Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-13-2004, 06:44 AM   #1
KamiKaze_Evolution
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 125
Malaysia
Offline
Blush! What's happened to Shudokan?

After Aikido Yoshinkan Shudokan Dojo in Malaysia recognized as an IYAF dojo, i've no further news about Shudokan Institutes of Aikido UK and it's UK page (i mean domain) has been moved.

So, may i have news about Shudokan in UK, Germany, Poland, France and Canada?

Wish for help!

Thanks for a lot!

KamiKaze
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 04:51 PM   #2
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 602
United_States
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Anthony,

I seem to remember you asking this question before. In any event, I'll give the same answer as before. Why don't you write to them directly and ask them for yourself? Here is an e-mail address for you. info[at]shudokanmalaysia.com

Good luck ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 06:10 PM   #3
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

The Shudokan Nottingham Dojo wanted to manage i all them selves, so it now redirects to www.shudokan.info

I am plannining a new site and I'll ost here about it!

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005, 01:43 AM   #4
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:
The Shudokan Nottingham Dojo wanted to manage i all them selves, so it now redirects to www.shudokan.info
Ooo, pet hate, putting the word Sensei before the name, someone please tell him it should be Robson Sensei or Ken Sensei, not Sensei Ken

I tried to ignore it and not post, honest, I did, I really tried.

rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005, 10:24 AM   #5
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
Location: Sheffield, UK
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 524
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote:
Ooo, pet hate, putting the word Sensei before the name.
It's a pet hate of mine too, but what bugs me more is when people use "sempai" the same way. Ugh.

Sean
x
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 05:29 AM   #6
Taliesin
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

That's where culture comes in - the the West (or at least the UK) the honorific or title is placed before somebodies name - therefore the title is placed in accordance with cultural and grammatical norms. I understand that in Japan the honorific is normally placed after the name.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 09:24 AM   #7
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Quote:
David Chalk wrote:
That's where culture comes in - the the West (or at least the UK) the honorific or title is placed before somebodies name - therefore the title is placed in accordance with cultural and grammatical norm.
That's fine if you are using the English language (Mr Smith, Doctor Smith, Professor Smith etc.), although I don't recall anyone in English being referred to as teacher Smith. If you were referring to a colleague in a conversation, would you use San or Sama in the same way (San Smith, Sama Smith), it's western culture to put the honorific first , or would you use the correct form (Smith san, Smith Sama)? If you adopt words from a foreign language, you should still use them in the correct context of that language, to do otherwise shows a lack of understanding of the adopted language.

rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 10:21 AM   #8
Taliesin
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Correct Form? - Nice Try - The English language has a very long history of taking and incorporating foreign words. If we are speaking English and incorporating what was originally a foreign word the appropriate grammar is that of the English Language. The context is correct as it describes the title appropriate to the person.

You'd have a point if the website was written in Japanese though
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 01:18 PM   #9
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here David.

Rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 01:24 PM   #10
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 602
United_States
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

I'm sure glad I speak American ..... :-D
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 02:54 PM   #11
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

We are all guilty of it and I know the Eastern form. Many do it because they say Mr X not X San, and that then slips in to Sensei X not X Sensei. When using a Japanese title we should write it the correct way round, but hey, does it really matter? If X is an awesome Aikidoka and teacher, does it matter if he is refered to as Sensei X or X Sensei?

Remember that a lot of people in the US use the term Aikidoist in place of Aikidoka, but does that have any effect on their Aikido?

The later is more a pet hate of mne than the former!!!

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 03:08 PM   #12
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
Location: Sheffield, UK
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 524
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

I prefer 'aikidoist' to 'aikidoka', and I see what you're getting at with "Sensei x" as against "x sensei", though I still don't like it.

"Sempai X" though, is a whole different ball game. "Sempai" is not an honorific, it isn't rank related, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with teaching, and the vast majority of us practicing in the west don't do the sempai/kohai thing or even understand it.
The way dojos in the UK use "sempai" as a title, meaning "almost, but not quite, sensei" is just plain tacky. Tacky and embarassing. So there.

Sean
x

Last edited by deepsoup : 04-08-2005 at 03:10 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2005, 11:19 AM   #13
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Quote:
Sean Orchard wrote:
"Sempai X" though, is a whole different ball game. "Sempai" is not an honorific, it isn't rank related, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with teaching, and the vast majority of us practicing in the west don't do the sempai/kohai thing or even understand it.
The way dojos in the UK use "sempai" as a title, meaning "almost, but not quite, sensei" is just plain tacky. Tacky and embarassing. So there.
Actually, some schools (particularly in Karate) use Sempai as a title, meaning a "Senior", for the step between student and teacher, usually 1st and 2nd Dan.

In my opinion, if you teach, then you are Sensei, but each to there own.


Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2005, 11:46 AM   #14
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

cough...since this seems to be the 'pedantic' thread....

That would be 'to each *their* own'...

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2005, 12:48 PM   #15
Charles Hammond
Location: London
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Quote:
Sean Orchard wrote:
I prefer 'aikidoist' to 'aikidoka'...

Sean
x
Personally I can't stand aikidoist.

My arguement is that since someone who wrestles is a wrestler, someone who boxes is a boxer and someone fences is a fencer then someone who practices aikido should be an aikidoer. That of course is close enough to the Japanese convention as to make it worth keeping aikidoka as the term for a practitioner and giving the nod to tradition.

Charles Hammond
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2005, 12:50 PM   #16
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Bloody amazing that in an art which so many (regardless of country) adopt without much ado the philosophy yet don't won't adopt the correct usage of the terms as described in this thread.

:bewildered:

A question to those who use 'Sensei' before the name, and justify that based upon the native language spoken...

If you were introducing a Japanese instructor face to face to someone would *you* say "Sensei <name>" or "<name> Sensei" ?

Dave
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2005, 01:11 PM   #17
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Hi All

It has been going a while this one and quiet for a bit too!

The old web-site is back and has been for a short time, but in a way that it should be! I am no longer part of Shudokan UK and haven't for a while, so I have brought it back as a tribute to one of my old teachers, the late, great Edwin WJ Stratton Sensei - Founder of the UK Yoshinkan!

www.shudokan.org.uk

Tony asked the question on Aikido Journal about the Shudokan.

The Shudokan in Malaysia, Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Indonesia, Poland, and the UK, all come from Thambt Rajah Sensei in Malaysia (The Father of Malaysian Aikido- in the Yoshinkan school). It came to Europe (UK) with Stratton Sensei and on to Canada, France, Germany and Poland.

As for being part of the Yoshinkan, that is just a question of membership. Some parts of the Shudokan are, some are not.

Hope that helps.

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2005, 02:42 PM   #18
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 608
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

Quote:
Dave Humm wrote:
Bloody amazing that in an art which so many (regardless of country) adopt without much ado the philosophy yet don't won't adopt the correct usage of the terms as described in this thread.

:bewildered:

A question to those who use 'Sensei' before the name, and justify that based upon the native language spoken...

If you were introducing a Japanese instructor face to face to someone would *you* say "Sensei <name>" or "<name> Sensei" ?

Dave

I would do it the English way if I was speaking English and the Japanese way if I was speaking Japanese. We have the same thing in Spanish. Our adjectives in Spanish are after the what is being described. In Spanish, we don't say the big boy, the fat elephant or the pretty girl. We say the boy big (muchacho grande) the elephant fat (elefante gordo) and the girl pretty (muchacha bonita). If I was importing the word muchacho into English, I would say the big muchacho. If I was importing the word "boy" into Spanish, I would say the boy grande. If I am speaking in English, it makes sense to say Sensei Ron and if I am speaking in Japanese, it makes sense to say Ron Sensei. One is an English word and one is Japanese. It depends which way the word is being imported.

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2005, 06:59 PM   #19
Josh Reyer
 
Josh Reyer's Avatar
Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
Japan
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

I really know where Bryan and Sean are coming from. "Sensei John Smith" just sounds wrong to me. However, "sensei" is actually in Webster's dictionary, including a plural of "senseis", so that makes it English enough for people to do what they will (I'm a hard-line descriptivist).

There's the flip-side. Japanese has imported many foreign words it uses as job titles: manager, coach, (news)caster, reporter, announcer, trainer, and others. These words are frequently used as honorifics: Tanaka-maneejaa, Sato-koochi, Kikuchi-repootaa, Uchida-anaunsaa. If I get upset about Sensei John, I have to get upset about Sato-koochi.

Now, sempai is a whole different kettle. Sempai is not (yet) acclimated to the English language, so someone attempting to use it is attempting to bring a particular cultural concept, and in that case a little more adherence to proper usage would be preferable, if only to show that they understand the concept. "Sempai" is not a title one earns or loses, it's simply what you are. When listing teachers, for example, it's not unusual to put "sensei" next to their names (and the same is done with the above imported words), but it's never done with "sempai". One person's sempai is another person's kohai. Because it is varies depending on the person, and since it's not a qualification or a job, it's simply used as a form of address.

Related to this, what really bugs me is the use of "kohai" in Rising Sun (book and movie). Unlike "sempai", "kohai" is never used as an honorific, nor as a form of address.

"Aikidoist" is, linguistically, much, much more justifiable that "Aikidoer". The "-er" suffix is native English, and is derived from verb forms. We tend to attach it to native English words, or words that "sound" English. The "-ist" suffix is derived from French, and tends to be attached to foreign-derived words, and also nouns. One who plays a piano is not a pioner, but a pianist. One who writes is a writer, but one who writes novels is a novelist. And of course "-ist" is also used to refer to followers of a philosophy or doctrine, like "hedonist", "Impressionist", and so on. So on a phonological level ("aikidoist" flows better than "aikidoer") as a well as a semantical level (aikido is a noun; something we use/make, as well as a philosophy, rather than a verb like box, fence, or wrestle), I think "aikidoist" has much more to recommend it than "aikidoer".

Of course, "aikidoka" can be imported pretty easily. Tohei Akira Shihan once said that "aikidoka" referred to a professional instructor, although I can't say he's fully supported by common Japanese usage; it seems to refer to dedicated hobbyists over here, too.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2005, 12:17 AM   #20
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
Location: Oceanside, California
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,121
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

I think it should be "To each, HIS own."

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2005, 06:23 PM   #21
James Kelly
Dojo: Glendale Aikikai
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 109
United Nations
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

To my ear, Smith Sensei does sound better, but we rarely use Japanese word order for names -- don't hear Yamada Kenji as much as Kenji Yamada -- so the native language argument may not be the best one.

My favorite though is John Cardinal Smith. How's that for old school word order.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2006, 03:48 AM   #22
kohaku
 
kohaku's Avatar
Dojo: Shudokan Aikido, Preston
Location: Preston
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 20
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: What's happened to Shudokan?

at the moment shudokan uk is going strong there are dojo's in nottingham(2), lincoln(2), york, preston, oxford and devon(2). there is strong dojo's in poland as well. there are websites for most of these and you should find the link from the nottingham dojo.

as for the sensei "name" sensei thing, who cares who does what, it is their choice and leave it to them.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ueshiba, Takeda, & 1921 - What happened? MM General 19 01-05-2007 01:33 PM
Shudokan Dojo in Nottingham Mathias Lee General 19 11-02-2006 06:17 AM
Aikido Shudokan Mailing List Launched AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 07-14-2005 10:26 PM
New DVD's from Aikido Shudokan stuartjvnorton Marketplace 0 04-28-2005 02:21 AM
What has happened to the budoka? Andrew Wilson General 29 03-31-2003 03:21 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:09 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate