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Old 01-13-2006, 05:43 AM   #51
James Smithe
 
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Jakob Blomquist wrote:
Hey, Edwin.
Tohei was his teacher (and graded him to at least 1 dan). Isoyama was his teacher. Abe was his teacher. All three are considered to be the foremost of the founders direct students. How is that for lineage for you.
Who are you to say Seagal is not 100% sincere and honest about his aikido and everything else today? Have you met him or his students lately? Do you base your knowledge about this man from rumors, hypes and myths? Then how does that goes with the "nature of our art as you say?
Someone who has trained aikido since at least the end of 60's-beginning of 70's, who has operated a successful dojo in japan, who has been recognized as friend and good aikidoka by Isoyama and Abe, who recieved hachidan and was honoured to demonstrate at all Japan Aikido 1995 by Second doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba, at least I think deserves the respect to not be called someone who runs a McDojo.

Or maybe that is just me.

/J
You just ignored everything I said. You guys are hopeless.
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:13 AM   #52
Edwin Neal
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Hey flame off there aikilove... I Said or made no direct allegation against Seagal sensei... I was making generalizations about the state of aikido...however since you bring it up, I can say I have never met him nor any of his students to my knowledge, but I have trained with people who have and whom I trust. I can however read his web page and what ever else you can find by a simple websearch:

I have seen his movies and some clips of him doing aikido... not too shabby... not a master...

Steven Seagal is not only a martial arts master, he is the only Caucasian in history to own and run an aikido dojo in Japan.

This is not true.

Steven Seagal began training karate at the age of 7 under Fumio Demura, and later began practising aikido in the late 1960s at the Orange County Aikikai in California under Harry Ishisaka.
Seagal Sensei received his 1st Dan from Koichi Tohei in Orange County in the summer of 1974 and traveled to Japan shortly thereafter at the tender age of 19. Seagal separated from Tohei's organization and assumed direction of the Aikikai-Hombu affiliated Tenshin Aikido Dojo in Osaka which was owned by his Japanese wife's parents.
He was rapidly promoted to 5th Dan in consideration of his position as chief instructor of the dojo, and his natural aptness in the art, and was eventually awarded his 6th Dan.

shodan to godan how do i do that??

Steven Seagal currently holds a 7th Dan granted by the Aikikai and trains out of his home with his senior students, who in turn operate the dojos in Los Angeles and Taos. Seagal Sensei also has a school in Ventura, California under Larry Reynosa Sensei. Reynosa Sensei has trained with Steven Seagal for 11 years, holds the rank of Yondan (4th degree black belt) and is a direct disciple of Steven Seagal Shihan

yondan in 11 years???

He has sworn his allegiance, loyalty, and love to him and his style of Aikido. Ten years ago, Seagal Sensei honored Reynosa Sensei with the name "Makato" which means "sincere heart" in Japanese. Therefore, the school is also called Makoto Dojo.

whats all this swearing going on here?? and for the record there is only one style of aikido... that came from Osensei...

Seagal Sensei is a priest of the Omoto-Kyo sect, as was O'Sensei. Seagal Sensei's name in Aikido circles is Take Shigemichi, meaning pathway to Prosperity.

and he is an Omoto priest? I didn't even know Osensei was an Omoto priest!!!

http://www.stevenseagal.com/spirit.html
try this on and see what you think... theres plenty more...

and imagine he did all this while grooming himself for a career as a movie star... and more but we cant talk about that....

Seagal was just being mentioned here when i started to spin off topic about testing standards and ranking systems and such... see my other posts... i meant to imply that we (all aikidoka) must be sincere and honest about certain aspects of our art... some dojos may possibly be a little off the golden path... Know what I mean???

i'm not kicking anybody down, just kicking some ideas around...

Edwin Neal


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Old 01-13-2006, 06:21 AM   #53
Edwin Neal
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

sorry james I got you... menkyo kaiden is a certificate not a rank... its kind of a certification of mastery ... maybe like a super shihan or something as i understand it...

and Seagal aint got one ;-)

seagal just got blended into my off topic thready thingy there...

Edwin Neal


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Old 01-13-2006, 06:30 AM   #54
happysod
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Dear aikiweb adherents,

I have pondered this for a long time and must ask your help on introducing honesty and standards in our pie-making, which have IMHO been slipping since I was first born (LOL). In the days of true pie-making, pastry was a rough-tough no-nonsense way of sealing all that goodness in using only the most basic of ingredients, it was never intended for eating!!

Since then, modern bakers have allowed their own thoughts to intrude upon the art rather than keeping to the original, diluting its use in pies to the extent that people now eat the crust!! The more fluffy pie-makers have even introduced ways of adding extra air to the mix to produce such abortions as puff-pastry! Don't even get me started on sweetened pastry and fruit pies! There is only one pastry -- flour, water -- that's it!

I blame TV chefs for the most damaging aspects of how a good product was dumbed down to make it more appealing to the masses. Why, I even hear that some pastry doesn't even contain wheat anymore!!!(probably Hollywood's fault or those damn west-coasters) Folks, we've got to stop this while pies still have some reputation, even quiche creators are starting to snigger at pies these days...
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:38 AM   #55
Edwin Neal
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

BRILLIANT!!!

however backward pies and pastries used to be divine, today some varieties provide little sustenance...

ah the good old pie days.... sigh

Edwin Neal


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Old 01-13-2006, 06:47 AM   #56
PhilMyKi
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

I once met a guy who claimed to be a master - he was not ... he just ate all the pies!

Vorsprung durch Aikido!
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:49 AM   #57
Edwin Neal
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

I once met a master pie maker ... so i killed him...

Edwin Neal


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Old 01-13-2006, 06:54 AM   #58
PhilMyKi
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Just for humour sake, how would one go about killing a master pie maker?

Vorsprung durch Aikido!
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Old 01-13-2006, 07:21 AM   #59
Taliesin
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Can somebody please explaine to me why everybody is interested in Steven Seagal's Aikido - unless they intent to train with him or one of his students? In which case they will be in a position to judge for themselves.

If you don't then what's the point - it isn't going to improve your Aikido
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Old 01-13-2006, 07:21 AM   #60
Edwin Neal
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

you choke him with sensei seagal's energy bars... they suck out his ki...

Edwin Neal


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Old 01-13-2006, 07:23 AM   #61
6th Kyu For Life
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Philip Purcell wrote:
Just for humour sake, how would one go about killing a master pie maker?
Pie to the face.

A DEADLY PIE!!
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Old 01-13-2006, 07:31 AM   #62
batemanb
 
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Philip Purcell wrote:
I once met a guy who claimed to be a master - he was not ... he just ate all the pies!
No I didn't

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 01-13-2006, 07:50 AM   #63
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Edwin, it seems that Suenaka did indeed receive something. I apologize for not believing you, in spite of the fact that it does seem rather strange. As to the meaning of it, or the context in which it was given, I don't know. It does seem rather strange though that your teacher laughs about it, but you through it out on the boards in the manner you did.

Quote:
If not Menkyo Kaiden what were they called?
Hiden Mokoroku, I believe. Check Pre-war Aikido Masters, by Stan Pranin.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 01-13-2006, 07:54 AM   #64
PhilMyKi
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Sorry Bryan I did not mean you ... please don't beat me

It was a person I met during my wilderness years at Uni.

Vorsprung durch Aikido!
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Old 01-13-2006, 08:02 AM   #65
Budd
 
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Thanks, Edwin, I will go check again. I'm not disputing that Suenaka Sensei received certification -- just didn't remember it being necessarily Menkkyo Kaiden. I'll double-check, though.
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Old 01-13-2006, 08:06 AM   #66
Edwin Neal
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

thats how they did it back in the day ... didn't throw it out its no secret... its all in his book,,,

Edwin Neal


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Old 01-13-2006, 11:21 AM   #67
Chris Li
 
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Edwin Neal wrote:
i think that was part of it at least, but "I" understood it to mean he had achieved a somewhat high level of mastery and could establish his own "ha" (school or style) of aikido... as in Suenaka "ha" Tetsugaku ho Aikido... however he didnt do that until way after osenseis passing and the split between tohei and the former doshu Kisshomaru... but well maybe its just easier to say its a piece of paper, although it looks impressive enough ...
That's a possibility, although then the questions would be why he received the certificate after such a short time in practice (after only 8 years - little of that time with Morihei Ueshiba himself) and why many other people who were senior to him (and had much more time and contact with Ueshiba) didn't.

Best,

Chris

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Old 01-13-2006, 12:32 PM   #68
tenshinaikidoka
 
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Mr Neal,

The reason Reynosa sensei had a yondan after 11 years, is because he was already ranked in Aikido when he first started training with Seagal, and he was, I beleive a Sandan at that point, so a Yondan in 11 years is very beleiveable. And I too apologize for not beleiving you regarding the certificate. Now, lets go train!!!!

Domo Arigato,
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Old 01-13-2006, 01:19 PM   #69
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Edwin, Larry Reynosa was not promoted to a yondan in 11 years. When he met Seagal he was already a Sandan in USAF I believe. Larry Reynosa is no longer associated with Seagal and has his direct ties to Hombu dojo. He is currently a godan.
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Old 01-13-2006, 01:21 PM   #70
Raspado
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Sorry- didn't see the last reply before mine. TTT for Larry Reynosa.
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:43 PM   #71
aikidoc
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Yondan in 11 years: here is the Aikikai requirement from their website. Minimum 2 years since Ni dan, with 300 days of practice. That would likely be double for the states or 4 years and 300 hours. Apparently, Seagal is very slow to give rank.
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:51 PM   #72
Edwin Neal
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

I still feel that seems a little fast, but I have always been a little more conservative in this area...

WHAT???
Larry Reynosa is no longer associated with Seagal and has his direct ties to Hombu dojo. He is currently a godan....
how is this...
He has sworn his allegiance, loyalty, and love to him and his style of Aikido. Ten years ago, Seagal Sensei honored Reynosa Sensei with the name "Makato" which means "sincere heart" in Japanese.

sorry I just thought that was ironic... ironic how i keep using the word ironic too.

Now once again I am not attacking either of them (seagal or reynosa) personally...I don't know them I have not had the pleasure of taking ukemi for either of them... they just happen in some ways to indicate some points that I was trying to discuss about aikido in a very general way... take the rank thing...
Seagal Sensei received his 1st Dan from Koichi Tohei in Orange County in the summer of 1974 and traveled to Japan shortly thereafter at the tender age of 19. Seagal separated from Tohei's organization and assumed direction of the Aikikai-Hombu affiliated Tenshin Aikido Dojo in Osaka which was owned by his Japanese wife's parents.
He was rapidly promoted to 5th Dan in consideration of his position as chief instructor of the dojo, and his natural aptness in the art, and was eventually awarded his 6th Dan.
I'm not saying it was undeserved or he sucks or anything... i use it as a possible illustration of what I consider to be an issue that I wish to discuss in a lively but respectful manner... testing criterion and the question of what qualifies as aikido... I've been bouncing these ideas through a couple of threads that i'm following... I don't for instance Know how long reynosa sensei has studied but if I could make Yondan after 11 years... well let me just say that math is a little funny to me... i'm not saying anything about reynosa sensei I am saying what is the deal with testing and ranking and the transmission of aikido...
respectfully

Edwin Neal


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Old 01-13-2006, 06:55 PM   #73
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

dude, read the replies above you. Looks like Reynosa took 11 years between sandan and yondan. Nothing wrong with that.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 01-13-2006, 07:04 PM   #74
Edwin Neal
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Michael it says he studied with seagal for 11 years not 11 years between ranks and this is not what i want to discuss... I would be honored to meet either of them... this is my last post to this thread... i will continue with my thoughts in the testing forum...

Edwin Neal


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Old 01-13-2006, 07:08 PM   #75
Edwin Neal
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

sorry chris li ... i think he was awarded it so he would have authority to open a dojo in okinawa, but I believe he also recognized sensei's ability since he had been training very directly with osensei and tohei sensei for quite a while...
this is my last post here for sure...

Edwin Neal


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