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Old 01-06-2006, 11:56 PM   #1
kocakb
Dojo: Burhan Felek Sport Center-Istanbul
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Confused punching video, fast very fast

Hi Everyone;

I found a video, how fast a person can punch;

http://www.limk.com/limk/91279/

this shows how important keeping the distance can be...
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Old 01-07-2006, 12:24 AM   #2
DevinHammer
 
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Yes, impressive. BUT, I seriously doubt he could go nearly that fast if those punches weren't being pulled.

"Do, or do not. There is no 'try'."
-- Jedi Master Yoda
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Old 01-07-2006, 12:48 AM   #3
kocakb
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

As Ueshiba said; "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword; Move first, fly in and cut!"

Do you think; would it be possible to do a technique after his first punch? or moving first is the only solution.
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Old 01-07-2006, 03:28 AM   #4
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Quote:
Bülent Koçak wrote:
Do you think; would it be possible to do a technique after his first punch? or moving first is the only solution.
Easily. Punches are only useful if they actually do damage. The guy's fast; and I have no doubt that speed translates to good power if he decided to throw a damaging punch - this is a speed demo, after all. But if he hit someone 'for real' with those flurries; his opponent would easily be able to shake them off.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:53 AM   #5
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: punching video, fast very fast

I personally think it is impractical and unecessary to do what he did. He was going for the throat after all, one hit should do the trick.
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Old 01-07-2006, 01:09 PM   #6
SeiserL
 
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Nice chi sau and flow.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-07-2006, 06:22 PM   #7
Shipley
Dojo: UBC Okanagan Aikido Club
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Well, I'll freely grant that he probably couldn't do that kind of speed if he hadn't pulled the punches, but I couldn't move that fast under any circumstances. I bet even punches delivered he's damn fast.
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Old 01-07-2006, 06:51 PM   #8
seank
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

I don't know... if you want to see very fast punches thrown extremely hard, have a look at Temuera Morrison in the movie Once Were Warriors (about Maori culture in New Zealand).... that man is frightening in the speed and ferocity of his punches
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Old 01-08-2006, 12:30 AM   #9
Mike Fugate
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Ki Symbol Re: punching video, fast very fast

Speed=Power. Bruce Lee was very fast too, and I have never heard anyone say that his punches were anything but fast AND powerfull. Speed is great, but also body allignment, mechanics , and conditioning of the hand make a difference too.

"When you cease to strive to understand, then you will know without understanding." -- Caine
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Old 01-08-2006, 06:05 AM   #10
Mat Hill
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ahhh.

His name is Morton Ibsen. He's a Danish Wing Tsun (wing chun) teacher, who is apparently very good. He can put a lot of power into his punches and his structure is very good. Of course you would have to sacrifice some speed for penetrative power... but even at a fraction of that speed it illustrates to me why certainly at shodan aiki people should be practising against combos!

Just two or three would do to start!
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:41 AM   #11
Devon Natario
 
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Even if the punches were as slow as the guy in the link below you're going to have a hard time getting in unless you train for this.
http://www.rmax.tv/images/fisticuffs.wmv

You have to remember, if you do not train to react to certain things like take downs, punches, and kicks, and the guy trains to do those things. You're chances have just diminished. Lets just thank everyone around for being too lazy to train in doing those things.

Devon Natario
Instructor
Northwest Jujitsu
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Old 01-09-2006, 08:16 AM   #12
ian
 
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

A long time ago there was a chinese martial artist who used to win many competitions with just one technique. Basically he would cut down the striking arm, and his other arm would come over the top to strike the jaw with a vertical punch (known to kung-fu students and similar to the strike proceeding irimi-nage shown in 'Budo'). He only needed one punch, and he'd practiced it enough that he could kill someone with it.

All these amzingly fast punches and combinations of striking techniques look nice when people are scoring points. However in reality you just want one thing that is devestating and delivered with perfect timing. I'm not saying these martial artists aren't great - but that martial arts isn't like the movies where you spar for hours on end. The ideal is to finish something quickly and definitively, and it is all in the distance and timing, not in the number or combination of techniques.

Why don't we practise against combos much in aikido? Because we don't stand in front of someone whilst they deliver a combo. When someone strikes you hard/effectively they are striking with their centre. You can strike very quickly in one direction because you can continue your centre to rotate or direct around this one point. If the recipient in this video had moved at the initiation of this fast combination, would the person have been able to make any use of this combination? In fact, should the person have ever got so close to the person without striking or kicking the attacker in the first place? Aikido is one of the few martial arts where we do very little pracitice in which we assume uke to just stand there and soak it up, or to move in a predictable way.

Now I'm not saying aikido is a top fighting art in anyway, but it is an extremely useful self-defence art which has many many beneficial aspects to its training method which are not realised in other martial arts.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 01-09-2006, 08:24 AM   #13
ian
 
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

P.S. also notice that 'uke' in this video keeps his neck exposed - even a person not trained in martial arts is unlikely to be in this posture. It is very natural to hunch the shoulders and hide the neck when threatened. The number of strikes in this combination is ridiculous when they are all delivered to one part of the body (the neck). I'd like to see him use that combination against a boxer - I could just see the boxer ducking smacking the **** out of the attackers ribs (all pointless speculation of course!). Still.... it looks cool.

Also, if you do get hit hard by one punch - believe me, they have plenty time to deliver the second, third and forth punches as you reel around semi-concious.

I'd also say, the worst way to fight is to square up against someone like a sparring match. If you are going to fight, you act passive as if you don't want any trouble - and then you initiate before they get chance to even think of fighting.

Quote:
Bülent Koçak wrote:
As Ueshiba said; "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword; Move first, fly in and cut!"

Too much training in the ring conditions us to fighting as an on/off thing. Reading situations and people prior to a fight is far more important.

Last edited by ian : 01-09-2006 at 08:30 AM.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:51 AM   #14
Mark Freeman
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Quote:
I'd also say, the worst way to fight is to square up against someone like a sparring match. If you are going to fight, you act passive as if you don't want any trouble - and then you initiate before they get chance to even think of fighting.
This sounds like the Monty Python inspired - Welsh Martial Art of "Lapgoch", where one goes up to a complete stranger and wallops them one before they even think of hitting you!

Quote:
Reading situations and people prior to a fight is far more important.
Absolutely.

As for the video, an amazing demonstration of fast hand movement, but wouldn't one handfull of windpipe been more effective, but maybe less impressive to look at?
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:42 AM   #15
Ed Shockley
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

The only fight I can ever win is one that I do not enter. I choose to spend most my energy avoiding the man who thinks it is necessary to practice murdering someone by striking them ten times in the wind pipe than in avoiding any specific punch.
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Old 01-09-2006, 12:38 PM   #16
kaishaku
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

I can empty the cylinder of my 38 special about that fast.

I imagine, though, in just about any self defense situation I would want to get off the line and run for the door
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Old 01-09-2006, 04:10 PM   #17
aikigirl10
Dojo: Aikido of Ashland
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
This sounds like the Monty Python inspired - Welsh Martial Art of "Lapgoch", where one goes up to a complete stranger and wallops them one before they even think of hitting you!
LMAO
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Old 01-10-2006, 11:23 AM   #18
James Davis
 
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

The streets must be reeeaally tough in Wales!

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 01-10-2006, 03:51 PM   #19
Mark Freeman
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Quote:
The streets must be reeeaally tough in Wales!
Actually the Welsh are not known for thier violence, they are more likely to ambush you and sing rather brilliantly at you!
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Old 01-10-2006, 09:12 PM   #20
xuzen
 
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Quote:
Bülent Koçak wrote:
Hi Everyone;

I found a video, how fast a person can punch;

http://www.limk.com/limk/91279/

this shows how important keeping the distance can be...
It appears to be trademark vingtsun attacks. Multiple attacks from multiple angles at rapid pace. It is part of their core winning strategies.

If you were to clinically break it down, it appears to me to be rapid paced yokomen uchi and gyaku yokomen uchi attacks. In such situation, trying to attempt a typical aikido wrist lock is virtually impossible.

To entertain such attacks, it still boil down to simple and effective response... atemi-waza is still the gold standard. Shomen-ate with proper blocking (Irimi-tsuki for non Tomiki people) and nodo-tsuki (throat spearing) is still my preferred solution.

To successfully carry out the respond, one should not be confused and waylaid by the rapid striking, but to move into the centre (neck or throat) and end the fight.

Ossu!

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 01-10-2006, 11:39 PM   #21
Catsy
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

I am a rank novice at aikido and cannot speak to the effectiveness of the technique at face value, but my fiancee trained in Ryukyu Kenpo with a teacher who specialized in applied pressure point techniques, and she mentioned that a flurry of blows like that could be used to deliver strikes to a series of pressure points to achieve one effect or another. In such a case the force you deliver would be secondary to the precision of the strike and your use of ki.

Just don't ask me to attempt to replicate it.
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Old 01-11-2006, 02:18 AM   #22
Matt Molloy
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Actually the Welsh are not known for thier violence, they are more likely to ambush you and sing rather brilliantly at you!
Rough sinewy men, roaming the valleys, terrorizing people with their close harmony singing.

Cheers,

Matt.
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Old 01-16-2006, 01:51 PM   #23
neaikikai
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

Typical Wing Chun speed. Before inventing Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee mastered this style from his only teacher Yip Man. He had the record for punches in a second wityh 7, but that was recently broken by Bruce Lee's friend. I believe he is another Wing chun artist, I forget his name, any help?
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:54 AM   #24
Ascendedskater25
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Re: punching video, fast very fast

It wouldnt be nearly as impressive but if he were to use only one or two neck strikes, with much more power it would be that much better.
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