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Old 02-12-2006, 11:23 AM   #201
Edwin Neal
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Re: Self-defense art?

i too laugh at the guy who is president of my country, but hey he is all buddy buddy with your guy... so i guess we are both in a non humorous, laughable situation... whatever your opinion...
for Jo opinions are subjective/personal... this says nothing to the truth or correctness of the opinion... that of course is subject to 'reality', no matter how dearly 'we believe' it... some opinions are true with respect to reality, and some are clearly false with respect to reality... both are still opinions, but some are true and others not so true...
try this article for some additional thoughts
http://www.aikiweb.com/columns/pschweer/2005_05.html

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-12-2006, 11:44 AM   #202
Qatana
 
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Re: Self-defense art?

So what you are saying is that you are either unable or unwilling to answer my straight question with a straight answer?
I maintain that you are contradicting yourself. Ther is NO intrinsic rightness or wrongness in an opinion., Ther is only agreement or disagreement.
Or are you of the opinion that "opinion" and :judgement" are of an identical definition?

Q
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"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 02-12-2006, 11:53 AM   #203
Edwin Neal
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Re: Self-defense art?

opinion is what you believe... it may or may not be "true" in a reality sense... holding the opinion that the world is flat will never be true no matter if one agrees or disagrees with it... holding the opinion that the world is spherical is always true no matter if you agree or disagree with it... i would say opinion and judgement are of 'similar' definitions... i am trying to answer your question and i don't think i am contradicting myself... opinions are beliefs and they are either true beliefs or false beliefs with respect to reality...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-12-2006, 11:56 AM   #204
Qatana
 
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Re: Self-defense art?

So "true and false" are the same as "right and wrong"?

Q
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"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 02-12-2006, 12:00 PM   #205
Edwin Neal
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Re: Self-defense art?

generally speaking i would say yes... however thats my opinion...LOL

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-12-2006, 12:01 PM   #206
Qatana
 
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Re: Self-defense art?

So if I say that I think the primary purpose of aikido training is self transformation, how do you interpret and respond to my statement?
True or false? right or wrong?

Last edited by Qatana : 02-12-2006 at 12:05 PM.

Q
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"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 02-12-2006, 12:06 PM   #207
Edwin Neal
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Re: Self-defense art?

i agree, but the term "self transformation" could be interpreted in many ways... one could then call some of these interpretations right or wrong based upon different criteria, and opinions...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-12-2006, 12:18 PM   #208
doronin
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Red face Re: Self-defense art?

Guys, what you're doing now, is it self-defense, or a martial art?
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Old 02-12-2006, 12:30 PM   #209
Edwin Neal
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Re: Self-defense art?

i don't know Dmitry... what's your opinion? I do both...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-12-2006, 02:01 PM   #210
doronin
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Re: Self-defense art?

Me neither, but this discussion looks like a street fight now...


BTW, what people used to say about a difference between SD training and MA practicing - kinda overlapping subsets, but definitelly not the same thing, huh?...
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Old 02-12-2006, 02:18 PM   #211
Edwin Neal
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Re: Self-defense art?

true on both points Dmitry, my feeling is SD is mandatory in a MA, that is one of my clear goals, and emphasis... but not all MA practice this way...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-13-2006, 04:22 AM   #212
creinig
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Re: Self-defense art?

Just a little note on the use of weapon bags in a SD situation: I use this bag: http://www.bujindesign.com/cases2.html (The "D" model). No matter what nasty things you pack inside, it's still utterly unusable as a weapon. It makes for a decent cushion though
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:10 AM   #213
Nick Simpson
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Re: Self-defense art?

'There is NO intrinsic rightness or wrongness in an opinion., There is only agreement or disagreement.'

Well said Jo.

Nice weapons bag Christian

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:16 AM   #214
Cleetus
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Re: Self-defense art?

The thing is we can debate all day about what would be the right thing to if we were attacked. The truth is unless in a specific situation but unless we are actually faced with that situation we don;t know what we would do.
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:32 AM   #215
Nick Simpson
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Re: Self-defense art?

'I thought us Yanks taught that to the Redcoats 2 hundred years ago...LOL.'

'it is true and this proves it the british have no sense of humor...LOL...'

You think either of those two 'statement's (I wont call em jokes...) are funny? Well, you obviously have a very different 'opinion' on what constitutes a 'sense of humor'...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:20 AM   #216
Mark Freeman
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Re: Self-defense art?

Quote:
Edwin Neal wrote:
for Jo opinions are subjective/personal... this says nothing to the truth or correctness of the opinion... that of course is subject to 'reality', no matter how dearly 'we believe' it... some opinions are true with respect to reality, and some are clearly false with respect to reality... both are still opinions, but some are true and others not so true...
Can I hazard an illustration to support this premise.
Some believe that the universe is something like 15 billion years old, and that the earth is approximately 4 billion years old.
There are those that believe that the earth was 'made' around about the time that the others believe the agrarian revolution was happening. Both opinions, only one of them 'true'. I'll leave you to guess where my beliefs lie.

Quote:
i too laugh at the guy who is president of my country, but hey he is all buddy buddy with your guy... so i guess we are both in a non humorous, laughable situation... whatever your opinion...
opinion does not come in to it, this is sad but nonetheless 'true'

Cheers
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-13-2006, 09:49 AM   #217
Qatana
 
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Re: Self-defense art?

Belief can be based on fact, fantasy or faith. Opinion can be based on imagination or experience.If I believe something do I have to have empirical Proof of the object/subject of my belief?If I believe in ki and I don't believe in somebody's organised religion, Where is the Right and Wrong in that?
If I say IMO that chocolate is better than strawberry, you may agree or disagree, but can there be any Right or Wrong?

Q
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Old 02-13-2006, 10:39 AM   #218
Mark Freeman
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Re: Self-defense art?

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
Belief can be based on fact, fantasy or faith. Opinion can be based on imagination or experience.If I believe something do I have to have empirical Proof of the object/subject of my belief?If I believe in ki and I don't believe in somebody's organised religion, Where is the Right and Wrong in that?
If I say IMO that chocolate is better than strawberry, you may agree or disagree, but can there be any Right or Wrong?
Interesting,
Belief based on objective fact at least has something going for it. It's not really 'belief' to say the planet earth is round, it just 'is' I 'know' it, there is no room for right or wrong in this case
Belief based on faith is the most common area for most of us, for example we have faith that our fellows will follow common rules e.g. stick to the right side of the road. Luckily they usually do There are many many cases where we have faith that things will turn out a certain way, our own general experience tends to bear these things out.
Belief based on fantasy, seems to me to be rather 'daft' as if you know something is fantasy it is just that. Like believing "The force is with you"
I think some problems arise when belief is 'faith' based and that faith is built on fantasy. If enough people believe it, it starts to have a life of it's own, and then the 'believers' start to believe that it's 'true'

As for chocolate being better than strawberry, well Strawberry Chocolate wins hands down

It's probably best not to believe a word that I say.

regards,
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:29 AM   #219
Edwin Neal
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Re: Self-defense art?

well put mark... chocolate and strawberry what sublime unity and harmony...
got the same weapons bag... try this, get your friend to take it with a jo and bokken in it you stand there and 1) let them hit as hard as they can in the face with it, 2) take it and 'sweep' behind your knee or ankle...

Nick Smith said, "The thing is we can debate all day about what would be the right thing to if we were attacked. The truth is unless in a specific situation but unless we are actually faced with that situation we don;t know what we would do."

i would say we practice so that in any situation we have trained some response(s) that can be applied to that situation, and that is certainly better than 'freezing' and doing nothing... it is all about improvising and spontaneity...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-13-2006, 04:22 PM   #220
Nick Simpson
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Re: Self-defense art?

'try this, get your friend to take it with a jo and bokken in it you stand there and 1) let them hit as hard as they can in the face with it, 2) take it and 'sweep' behind your knee or ankle... '

Stand there? Why? Im too pretty for that kind of shenanigans...
I understand the importance of conditioning and learning to take blows, but allowing someone to hit you in the face with a weapons bag full of jo etc etc, does not sound like a sensible recreational activity to me. Hell, it would be pretty silly even in the name of budo. I'll get my kicks elsewhere guys an gals...

'it is all about improvising and spontaneity...'

This is the heart of it. Totally agree.

Last edited by Nick Simpson : 02-13-2006 at 04:27 PM.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:45 PM   #221
Edwin Neal
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Re: Self-defense art?

alas Nick I believe your sarcasm meter is not getting the sunshine it requires... perhaps you have it stuck in the wrong place...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-13-2006, 04:48 PM   #222
Nick Simpson
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Re: Self-defense art?

'A sarcasm detector? Now thats a REAL USEFULL invention...'

Notice the playful tone of that paragraph? Notice the smiley?

Never mind

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 02-14-2006, 01:47 PM   #223
white rose
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Re: Self-defense art?

Hi guys.

Well to answer Edwin's question. I really don't know what failed, Aikido, training or me not paying attention to my surroundings. I'm just glad they didn't come down, because it hurt the first time.

As for what I'd do different, I think I'd be more wearier of people and not wander into underpasses with two lad's in ha,ha. As have been pointed out my point was about Ukemi and its part in Aikido.

Dont hit me again Nick I'll wash your smalls
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Old 02-14-2006, 02:30 PM   #224
Tim Gerrard
 
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Re: Self-defense art?

Quote:
Nick Simpson wrote:
but allowing someone to hit you in the face with a weapons bag full of jo etc etc, does not sound like a sensible recreational activity to me.
Sounds like the perfect Saturday afternoon after a few!

Aikido doesn't work? My Aikido works, what on earth are you practicing?!
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Old 02-15-2006, 04:23 AM   #225
Nick Simpson
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Re: Self-defense art?

''Sounds like the perfect Saturday afternoon after a few!''

Yeah. But you get paid to get shot at...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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