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Old 06-08-2010, 05:01 AM   #1
phanhngocdi
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YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ltf6-Qqc40Y
1. I don't know what shihan Takeda were trying to demo? is it Ki or connection, proper time, etc?
2. How to develop Ki in my daily practices? Kokyu nage? mind set? etc?

Could you please expound those 2 concerns?
Thanks in advance
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:18 AM   #2
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

I think it is a fine demo of overcommitted ukes throwing themselves very prettily.

Janet Rosen
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:09 AM   #3
Gorgeous George
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

I think he's demonstrating what you need to do in order to make sure you get beat up in fights, further perpetuating the belief in some quarters that aikido is shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

The shame, the shame...
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:48 AM   #4
dps
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

Quote:
Danh Phi Ngoc wrote: View Post
2. How to develop Ki in my daily practices? Kokyu nage? mind set? etc?
You have to start your uke's training when they are young.



David
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:26 PM   #5
Gorgeous George
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
You have to start your uke's training when they are young.



David
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Brilliant.
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:32 PM   #6
sakumeikan
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

Quote:
Danh Phi Ngoc wrote: View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ltf6-Qqc40Y
1. I don't know what shihan Takeda were trying to demo? is it Ki or connection, proper time, etc?
2. How to develop Ki in my daily practices? Kokyu nage? mind set? etc?

Could you please expound those 2 concerns?
Thanks in advance
I dont know what Takeda Sensei was trying to demonstrate.I do know the Ukes were demonstrating almost like performing seals or the like at a circus.This type of Aikido performed by the Ukes and no doubt approved by the Sensei makes the Aikido community a laughing stock.No wonder we Aikidoka get bad press when this stuff is available on line.
I have practiced with people who practice soft Aikido but never at any time have I ever been exposed to such sheer nonsense [especially the no touch at 30 paces stuff]as shown in this video.
If Takeda Sensei wishes to transmit Aikido I would humbly suggest he shelves some of the stuff in the Demo and concentrates on some solid waza.I say this in good faith not to insult or denigrate this gentleman.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:16 PM   #7
Hellis
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

This video is fuel for `Bullshido `` and rightly so.

I have no idea what Takeda Sensei is trying to achieve ? I would like to ask where the hell they get people to `perform` like that ?
I would not dare to suggest to any of my dan grades to participate in such a farce... I do though wonder if after a time these teachers actually believe that this pony is real ?

Henry Ellis
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:06 PM   #8
Adam Huss
 
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Henry,
I think they do delude themselves. George's video link is an example of that. He wagered his health and money on his skill to control people with ki ai. I have seen another video where a guy said he could project energy balls that knocked people over and invited a local TV news crew to interview him live and do a demonstration on the news program's employees. Obviously both groups got embarrassed, but must have thought they were right somehow. I know people who are skilled practitioners in one art, but 'trade rank' with other hacks giving them certificates indicating they are also highly proficient in skills they don't own. I often wonder when it goes from an exaggeration to a full-blown self delusion. Oh, and I'm not speaking necessarily about aikidoka.

George,
Thanks for the link! I have been trying to find that one for a couple weeks now, but haven't had any luck.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:44 PM   #9
Darryl Cowens
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
I think it is a fine demo of overcommitted ukes throwing themselves very prettily.
Check it out around 1:25... He didn't even touch him.. It was like Obi-Wan was using the force..
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:36 AM   #10
Abasan
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
You have to start your uke's training when they are young.



David
David, I'm going to steal your gif.

As for the replies here...
I've practised with several of those uke's before.

Kaoru, the 1st uke not only has decades of aikido under his belt, he's been around the world training in other arts including bjj, muay thai and silat. Nice guy as he is, I won't ever call him a seal jumping through hoops. He's not inaccessible, you can find him in hombu most times since he writes for their magazine as well. So go train with him and ask him what it all means. Everything else here is conjecture from people who decided they know everything there is to know on the basis of their current experience.

To imply Shihan Takeda is in the same circle as that kiai fellow is a big misrepresentation.

For the benefit of the 1st poster...
Shihan is demonstrating aiki. Not ki. When you get better, your connection (musubi) between uke and nage is no longer constraint by physical, but more... ki, mind, intention.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:54 AM   #11
Chris Li
 
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post
To imply Shihan Takeda is in the same circle as that kiai fellow is a big misrepresentation.
Takeda's actually quite skilled, I always enjoyed his demonstrations each year at the Zen Nihon. However, with the kind of stuff he's been demonstrating in the YouTube videos he's put himself smack dab in the middle of the same circle as that kiai fellow.

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post
For the benefit of the 1st poster...
Shihan is demonstrating aiki. Not ki. When you get better, your connection (musubi) between uke and nage is no longer constraint by physical, but more... ki, mind, intention.
Doesn't look much like aiki to me.

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-09-2010, 02:26 AM   #12
Michael Varin
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Wow. Impressive stuff.

I bet Georges St-Pierre wouldn't stand a chance against Yoshinobu Takeda.

I loved the suwari waza randori at the end. I understand how you can stop six men by waving your arms while standing, but I really didn't think he could do it on his knees.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 06-09-2010, 02:28 AM   #13
Michael Varin
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote:
When you get better, your connection (musubi) between uke and nage is no longer constraint by physical, but more... ki, mind, intention.
I agree. . .

But that wasn't it.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 06-09-2010, 02:33 AM   #14
Abasan
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Chris, no disrespect to you but saying,
"Takeda's actually quite skilled" is like saying Johnson's quite good in Basketball. A lot of folks here evince proper respect, even awe for Endo sensei, yet do not realise that Takeda is senpai to him and was recognise by his teacher (yamaguichi) as one of his most gifted students.

Takeda is also a board director in Aikikai hombu. He is an 8th dan holder. And the list goes on for whoever cares for that sort of thing.

Actually...its fine. That's all I have to say on behalf of this respected teacher.

Best.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 06-09-2010, 03:04 AM   #15
phanhngocdi
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

so what is behind his demonstration?
in this clip, there is one guy in the center trying to hold his fist and several guys around this man and help him to keep his own balance.
The sensei just wave his hand from quite far distance => all of them fall down?
what is the thing behind this?
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Old 06-09-2010, 04:23 AM   #16
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

I recall taking part in this discussion regarding Takeda Shihan and no-touch throws about the same time last year.

David Soroko posted this link near the start.

http://www.aikidosydneycity.com/aikidokenkyukai.html

Quote:
What follows next is known as atogeiko (after practice) and is a time for students to approach their sensei (teacher) and senpai (senior students) for ukemi. The average student will receive anywhere from 20 to 100 throws at a time, depending on their ability. This practice, while physically demanding, is invaluable for their progress as it develops suppleness, sensitivity and inner weight. Once fatigued, they are no longer able to resist their partner's movement and thus, begin to move naturally and freely with no concept of mind, in accordance with Aikido principles.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:44 AM   #17
sorokod
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

On that same thread Peter Goldsbury had this to say
Quote:
I myself have told the present Doshu that such demonstrations are actually a source of scandal (I did not put it quite like this)
More here: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=52

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Old 06-09-2010, 07:19 AM   #18
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Is this demo really so different than most you see these days?
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:27 AM   #19
dps
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Re: Ki in Aikido?

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post
David, I'm going to steal your gif.
Ok, that is how I got it.

David
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:48 AM   #20
Chris Li
 
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post
Chris, no disrespect to you but saying,
"Takeda's actually quite skilled" is like saying Johnson's quite good in Basketball. A lot of folks here evince proper respect, even awe for Endo sensei, yet do not realise that Takeda is senpai to him and was recognise by his teacher (yamaguichi) as one of his most gifted students.

Takeda is also a board director in Aikikai hombu. He is an 8th dan holder. And the list goes on for whoever cares for that sort of thing.

Actually...its fine. That's all I have to say on behalf of this respected teacher.

Best.
Sure, I know Takeda, I trained with his teacher many times, and I know many of his contemporaries. That doesn't change what he's doing in the videos, however.

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-09-2010, 09:21 AM   #21
Abasan
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Uke is asked to have intention of killing nage. Like really really I'm going to kill you with this punch. The other guys just hold on to him. If he moves using his own muscle, they can stop him easily. If he moves without conscious thought, the others will fall too.

Sensei grabs that intention, and cuts.

Its a demonstration of intent and connecting with intent. Not a demonstration to do an invisible throw.

I wanted to post a video of another Aiki jujitsu practitioner who worked with one of the Dallas footballers, plus a lady pro golfer and some basketballers. He did extensive aiki fake outs that caused the footballers and basketballers to freeze as he walk past them. Certainly no touching involved. Sure he did not throw them down, but they stopped short of even touching him or his football.

Unfortunately, both videos that I linked to have now been removed. Still there are plenty floating around on the net, and maybe one day you'll get the chance to feel it for yourself.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:27 AM   #22
Gorgeous George
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Quote:
Adam Huss wrote: View Post
George,
Thanks for the link! I have been trying to find that one for a couple weeks now, but haven't had any luck.
No problem - I had a little trouble finding it this time myself. You just have to remember to search for 'Yanagiryuken'....or 'Kiai', haha.
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:30 AM   #23
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
I loved the suwari waza randori at the end. I understand how you can stop six men by waving your arms while standing, but I really didn't think he could do it on his knees.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:32 AM   #24
Gorgeous George
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post
Uke is asked to have intention of killing nage. Like really really I'm going to kill you with this punch. The other guys just hold on to him. If he moves using his own muscle, they can stop him easily. If he moves without conscious thought, the others will fall too.

Sensei grabs that intention, and cuts.

Its a demonstration of intent and connecting with intent. Not a demonstration to do an invisible throw.

I wanted to post a video of another Aiki jujitsu practitioner who worked with one of the Dallas footballers, plus a lady pro golfer and some basketballers. He did extensive aiki fake outs that caused the footballers and basketballers to freeze as he walk past them. Certainly no touching involved. Sure he did not throw them down, but they stopped short of even touching him or his football.

Unfortunately, both videos that I linked to have now been removed. Still there are plenty floating around on the net, and maybe one day you'll get the chance to feel it for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9rl1EvJX_k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI

I think the jiu-jitsu guys mustn't train correctly...
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:34 AM   #25
sakumeikan
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Re: YouTube: Ki in Aikido? (Y. Takeda sensei demo)

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post
Uke is asked to have intention of killing nage. Like really really I'm going to kill you with this punch. The other guys just hold on to him. If he moves using his own muscle, they can stop him easily. If he moves without conscious thought, the others will fall too.

Sensei grabs that intention, and cuts.

Its a demonstration of intent and connecting with intent. Not a demonstration to do an invisible throw.

I wanted to post a video of another Aiki jujitsu practitioner who worked with one of the Dallas footballers, plus a lady pro golfer and some basketballers. He did extensive aiki fake outs that caused the footballers and basketballers to freeze as he walk past them. Certainly no touching involved. Sure he did not throw them down, but they stopped short of even touching him or his football.

Unfortunately, both videos that I linked to have now been removed. Still there are plenty floating around on the net, and maybe one day you'll get the chance to feel it for yourself.
Hi ,
Having read the opening few sentences in this last item I find it practically incomprehensible. Please explain dear Ahmad in simple words [I am a bit dull] what you are trying to say.Maybe I am missing the point of your explanation.Perhaps I am simply not on your wavelength?Can I be the only person on this Web page who fails to grasp the esoteric meaning of your post?I must say the old song by Danny Kaye in Hans Christian Anderson where he sings about the Emperors New Clothes seems to me to fit this situation.
As far as Yamaguchi Sensei is concerned I do not recall him training like the example in question.To my knowledge he did not wave an arm and groups of Uke [some feet away ] fell to the floor as if hit by a cosmic thunderbolt.
As far as the senior Uke[earlier blog ] being a real nice guy [which is good ]
has no bearing on the fact that he seems to me [at least ] to be
rather co operative in the role of Uke.
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