?!?! I am shocked! When was this? Does anyone have a video of it?

I have trained in places where music comes through the walls from neighboring classes or restaurants, and have found it not too much of a distraction, but it doesn't add much, and I'd rather it weren't there.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 10:39 AM   #30
Eric Webber
Dojo: Aikido West Reading
Location: Reading, Pa
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 261
United_States
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

The Montreal Aikikai has (I assume they still do) a "rhythm class" where each aikidoka takes a turn beating a drum while the class does technique to the beat. I have done this on only a couple of occasions while visiting, it is very interesting in that it refocuses ones senses to another stimulus outside the norm of what we normally are aware.

...and my personal aikido soundtrack would consist of AC/DC, Audio Slave, Theory of a Deadman, Rage Against the Machine
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 11:00 AM   #31
mriehle
 
mriehle's Avatar
Dojo: New School Aikido
Location: Stockton, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 320
United_States
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

You know, oddly, liking the music is nearly irrelevant. The music I find best for training with is often music that irritates me to listen to outside the dojo. Context matters, I guess.

Music that I truly like to listen to can be a huge problem to have playing in the dojo. I'm pretty much the definitive Led Zeppelin fan. I can still watch The Song Remains the Same and enjoy every minute of it. But if The Mighty Zep is playing during an Aikido class it's just distracting. I listen to the music instead of training.

Hmm....maybe I need to train to Zep in order to work on discipline...

I find trance music, a form that until recently I had largely ignored, to be the best to train to. I like the music in any case (which came as a surprise to me), but it isn't my favorite thing to listen to. There are other forms that also work well that I just can't listen to outside of a training context, e.g., certain types of jazz.

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 12:21 PM   #32
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Somehow the idea of training to the Gateful Dead or Irish Fiddle is just Wrong....but so is the idea of training to the Hokey Pokey, but thats where you find out it really IS what its all about.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 02:22 PM   #33
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 588
United_States
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

lol, Jo.

I train to music at home...mostly jazz lately.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 02:42 PM   #34
James Kelly
Dojo: Glendale Aikikai
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 109
United Nations
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

I used to practice Zen at a school that shared a wall with the Jim Henson studios. Just try to calm your mind with Muppet music piped in... It's not easy being serene.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 05:09 PM   #35
Lan Powers
Dojo: Aikido of Midland, Midland TX
Location: Midland Tx
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 659
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

We shared a wall with a spanish church that played live music during their services....poorly I might add. It didn't seem beneficial in any way. Maybe if it was played better, but I just found it distracting.
I often think/sing under my breath as I did fighter practice in the SCA to control my breathing but I haven't applied that to randori. (Aikido trains the breathing in better ways I think.)
For my .02
Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2006, 05:31 PM   #36
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Quote:
James Kelly wrote:
I used to practice Zen at a school that shared a wall with the Jim Henson studios. Just try to calm your mind with Muppet music piped in... It's not easy being serene.
Kermit me to say...priceless!

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2006, 06:52 AM   #37
Mato-san
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 290
Iceland
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

I am a musician and adore all genres of music, Aikido, I think no music has no place. Maybe other arts. I guess its a matter of preference. Who do you train with what mood you want to set. But aikido has ki energy, music also has energy and finding the harmony in the two would be near impossible. But maybee thats a challenge for all the musicians out there, you got me thinking. Good post

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2006, 08:31 AM   #38
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Ki Society has a seventeen-movement drill, Oneness Taiso, which can be done to music. It works better that way, because you don't have to count and can concentrate on flow and form. But the approved music for this purpose is...is...well, to this Western ear it's "The Smurf Christmas as the Mall," to be honest. Our teacher tends to close the door when she plays it, because it's just embarrassing.

I recently discovered that Oneness Taiso works equally well to the tune of "The Banana Boat Song" and I'm waiting for the proper moment to spring this discovery on my seniors. In the meantime, that's how I do it when I'm by myself. (It has the additional advantage that it can be sung, which the approved music can't.)

I don't feel that it's necessary to be serious every moment in the dojo. Laughter is one of the things that attracted me to aikido. Quite a few of the very senior people bring humor to the mat too--at Winter Camp Shibata sensei and Yamada sensei made us laugh many times, and I would never consider either of them less than serious about their aikido.

Mary Kaye
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2006, 12:06 PM   #39
Jorx
Dojo: Pärnu Aikidoclub Singitai
Location: Pärnu, Estonia
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 322
Estonia
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

We have music in class (bjj/mma). Mind that it very much affects how people train/spar. We usually NEVER have agressive music (heavy rock, metal) during groundfighting sparring - it pumps ppl up and they start spazzing and injury risk goes up. However we do it when boxing and sometimes Vale Tudo when people need "a kick".
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2006, 03:19 PM   #40
ikkitosennomusha
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 241
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Quote:
Justin Thomas wrote:
never heard of that before in any martial art, dont quite like the idea myself.

I am going to have to agree 100%. Music should not be a factor that students get conditioned to. Pretty soon they will be on the street, someone attacks them and their initial response would be "Darn, I need some music to perform". Just a thought.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2006, 03:37 PM   #41
Michael O'Brien
Dojo: Nashville Aikikai
Location: Nashville, Tn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 288
United_States
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Quote:
Brad Medling wrote:
I am going to have to agree 100%. Music should not be a factor that students get conditioned to. Pretty soon they will be on the street, someone attacks them and their initial response would be "Darn, I need some music to perform". Just a thought.
Couldn't the opposite be said as well? If you only get used to training in a quiet, serene, peaceful dojo environment then in the mall, a parking lot, a bar, etc the student will have to go "WAIT! Everyone step back and give me room, and be very quiet so I can focus on seeing the attack coming?"

Proper training instills good instintive techniques in the mind and body, period. If music helps achieve that goal then it becomes a useful training tool.

Harmony does not mean that there are no conflicts,
for the dynamic spiral of existence embraces both extremes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2006, 07:14 PM   #42
ikkitosennomusha
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 241
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Quote:
Michael O'Brien wrote:
Couldn't the opposite be said as well? If you only get used to training in a quiet, serene, peaceful dojo environment then in the mall, a parking lot, a bar, etc the student will have to go "WAIT! Everyone step back and give me room, and be very quiet so I can focus on seeing the attack coming?"

Proper training instills good instintive techniques in the mind and body, period. If music helps achieve that goal then it becomes a useful training tool.

I knew this would come up and you are right but, I feel there are plenty distractions in a dojo to overcome without the use of music. Besides, as sensei, I don't want to give directives while competing vocally with a stereo. During group practice, there is enough thumping of the mats and people making ki noises.

Next thing you know, people will come in and see aikidoka doing movements that look like ballet to them with the accompanyment of music and get the vibe it must be a new age billy blanks aerobic, tai chi kind of place.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2006, 05:26 AM   #43
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Quote:
Brad Medling wrote:
Next thing you know, people will come in and see aikidoka doing movements that look like ballet to them with the accompanyment of music and get the vibe it must be a new age billy blanks aerobic, tai chi kind of place.
Heaven forbid, we wouldn't want that would we??

When I first asked the question at the head of this thread, I had absolutely no idea of the extent of the use of music in the dojo. As I said, I do not use it, and have not experienced it.

I am pleasantly surprised to find so much open-ness to it's use in the dojo, and the variety of ways that it can usefully be deployed.

I think those who do not like the idea of music being used in the 'martial arts - serious self defence' setting, are slightly missing the point and are not thinking of the history of the use of music and Martial/Military life.
Music has been used for centuries, throughout many different cultures to put warriors into the right frame of mind to go out and do the things that they have to do - kill or be killed. It has been used to put fear into the enemy - Scottish bag-pipers come to mind. It even served to provide a backdrop for the Vietnam war that somehow defined the 'madness' of it all.

Where I practice, we are on the first floor of a Community Centre, and occasionally during the evening class, there may be a band practicing downstairs or sometimes there's a disco (whoops that shows my age )). We just smile, and continue to practice as we always do.

Music is one of the great joys of life, it brings people together, I can't imagine that there wouldn't be a place for it in the world of Aikido.

Cheers

Mark,
p.s at the moment listening to Nils Petter Molvaer

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2006, 04:12 PM   #44
dan guthrie
Dojo: Aikido of SLO
Location: Morro Bay
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 139
United_States
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Vivaldi, Bach and Handel are on four or five times a month for the whole class. Once in a while our sensei turns off most of the lights and we do light jiu waza to taiko drums - usually at the end of class. "Kung Fu Fighting" has been used at least once.
I like it. I'd recommend it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 07:15 AM   #45
Jory Boling
 
Jory Boling's Avatar
Dojo: A.K.I.,Misakikai Dojo
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 193
United_States
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

What about that song "I've Got the Power" that that guy, Jeff Speakman, did a kata to in The Perfect Weapon.
"SNAP! I will attack and you don't want that." Great. now i can't get it out of my head.

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 01:01 PM   #46
Trish Greene
Dojo: Aikido-Kajukenbo Self Defense Center
Location: Boise
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 98
United_States
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

First of all, as a musician and an Aikidoka, I have to say that the integration of the two during practice would be very ideal for me. Music is a part of the life that surrounds you. Let me say that again MUSIC IS ALL AROUND YOU in some form or another, it has an energy and presence of its own that can very well align with ki.
I understand that it is a martial art that we are studying, with all the agression that pertains to it. But we are also studying the way of harmony, a harmony that flows and blends around our agressor, much like water around a rock.

Sorry if I am getting too ephemeral with this analogy, but they are both subjects which are dear to me.

No, we don't have music in our dojo during practice because we are all intent on listening to soft spoken Miller Sensei when he instructs. But we have it playing while we warm up. (From Japanese flute and drum to "Kung Fu Fighting" and P. Diddy depending on sensei's mood!)
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 03:21 PM   #47
jester
 
jester's Avatar
Location: Texas
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 329
United_States
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

The sound of tsugi-ashi on a canvas mat and the slap of a breakfall is music to my ears!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 05:06 PM   #48
Michael O'Brien
Dojo: Nashville Aikikai
Location: Nashville, Tn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 288
United_States
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

Quote:
Brad Medling wrote:
I knew this would come up and you are right but, I feel there are plenty distractions in a dojo to overcome without the use of music. Besides, as sensei, I don't want to give directives while competing vocally with a stereo. During group practice, there is enough thumping of the mats and people making ki noises.

Next thing you know, people will come in and see aikidoka doing movements that look like ballet to them with the accompanyment of music and get the vibe it must be a new age billy blanks aerobic, tai chi kind of place.
I was purely playing devils advocate, but only to a degree. LOL

I agree that it may not be the proper thing to do every class, and I would think it would be advisable as a general rule to have it blaring so loud as to be difficult to talk over.

However, as I previously stated, if it can be used in situations to help out then it is a valuable training tool and I am all for it.

Harmony does not mean that there are no conflicts,
for the dynamic spiral of existence embraces both extremes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2006, 10:21 AM   #49
ikkitosennomusha
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 241
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

I would like to announce that I am a virtuoso on the guitar. By the beard of Zeus I love music as much or more than most people but still I would not have it in my dojo, nor would I train in a dojo that had it. For me it is spiritual reasons. However, I am not saying that it is wrong. I think it is fine if others want to do it. I just prefer not.

I think since people are more diverse and people are divided in their opinions, it is best not to have it to eliminate the issue of whether someone is comfortabe or uncomfortable.

Off topic, what I have always believed in and could never get a sensei to do, was to conduct training once in a while with everyone wearing their everyday, street atire. We are so used to training aikido in our element, e.g., in our hakama, keikogi, mats, etc., I feel it would be beneficial to see how the mechanics of aikido will work in a real environment so if a situation should arise, one is more aware of how things will be outside the dojo. Do I make sense? hope so, hehehehe
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2006, 04:47 AM   #50
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Music in the Dojo?

'Off topic, what I have always believed in and could never get a sensei to do, was to conduct training once in a while with everyone wearing their everyday, street atire. We are so used to training aikido in our element, e.g., in our hakama, keikogi, mats, etc., I feel it would be beneficial to see how the mechanics of aikido will work in a real environment so if a situation should arise, one is more aware of how things will be outside the dojo.'

Great idea, I've been wanting to do something like this for a while, I also want to play the tanto - marker pen game and the find the best weapon you can in your house game

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need advice/new guy to area's dojo YinYaker Training 17 02-15-2005 01:57 PM
Bond Street Dojo Relocation AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 6 02-01-2005 03:51 PM
Questions on Starting a New Dojo Paul Barrett Teaching 12 08-01-2004 05:46 PM
Ask not, what your dojo can do for you.. kensparrow General 23 05-20-2004 05:54 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:51 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate