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Old 12-16-2009, 08:56 PM   #76
RED
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
] On the other hand That has happened a few times actually... and usually starts with something like F**K You Aikido is for P***ies" or "Aikido does not work against THIS!!!" Followed by an application of Iriminage or Atemi...followed again by "Hey!!! Thats not Aikido!"
]
Why?...just why?
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:57 PM   #77
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

Aikido doesn't fail people... people fail Aikido. (was that Oprah sounding..??. that's what I was going for!)
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:38 PM   #78
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

I've never had to use Aikido in a real life situation, hopefully I never will.

But if the time comes than I can only trust in my training to guide me through the situation.

To me Aikido is a martial art that helps both parties live to fight another day.

Connor Haberland, 1st dan.




コナーヘバーランド
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:49 PM   #79
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Why?...just why?
No reason...It's just the way life is sometimes...

William Hazen
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Old 01-09-2010, 04:35 PM   #80
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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I've never had to use Aikido in a real life situation, hopefully I never will.
I use it most everyday, and am happy to do so!
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:46 AM   #81
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

ugh... last weekend. Got attacked by a sheet of ice and had to take a breakfall..... no visible bruises but I sure have been sore all week.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:32 AM   #82
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

Ive only been training in Aikido for a year or so now. (5th kyu). I have never had to use it, I think? The family and Iwere at a ski hill a few weeks back. Walked out the door, and there was an obviously loud and drunk individual standing there doing what they do best. ( acting like an idiot). As my family was passing by, he raised his hand to us. At first it appeared threatening, but soon realized he was trying to be cool with a high five for his friends, but in our direction. I know the following sounds like alot of thoughts in a very short period of time, but it truely did happen. As said, my first thought was this was a physical threat. I wanted to side thrust kick this guy in the chops for moving towards my family like this. ( kyukido training) But my mind quickly went to controling. I thought about shomenuchi kotegaeshi and shomenuchi kokyunage. As I shuffled my youngest son away from the threatening side, I had to do nothing more. This all took place in what felt like a minute, but really was just a few seconds. No confrontation, no words exchanged, no harm, and the kids didnt even know anything was wrong, but yet I played out several senarios in my mind. WAS that Aikido? To be honest, I hope it was a direct result of my limited training. It made me feel great and calm inside, knowing that, even for a moment, I had control of my space. This just makes me want to train more. Thanks for reading my little story.
Gary
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:56 AM   #83
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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WAS that Aikido? To be honest, I hope it was a direct result of my limited training. It made me feel great and calm inside, knowing that, even for a moment, I had control of my space. This just makes me want to train more. Thanks for reading my little story.
Gary
Were your actions a result of your training? probably.

You were aware of a potential threat and you felt prepared to respond if need be. Most people would not have even recognized the threat, and if attacked, would have froze out of fear.

The best defense is awareness followed by a non-threatening neutral type of action to avoid conflict - your Aikido training can help with this. However, if it does come to the physical, your technical training may be beneficial, but you won't have time to think about - it just comes out naturally. That is why you train, to have takemasu (spontaneous) technique.

Greg
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:20 AM   #84
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

Aikido in a dojo is a bunch of exercises that are organized around mutual participation. When Uke doesn't play along, she either gets hurt or the point of the exercise is lost.

I think that this setup makes aikido metaphorically powerful. I feel more powerful because I regularly practice physical strategies for taking and holding power. This body knowledge I am building gives me the confidence to react quickly and calmly, with a balance of love and power, to things like verbal conflicts and office politics and such.

Aikido is of course also a great way to understand your own body mechanics, and how you interface with the world around you.

But I can't imagine popping off a good kotegaishi "on the street" simply because what aikido is teaching me more than anything else is that conflict is solvable without actually fighting, and because kotegaishi is an exercise.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:34 AM   #85
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

Greetings- sorry to bring up an old thread but I had to chime in.

"If uke uke does not cooperate then they get hurt". What a load of trip this is. If uke doesn't cooperate the Nage gest his ass kicked plain and simple.

After 9 years of training 5 days a week, holding a beginner's rank of shodan blah blah blah I had had enough and decided to go and test myself by attending "open mat" sessions at various dojos.

Against other "TMA" styled arts I faired quite well, let my ego build then I stepped into a judo dojo and had my ass handed to me, same thing in the boxing ring ( I was allowed all techniques and did not wear gloves) and finally MMA. Truly humbling.

I joined the MMA club and found my aikido footwork worked beautifully and was able to use wrist locks after about 6 months of training on my back. Everthing else was modified until it was it was pointed out that I was then doing textbook judo.

What annoys me is the idea that 9 years, 5 days a week and i was told well it takes 15-20 years to truly understand aikido. Bullsheep.

Don't tell me its not meant for the ring as I had the option to use any technique I chose at full force- If uke doesn't cooperate then its nage that gets hurt.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:29 AM   #86
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Greetings- sorry to bring up an old thread but I had to chime in.

"If uke uke does not cooperate then they get hurt". What a load of trip this is. If uke doesn't cooperate the Nage gest his ass kicked plain and simple.

After 9 years of training 5 days a week, holding a beginner's rank of shodan blah blah blah I had had enough and decided to go and test myself by attending "open mat" sessions at various dojos.

Against other "TMA" styled arts I faired quite well, let my ego build then I stepped into a judo dojo and had my ass handed to me, same thing in the boxing ring ( I was allowed all techniques and did not wear gloves) and finally MMA. Truly humbling.

I joined the MMA club and found my aikido footwork worked beautifully and was able to use wrist locks after about 6 months of training on my back. Everthing else was modified until it was it was pointed out that I was then doing textbook judo.
yes. but did you have Aiki?
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:49 AM   #87
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Greetings- sorry to bring up an old thread but I had to chime in.

"If uke uke does not cooperate then they get hurt". What a load of trip this is. If uke doesn't cooperate the Nage gest his ass kicked plain and simple.

After 9 years of training 5 days a week, holding a beginner's rank of shodan blah blah blah I had had enough and decided to go and test myself by attending "open mat" sessions at various dojos.

Against other "TMA" styled arts I faired quite well, let my ego build then I stepped into a judo dojo and had my ass handed to me, same thing in the boxing ring ( I was allowed all techniques and did not wear gloves) and finally MMA. Truly humbling.

I joined the MMA club and found my aikido footwork worked beautifully and was able to use wrist locks after about 6 months of training on my back. Everthing else was modified until it was it was pointed out that I was then doing textbook judo.

What annoys me is the idea that 9 years, 5 days a week and i was told well it takes 15-20 years to truly understand aikido. Bullsheep.

Don't tell me its not meant for the ring as I had the option to use any technique I chose at full force- If uke doesn't cooperate then its nage that gets hurt.
I think you took a very courageous decision to test yourself with different sport styles, congratulation! Not very many fresh shodans do it. I.e. Sokkaku Takeda also did such testing, checking various dojo across Japan. Better to train MMA and be happy then aikido and by unhappy 
My question is, as you are getting older, there are more and more young, stronger then you fighters that will kick your ass every day. What benefits you see following such Way, besides being looser which stops your ego growing?

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:59 PM   #88
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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.

What annoys me is the idea that 9 years, 5 days a week and i was told well it takes 15-20 years to truly understand aikido. Bullsheep.
Who told you that?
I heard it was 80...

MM
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:52 PM   #89
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

I think its great he's taking that path. Randy is 40+ and still holding his own in the ring. So its a great outlet, that given proper attention, would let you train for a decent amount of time.

As nagababa rightly said, it will come to a point where younger, stronger, fitter and skilled opponents will gradually edge you away even with your mounting experience and matured skills.

Since aikido trains body, mind and spirit, the elements there may be able to compensate for physical deterioration. Not saying that it'll happen to everybody, but perhaps to those who really do practice their mind and spirit as keenly as their body.

For those stuck in the physical, then I guess any art would be as good as the other.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:44 PM   #90
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Greetings- sorry to bring up an old thread but I had to chime in.

"If uke uke does not cooperate then they get hurt". What a load of trip this is. If uke doesn't cooperate the Nage gest his ass kicked plain and simple.

After 9 years of training 5 days a week, holding a beginner's rank of shodan blah blah blah I had had enough and decided to go and test myself by attending "open mat" sessions at various dojos.

Against other "TMA" styled arts I faired quite well, let my ego build then I stepped into a judo dojo and had my ass handed to me, same thing in the boxing ring ( I was allowed all techniques and did not wear gloves) and finally MMA. Truly humbling.

I joined the MMA club and found my aikido footwork worked beautifully and was able to use wrist locks after about 6 months of training on my back. Everthing else was modified until it was it was pointed out that I was then doing textbook judo.

What annoys me is the idea that 9 years, 5 days a week and i was told well it takes 15-20 years to truly understand aikido. Bullsheep.

Don't tell me its not meant for the ring as I had the option to use any technique I chose at full force- If uke doesn't cooperate then its nage that gets hurt.
If I might make a small observation. You're talking about techniques. Basically what you're saying is, "I tried doing kata in a fight and it failed."
My experience is the exact opposite. I went to Judo and they couldn't move me, not they couldn't throw me, they couldn't get me to budge an inch forward. I could literally have stood in front of them all day, this was at 3rd kyu. When you went to Judo did you do Aikido or did you play by Judo rules?

My friend was asked to demonstrate some Aikido by a Judo instructor who offered up one unfortunate student as an uke. My friend asked if he was sure, explained that it wouldn't be pleasent and all that. The Judo instructor insisted. The student went for the grab my friend let out a most deafening kiai, punched the guy full force in the face just before he took hold, applied something nikkyo-like and was about to finish the student off with a kick to the head when the instructor stopped him.
That anyone could loose to a Judoka is pushing it for me, I'm sorry. I mean literally you can run upto one of these guys and attack them with katadori tsuki and then go into sumi otoshi or tenchi nage. Try that on a 4th kyu Aikidoka and you're probably going to end up on the floor bare minimum you're going to get punched in the face.
I like Judo, I do, it's fun, it's a good workout but it just isn't a martial art, doesn't even come close. Invariably in these cases of Aikido v Judo where the Aikidoka looses the Aikidoka stands there like a lemon lets the Judoka grab them and then tries to do Aikido, as if that's what they've been trained to do. At 5th kyu in my dojo you're told not to let uke grab you, I presume the same is true in other dojo, so there's no real excuse for this. Again from about 4th kyu atemi starts becoming important, again before uke's grip is established. So again there is no excuse for this.
By 1st kyu anyone who walks up to you without covering their face should be semi-concious if not face down KO'd on the mat in a puddle of blood before they get a chance to touch you, that's what we're trained to do. Jodan tsuki shiho nage teaches this, amongst other provisional forms.

Earlier that year I decided Aikido didn't work and went to Jujutsu and wiped the floor with their dan grades, again at 3rd kyu. Between myself and my previously mentioned friend we put seven of their dan grades out of action. We entered a competition, were told to go full force because our "airy fairy Aikido doesn't work." ten minutes later they were asking us to not be so rough.

Striking arts, again, no challenge. I dash in grab something and put it into the floor, or just dash through them. There's no technique in any of this; I can't say I've used irimi nage or ikkyo or any other technique. Sometimes it's as simple as running past them and grabbing their head as I pass by.
The important thing is that Aikido has given me the body power, posture, timing and knowledge of body mechanics so that technique is irrelevent. Aikido is not the group of techniques taught in the dojo, Aikido is the technique.

I don't buy all this, "It takes ten years" crap. It takes two to three if you have a competant teacher and you have an understanding of how Japanese martial arts are taught i.e. you know you're being taught kata rather than being taught techniques. Ultimately Aikido is so simple it can't fail.
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:55 AM   #91
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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The student went for the grab my friend let out a most deafening kiai, punched the guy full force in the face just before he took hold, applied something nikkyo-like and was about to finish the student off with a kick to the head when the instructor stopped him.
LOL. that is hilarious. And evil too.
hmm...I'm not sure that was right..

poor uke..

well, i guess he's just lucky that your buddy didn't pull out a switchblade and finish him off...
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:05 PM   #92
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Stuff.
Nonsense. I get the feeling if the Judoka knew what this Aikido fellow was going to try. (IE striking allowed) things would have been much different. The fact that your 'friend' tried to kick a subdued opponent reeks of thuginess.

Anyone can win an ambush. Actually explain the rules, get someone who know's some striking as well. And see how you actually fair.

To an extent it's true my Aikido failed not Aikido as an art. However when one is studying an art where one's teachers and training partners likely have the same failure. That criticism starts to break.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:26 PM   #93
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

I'm seeing that different people are having different experiences when it comes to testing their Aikido against other arts.
I'm thinking the difference might lie in the individual? Not Aikido?

MM
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:48 AM   #94
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
I'm seeing that different people are having different experiences when it comes to testing their Aikido against other arts.
I'm thinking the difference might lie in the individual? Not Aikido?
Wow! Whodathunkit???
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:03 AM   #95
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Anyone can win an ambush. Actually explain the rules, get someone who know's some striking as well. And see how you actually fair.
Rules?

David Henderson
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:57 AM   #96
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Nonsense. I get the feeling if the Judoka knew what this Aikido fellow was going.
Reality check: Even if he did tell the Judoka exactly what he was about to do there's nothing in the Judoka's training that would allow him to deal with it.
Continuing the reality check, no-one tells the other guy what's about to happen in an "excuse me Mr Mugger I'm going to punch you in the face, are you ready for it?" kinda way. What happened was the reality of a fight between Aikido and Judo and Jujutsu and any other art I've seen Aikido put up against.

Getting ambushed IS fighting. Muggers don't tap you on the shoulder and say "excuse me, I'm about to mug you, please get into your fighting stance, oh by the way here are the rules."
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:59 AM   #97
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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", please get into your fighting stance, oh by the way here are the rules."
But they do do that in competitive martial arts.



I think there is a separation between aikido training and competitive martial art training. Majorly. In assumption and tactics.


Competitive martial arts are for title and entertainment. Boxing, MAA, competitive BJJ and Judo... They are sports.(some of which are even Olympic sports.) I don't see Aikido like that. It was made to work outside of the "no below the belt" and "no small joint locks" rules.

I'm not gonna throw aikido out the window because I can't wipe the floor with a boxer.
Nor would I think a British General was a poor strategist if he couldn't defeat me in a game of chess...


And if you can wipe the floor with a boxer.. more power to you.

Last edited by RED : 03-11-2010 at 12:13 PM.

MM
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:18 PM   #98
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
But they do do that in competitive martial arts.

I think there is a separation between aikido training and competitive martial art training. Majorly. In assumption and tactics.

Competitive martial arts are for title and entertainment. Boxing, MAA, competitive BJJ and Judo... They are sports.(some of which are even Olympic sports.) I don't see Aikido like that. It was made to work outside of the "no below the belt" and "no small joint locks" rules.

I'm not gonna throw aikido out the window because I can't wipe the floor with a boxer.
Nor would I think a British General was a poor strategist if he couldn't defeat me in a game of chess...

And if you can wipe the floor with a boxer.. more power to you.
Brilliant! Thanks for the reality check.

William Hazen
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:00 PM   #99
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Brilliant! Thanks for the reality check.

William Hazen
...holy crap, some one just agreed with me

*puts a feather in her cap*

MM
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:55 PM   #100
John A Butz
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Re: Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

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Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
My friend was asked to demonstrate some Aikido by a Judo instructor who offered up one unfortunate student as an uke. My friend asked if he was sure, explained that it wouldn't be pleasent and all that. The Judo instructor insisted. The student went for the grab my friend let out a most deafening kiai, punched the guy full force in the face just before he took hold, applied something nikkyo-like and was about to finish the student off with a kick to the head when the instructor stopped him.
Respectfully Alex, this is showing ignorance of the concept of Rules of Engagement. Yes, yes, I know the "real world has no rules" and I won't debate that point. But even in the real world there are limitations to the use of force. You can NOT deploy as much force as you want against a person who is attacking you unless circumstances warrant it. Obviously, RoE is a lot stricter for police and miltary personnel than for civilian slobs like me, but even so, had the incident you describe here occured on the street, I think your friend would have been the one charged with assualt.

Frankly, even within the dojo, had this happened to me without my consenting to you using strikes, I would have called the police and this would have ended up being taken to court as a case of assualt.

Now, had it been discussed ahead of time that the aikidoist had every intention to use strikes, and that the judoka was allowed to do that same in return, and that contact would be hard and potantially dangerous, and both agreed to it, well then it is the judoka's own damn fault for getting hit in the face.

However, if I had been asking for a reasonably friendly exchange of information in the form of a demo or even randori, and your friend went about slugging me, knocking me down, and kicking my head in without making sure I was game for that level of intensity, he would havebeen at fault, and potentially criminally at fault.

I have done jacketed wrestling with judo players, on their terms and using their rules, and done ok. I have grappled with wrestlers and BJJer guys on their terms and their rules and done ok. I have also been schooled by all of the above at different times too, and maybe that is because the rules got in the way. In my mind it is more likely that they were better than I, or that I needed to be better at aikido. I don't know. All I know is that I have exchanged fairly vigourous practice with a variety of people from a variety of arts without feeling the need to hurt them in order to win.

The people we train with have a reasonable expectation to go home after training without being maliciously injured. Yes, training properly with intention will result in injuries, and if you are on the mat you accept that risk. I have hurt and have been hurt by my training partners. However, those inuries occured in environements where all parties knew what was happening going in and we were willing to accept the results of our actions.

I appreciate that you and your group train hard and have martial ability. And I am glad what you do works against resistance and in a variety of venues. But that is no excuse for irresponsibile use of force.
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