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Old 02-07-2006, 03:06 PM   #26
senshincenter
 
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote:
I guarantee you that if he tried that crap in a Japanese dojo, he would be unceremoniously tossed out the front door on his chin.
Not in any Japanese dojo I ever trained in. At one dojo, for instance, taught by the head of the entire federation, they had a fourth dan that was on the mat, during the same time, within the same class, teaching his own stuff on the mat! The Shihan would teach something and he say to his own little group of insiders, "No, not like that, that's wrong - like this."

No one said anything for at least five or six years!

Even then, I think he was finally asked to leave for some other "apparent" reason.

David M. Valadez
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:08 PM   #27
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
Edwin Neal wrote:
i in no way took james' comments to represent anyone other than himself... i don't remember him 'telling' what dojo or teacher he represented... contract or not a sensei or organization does not concern itself with my life outside the dojo unless we agree to share that...
Mr. Neal,

If you didn't take "James's" comments to represent anyone other than himself, why did you ask where he practiced so you could visit...?

"what dojo do you study at? does it have a web site? where is it located? who is your sensei? just interested as i will be in texas in march..."
__________________
Edwin Neal

If he had told you and you had visited, do you think you'd have been there alone, just the two of you? It seems to me that "James" was, in fact, representing lots of other people, not just himself. He just didn't follow through.

"James" did represent himself as a member of our organization. He was given the choice to alter his behavior on the web and decided not to. If he had, he might have learned many valuable lessons.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:19 PM   #28
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
Ah yes, but the right to privacy and/or a personal/individual perspective - the right to say "this is of me and not of you" - is worth a gazillion apologies and (i.e. plus) 1,536,324 dojo.
You either missed my point or you got it right on. I'm not sure which it is. Again, I agree with what you said and by not apologizing, he exercised that right to be himself and he is welcome still to come back here. Jun hasn't banned him last time I checked but even here, he'd better be careful because you still shouldn't yell "fire in a crowded theater". Free speech and individuality is everyone's right but at some point, you may have to pay a price depending on how "free" you intend to be. Despite the fact he's out of his dojo, that was also his choice. He didn't own the dojo and they don't owe him anything. He can find a dojo that he likes or start his own and then see how many people will want a Sensei who talks like he does.

I do think you raise an interesting point as to how real all this is and who cares on how it affects anyone if it does at all. That idea though didn't help James because he was here under a fictitious name hiding his identity while he said all kinds of things but at his dojo, where there were real people around who could give him some direct feedback, he was quiet. I guess we could say that in the make believe world, he was a lion but in the real one, he was like the proverbial mouse. If all this isn't real, then he should be back here in full form soon.

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:25 PM   #29
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Hello David,

Respectfully, we obviously trained under different Japanese teachers and in different dojo. There are quite a lot of Japanese that when faced with something they don't want to deal with they have an attitude of "shigata ganai" or that can't be helped. Of course, it's a case by case basis, but not all Japanese will let you do whatever you like in their dojo.

Your statement, "In the past, I have had students hate me, attack me, betray me, want to kill me, etc. I always saw it as part of the game - so I always stuck with them. These students are today always my most loyal and my most representative of the dojo." is interesting to me. I admit, none of the things you listed would endear someone to me and allow them to stay in my dojo. The don't have to love me, agree with some things, etc. but there is a limit. Trying to knock me out, throw me on my butt every time they get their hands on me is okay. Disagree with many things, okay...but hate, betrayal, wanting to kill you...these things won't fit in my dojo. It takes all kinds, and I suspect there's a dojo somewhere out there that they'll fit in.

Chuck Clark
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:49 PM   #30
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote:
Hello David,

Respectfully, we obviously trained under different Japanese teachers and in different dojo. There are quite a lot of Japanese that when faced with something they don't want to deal with they have an attitude of "shigata ganai" or that can't be helped. Of course, it's a case by case basis, but not all Japanese will let you do whatever you like in their dojo.

Your statement, "In the past, I have had students hate me, attack me, betray me, want to kill me, etc. I always saw it as part of the game - so I always stuck with them. These students are today always my most loyal and my most representative of the dojo." is interesting to me. I admit, none of the things you listed would endear someone to me and allow them to stay in my dojo. The don't have to love me, agree with some things, etc. but there is a limit. Trying to knock me out, throw me on my butt every time they get their hands on me is okay. Disagree with many things, okay...but hate, betrayal, wanting to kill you...these things won't fit in my dojo. It takes all kinds, and I suspect there's a dojo somewhere out there that they'll fit in.
Hi Chuck,

Thanks for the reply.

Well, let's be clear. I didn't say my Japanese teachers, I said my Japanese teachers in Japan (Japanese dojo). My Japanese teachers here in the States would, I think, fit in quite well with what you are describing (not assuming yours are in the States). However, from my experience, the only thing that comes close to representing what most Americans think as THE Japanese dojo are the university clubs - which take irrelevant abuse and technical ignorance to a whole other level (in my opinion). The strict dojo, where common American (mis)understandings of the warrior code of feudal Japan are alive and well, and where technical expertise is evident, is few and far between in Japan whereas Aikido is concerned (in my experience). This was my point.

Regarding your other point: Well, I fully concede it is a matter of "to each his own." A few weeks back, one student fully let me know how shocked she was when I said I would easily take back this other ex-student that had threatened me quite handily. I told her it is a mixture of Christian ethics and Machiavellian praxis. I said I must seek and learn to love my enemies - of what good does it do me to love only those that love me or to love only in philosophical settings where all things are safe and pretty? And, as I keep my friends close, it is wiser to keep any misguided self-proclaimed enemies closer. However, under both of these things, for me, is an idea that someone else has already mentioned - that Budo is about the cultivation of the Self. This, for me, assumes then (as I stated earlier) we are supposed to initiate our training in a less than perfect state. How less than perfect is a matter of capacity in regards to a teacher's willingness and/or skill. That's why, for me, I'd probably have more respect if the teacher in question just said, "Hey, I don't want to teach you," rather than, "Because you did "x" and won't do "y," I will not do "z"." If it is too much work to take an ignorant person into higher states of wisdom, or if one simply does not want to bother with such labors, in my opinion, he/she as teacher should simply just say so. Well, that's how I see things anyways - especially when I tell someone, "The dojo cannot really address your needs at this time. Please try again later for membership when either the dojo can address your needs and/or when you have less of them."

One should be polite regardless of being direct.

thanks,
david

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:49 PM   #31
Michael O'Brien
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Re: Regarding James Smith

It was brought up that "James" should have been cut some slack in his poor posting style because of him being an aiki-newbie. That is crap. It doesn't take any training whatsoever in Aikido to treat people with common courtesy and respect. He chose to be rude and confrontational for whatever reason, but it wasn't because he was a newbie Aikido student.

Also, regarding his reflecting poorly on his dojo and then having the right to kick him out for it. I can sit here and make claims to have affiliation with any dojo I choose and badmouth the dojo, the instructors, etc. and "reflect poorly on them". It takes only a slight amount of common sense in such a case to look at the source and determine if you think it is a reliable source. I never once thought a negative thought about the dojo or instructors "james" claimed to have association with. If there were 4, 5, 10 or more students all from the same dojo behaving in a boorish manner then perhaps there is an issue in that dojo; But one inexperienced student spouting off at the mouth should be viewed as what he is. One inexperienced student who could have benefited greatly from someone with more experience viewing him as a project to undertake instead of a problem to get rid of.

*drops .02 in the bucket*

Harmony does not mean that there are no conflicts,
for the dynamic spiral of existence embraces both extremes.
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:56 PM   #32
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
Michael O'Brien wrote:
It was brought up that "James" should have been cut some slack in his poor posting style because of him being an aiki-newbie. That is crap. It doesn't take any training whatsoever in Aikido to treat people with common courtesy and respect. He chose to be rude and confrontational for whatever reason, but it wasn't because he was a newbie Aikido student.

Also, regarding his reflecting poorly on his dojo and then having the right to kick him out for it. I can sit here and make claims to have affiliation with any dojo I choose and badmouth the dojo, the instructors, etc. and "reflect poorly on them". It takes only a slight amount of common sense in such a case to look at the source and determine if you think it is a reliable source. I never once thought a negative thought about the dojo or instructors "james" claimed to have association with. If there were 4, 5, 10 or more students all from the same dojo behaving in a boorish manner then perhaps there is an issue in that dojo; But one inexperienced student spouting off at the mouth should be viewed as what he is. One inexperienced student who could have benefited greatly from someone with more experience viewing him as a project to undertake instead of a problem to get rid of.

*drops .02 in the bucket*
Good point.

Yeah - I think the state of a dojo's bathroom tells you more about a dojo than one student. A senpai of mine went to this famous Shidoin's dojo. He didn't stay to train as deshi. I asked him why - with this dojo being so close to his new home. He said, "The bathrooms were worse than a gas station's bathroom. If the bathrooms look like that, somewhere, something is wrong in the dojo."

Yet, again, many folks long to train at this dojo, dirty bathrooms and all. I imagine they'd still be pissed off at J. Smith however.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:57 PM   #33
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
One should be polite regardless of being direct.
I agree David, one hundred percent. I, for one, can love my enemies from a distance if necessary. Respectful behavior should be part and parcel with all behavior. If anyone disrespects their enemies, it immediately becomes a great tool for the strategist.

I, certainly, have "James" interests at heart, but at the same time, there are a lot of other people that also have interests that need looking after that have been around for a long time and, presumably, what "James" would like to learn is some of the things he sees in this group of people. Both must be willing to "fit" within reason.

Chuck Clark
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:16 PM   #34
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Hi Chuck,

That is the thing, isn't it? Within "reason." You are right. Thanks for pointing this out.

Yet, "reason" is so personal. One has to decide, of course, one has to have some sort of decision making process, but it remains arbirtary - purely subjective - no matter how "objective" or "reasonable" we may seem to appear, no matter how long or convulted our decision making process may be. I guess that is my point - and it can only be my point - that's the point. lol I'm sure you are getting what I am trying to say.

The following is tying in for me here...

The other day, my mom was telling me of my sister (older than I) and how she is planning on going skiing with her friend - the two families going together. My sister's friend had her son killed in an accident a couple years back - my nephew's best friend (3rd grade). Since then, her marriage broke in divorce, she had become addicted to drugs, and she's tried to commit suicide. My mom was worried, is worried, to have this friend around my sister's son - her grandson, my nephew. My mom feels this friend is getting too attached to my sister's son now that her son of the same age is gone. My mom sees her as a risk. I told my mom, a long devout Catholic, "This is your daughter's friend, with all that she has suffered, do you expect your daughter to abandon her now? Should not a friend be there when a friend is down and out and not just when they are up and in?" My mom said, "Yes, but it is dangerous." It made me think (and eventually say): "To follow Christ, to walk the Path, to practice real love and real compassion, is always dangerous. In fact, we know these Ways by the danger that marks them - so much so that we may know we have strayed by the safety and by the lower levels of risk that have returned to us."

Well, I'm just thinking out loud here - no point in listening.

You are always very kind and I am always very thankful.
d

David M. Valadez
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:18 PM   #35
Derek Gaudet
 
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
I do think you raise an interesting point as to how real all this is and who cares on how it affects anyone if it does at all. That idea though didn't help James because he was here under a fictitious name hiding his identity while he said all kinds of things but at his dojo, where there were real people around who could give him some direct feedback, he was quiet. I guess we could say that in the make believe world, he was a lion but in the real one, he was like the proverbial mouse. If all this isn't real, then he should be back here in full form soon.
Indeed... It's funny, all this time he was talking through a made up identity. Perhaps saying the things he couldn't say as himself... But if we look at it, he was hiding his identity, and in the same instance any connection with the dojo he "claimed" to be part of. If people were incredibly offended they would have went to his dojo or contacted it (I'm sure someone must have), seen there was no James Smith and assumed it was all a load of BS, as is with many cases. But I never really seen him talk trash about his teacher or school (granted I didn't miss any of his post, but I may have.). Indeed his choice of words were distasteful, his thought process beyond what "he thought" limited, and his honesty more then lacking, but there are two situations, he enjoyed trolling and getting a rouse out of people (In which case ignore him), or he truly didn't know what he was talking about ( In this case enlighten him). The amount of control people claim to have on one's freedom of expression confuses me. We can punish, but they don't always learn a lesson, perhaps "James" will.

Reading his post over, most annoyed me, and gave me motive to write snarky comments, but what did that do? Add a little gas to the fire. Then I sit back and think, what does it matter, it's ONE PERSON'S opinion, I never felt he represented anyone, I never even knew where his Dojo was or who his teacher was... If anything I assumed he had no teacher at all and read a lot. People should not be concerned with what others say about them, because you can't make it through life without enemies or at least a few that dislike you. Some move on some try to ruin you, but in reality their attempts usually don't succeed, people eventually get bored and move on...

As Dave has said, a lot of people go by what they think the Japanese would do... This seems to be irrational thought, because by stating "If it were a Japanese dojo... then X would happen!" Really? then does this not imply that we think all Japanese think alike? When in reality I'm quite confident that their opinions vary just as much as ours... But that's my view and I see many have been written since I started mine... So my argument has seasoned .

By the way I'm more of a "to each his own" type myself. So it was the instructors choice, right for him, maybe not others but that's how the cookie crumbles...

Last edited by Derek Gaudet : 02-07-2006 at 04:26 PM.

Kind Regards,
Derek Gaudet
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Old 02-07-2006, 05:07 PM   #36
crbateman
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Re: Regarding James Smith

David, there is a big difference between "not getting it" and trying to make a mockery of it. This person was not on here confused, looking for constructive input. That would not put him or his organization in a bad light. He was being a jackass, in order to stir up conflict. I doubt that Chiba Sensei, in spite of his above-reproach credentials, would condone this sort of disruption and disrespect from any student flying his flag. It is up to the organization to decide if they were harmed or disrespected, and they obviously decided that they were. I cannot criticize them for that. And they DID try to reason with him first, to no avail. There are many here who might be considered irreverent, but still able to participate constructively in the discussions. But this was useless and over-the-top. And his dojo didn't have him drawn and quartered, they simply told him that they had no place for his unacceptable attitude, which is certainly within their rights.
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Old 02-07-2006, 05:10 PM   #37
Edwin Neal
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Mr. Clark the answer to that question is evident in the quote you clipped "just interested as i will be in texas in march..."

i looked at james as someone who needed some guidance and instruction... others like yourself see him as a threat... what does this say about your self image? Why are you threatened by a foolish boy? Did you not have faith that your art could be applied to this situation?

"If your heart is large enough to envelope your adversaries, you can see right through them and avoid their attacks. And once you envelope them, you will be able to guide them along the path indicated to you by heaven and earth." Osensei

MY challenge to you Mr. Clark is to bring him back and 'practice' your art...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-07-2006, 05:40 PM   #38
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Some people here is overreacting and taking things too seriously. It is only a web forum.

In any case i think James needs counselling, guidance and comprension instead of being asked to leave the dojo.

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Old 02-07-2006, 05:40 PM   #39
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Mr. Neal,

One of the things "James" was saying to his instructors in the dojo was that he was concerned that some people on aikiweb that felt he was disrespectful would come to Texas looking for him and start trouble in the dojo.

I've clipped some things that may have led to that:

"Where is James did we scare him away???
…hey i miss james, trolls are an opportunity to practice my no touch throws!!!"

"i asked him where his dojo was as i will be in texas in march and was hoping to meet him, and possibly work out... do you have some info that could help me..."

"i'm just sad he hasn't been back... i miss all of his flopping and twitching... kind of like watching a trainwreck..."

"you have to be cruel to be kind in the right measure"..

"where is james? they must have locked him in the dojo for the endless attutide adjusting randori!"

Those quotes were all clipped from your messages. Since you didn't mean what he possibly inferred from these things (since you said above that you have his best interests at heart), I wonder if your advice about practicing Ueshiba Morihei's philosophy might go both ways?

There is still ongoing discussion to see if "James" wants to do his part to fit in with others at the dojo. I, too, would like to see him hang around. I certainly wouldn't be who I am today if I'd been kicked out of the dojo when I was going through adolescence. I did have to meet certain requirements of behavior though. So does he, as do we all.

Chuck Clark
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Old 02-07-2006, 05:46 PM   #40
Edwin Neal
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Re: Regarding James Smith

I am sure some of my comments could be taken in any number of ways, but it was my sincere desire to practice and visit as many dojo's as i can when i travel... You can tell James and any others that i never felt disrespected, nor did i think James was really disrespectful to anyone... just a little ignorant (ie trainwreck)... anyone taking offense about anything said on a public forum should consider what in themselves makes them feel that way...

with respect Edwin...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-07-2006, 07:29 PM   #41
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote:
I certainly wouldn't be who I am today if I'd been kicked out of the dojo when I was going through adolescence. I did have to meet certain requirements of behavior though. So does he, as do we all.
so is james a teenager? if he is , i think we should all cut him a little slack. i have a teenage son myself and sometimes he will open his mouth and i end up just shaking my head because i cant believe what i just heard.
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Old 02-07-2006, 07:53 PM   #42
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Well I read everything I could and I just don't see the infraction. I'm sorry if what I say here departs from many folks I often tend to agree with - especially if they are prone to get upset by something said here in La-La Land - to me this is just about opinions after all.

I, like anyone else, have a right to opinion and in my mind I don't expect my opinion to insult anyone and/or to reflect upon anything beyond its own utterance - not here at least. Moreover, in this case, I really think everyone has a right to an opinion here - this isn't just a matter of "X dojo did this, so its their business alone - everyone else shut up." Everyone's opinion counts here because X dojo sought to "remedy" an in-house situation in this forum - publicly.

That said: For how they felt moved to act, and because of how they chose to act, all I see is one group of folks thinking a bit too much of themselves (there's no kind way of saying that I'm afraid), such that they felt everyone reading this stuff was going to think ill of them for what someone of obvious ignorance and ill humor was saying - when in fact no one was thinking about them at all.

A little humility, a little smaller self-image, would have gone far here concerning any imagined sense of dishonor and/or insult, etc. For me, whereas I might laugh it off if someone told me they ended up training with James Smith, I might be a bit more serious if I found out someone was thinking about training at X dojo - "Oh man, those folks like to think everyone is thinking of them - be careful man, sooner or later you are going to find yourself out in the cold or else you'll find yourself working to put someone else out in the cold."

One can say this or that about this or that infraction, and how that may fit between "traditional dojo values" and humility, but when one looks at the public statement being made here - there's no way one can say one is not dealing with a bunch of folks that think everyone is thinking about them. If you want to kick someone out, if you feel a right to kick them out, then kick them out like an institution that is not so easily threatened - with discretion and without any concern for what anyone else thinks. If you want to act all-powerful, then be all-powerful. For some reason I feel compelled here to say, "Do it like a man!" But that might start another thread and end up with me being publicly discredited (which of course I wouldn't give a damn about!)

Last edited by senshincenter : 02-07-2006 at 07:58 PM.

David M. Valadez
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:07 PM   #43
Derek Gaudet
 
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Sometimes the best way is the most direct way. Well said Dave. In my opinion it should have never been brought to the forum that James was "Kicked out". There was nothing that required defence, and it only served to defend the organization's "name". Nothing more...but I digress...

Kind Regards,
Derek Gaudet
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Old 02-07-2006, 09:24 PM   #44
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Well said David. There were messages that are no longer here that, if I had said them, I would be expected to make an apology. That is all that was asked of "James", who as he said in one of his messages, is nineteen years old. Old enough to be held responsible for what he did. I and the instructors of the dojo were not worried about what anyone thought of us or the rest of the organization. Some like us and respect us and some don't, I suspect. I treat the serious discussion sites for budo on the internet as places where we maintain a certain etiquette. Some do not. I apologize for the uproar this has caused. The behavior was here and it seemed like the thing to do to let everyone that was upset know what was happening. The community that develops around a site like this is still new to us all and we have much to learn. As I said earlier, I would like the young man to continue his training if he is willing to learn to take part responsibly. It has nothing to do with trying to be Japanese, it's about human conduct and trust. Again, I apologize for the disturbance. I won't comment about this matter here again.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 02-07-2006, 09:44 PM   #45
Huker
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 63
Canada
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Re: Regarding James Smith

I agree with David Valadez. Through the good and the bad, he stuck with his students. Hats off.

Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps the reason people cry out for attention is because important figures in their lives turn their backs on them. So many are too busy or too concerned with their own lives to listen to what they have to say and to respond positively. It is so easy to just let go and forget or send them away.
The hard part is identifying and fixing the problem (not that James has one anyway).

Life is a journey. We don't all step into the dojo as perfect beings. We go there to learn. I'm sure many of you agree that training is not simply physical but also personal as well as any number of other things. Respect is something that is learned through this training.
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:09 AM   #46
Will Schutt
Location: Dallas, TX
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5
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Re: Regarding James Smith

I am one of the instructors in the dojo that "James Smith" attended. I am very disappointed in the outcome of this situation and I understand and agree with a lot of the sentiment that has been expressed here (all sides).

I encourage everyone to continue this very interesting discussion.However, not everyone knows the details of this particular situation and those details will not be divulged in a public forum by us. Please keep that in mind.

"James Smith" behaved in a manner that the dojo leadership found unacceptable (not just here on aikiweb). He was given ample chance to remedy the situation, but he chose not to do so. I think that is pretty simple, however, the devil is in the details.

To be clear, the decision not to fulfill those requirements was James's and the decision to no longer "continue extending the deadlines" was that of his instructors. No one was kicked out of anything.

That being said, we welcome anyone that wishes to visit our dojo --
http://www.jitakyoei.com


Will Schutt
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:21 AM   #47
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Hi,

I don`t see "James" as having been kicked out for breaking any kind of rule. It seems clear to me that his instructor asked him to do a kind of training (apologize and give a real name.) Knowing what I know from reading various Jiyushinkai members` writings, I think that at least partly if not wholly, the special training was for James` own benefit. He refused, so of course, he can not be considered a part of the dojo. we should remember that it is not for something he did, that he was asked to leave, it was ofr something he didn`t.

Charles
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Old 02-08-2006, 01:46 AM   #48
PeterR
 
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,059
Japan
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps the reason people cry out for attention is because important figures in their lives turn their backs on them. So many are too busy or too concerned with their own lives to listen to what they have to say and to respond positively. It is so easy to just let go and forget or send them away.
The hard part is identifying and fixing the problem
I think the primary responsibility of an instructor is to teach Aikido to his current students as a whole not to retain all comers. Beginners leave for a number of reasons - mostly by their own choice - its the way of things.

Most insturctors are not trained for and should not function as social workers.

Beginners that would be that shattered by not being accepted by your group are rare and should be pointed in the direction of professional help.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 02-08-2006, 02:03 AM   #49
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
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Re: Regarding James Smith

Quote:
Most instructors are not trained for and should not function as social workers.
totally agree, which is why I was making the clear distinction between behavior outside the dojo and inside. If the initial post of this thread had stated that the problems were with the lad in the dojo and the aikiweb mess was just the final straw, I would have had no problem.

One question did occur to me concerning the "choice" and "my dojo so my rules" posts, do these dojos have defined criteria of behavior expected outside the dojo and written disciplinary procedures? The reason I'm asking is that (and I may be in error here) an ad-hoc dismissal of a student may leave grounds for the dojo being sued. I think European law on civil rights may impinge on what you can and can't do and how, even in a single dojo and I don't know how the US freedom of speech would act. Hopefully, I'm just starting at shadows.

For the record, I'd like to thank everyone for the discussion to date, I think we've managed a surprising level of civility.
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Old 02-08-2006, 02:14 AM   #50
PeterR
 
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
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Re: Regarding James Smith

I think there are a number of behaviors outside the dojo which if I knew about would cause me to ask the person not to train - for the group and my own piece of mind. I'll leave that to your imagination.

I'll even step out on the limb here and make a generalization. The very people who demand a teacher take all comers are often very quick to demand a higher moral standard from the instructor (in fact the demand is implicit and ironic). The harmony that we talk about is not one way.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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