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Old 01-13-2006, 07:17 PM   #26
Mike Collins
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 189
Eek! Re: Fight or Quit: there is no choice

There's always a choice. I used to fight, now I don't. I had some fights which I realized I was gonna lose, and probably get bad hurt, so I quit, and went fetal, protected my vitals and lived. Got bruised, but I lived.

Yoda was a puppet. Mr. Miyagi was a fictional character played by a dear and wonderful character actor. I am a human being with bones that break, and skin that tears. Quitting is ALWAYS an option. Has to be that way.

But with every option there's a decision to be made, and consequences to be weighed.

I am willing to die for my family. I can choose, each time it should become necessary to choose, to give up my life to give them time or space to live. I am not willing to die for my stuff. If I decide to fight for my stuff, I might well decide to quit and let my stuff get taken. I'm a thinking, human being.

I am also capable to choose to be responsible for my level of commitment to development. And I can commit to never quit until I've done all I can do without hurting something as best as I can tell in the moment. Or not. I could chose to quit when it gets hard, or when I get tired. And that's what makes training of some value for me. I HAVE to choose to keep going beyond discomfort in order to progress. And I HAVE to decide to do less, and when I do choose to do less, I have to live with my decision.

Having the choice is where the value of the training lives.

Kind of like religion in that respect huh? We can each choose to be decent human beings or not-so-much'ers. And we are each responsible for the decisions, the choices we make.

And making the ones that support growth feel so much harder when we make them, and so much better after the "workout" is over.

Funny thing how Budo is kind of like one of them semiphores for life, huh?
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Old 01-18-2006, 09:46 PM   #27
Leon Aman
Leon Aman's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 52
Re: Fight or Quit: there is no choice

John Boswell wrote:

Think about it: when you "try something," are you really giving it your best effort?

POINT IS: If you're going to DO something, then by God... DO IT!

Quiting is NOT an option.

Quiting... can also get you killed, maimed, injured, humiliated, and set up for losses in the future.

If you do something and loose, at least you know you did your best and need to improve. If you do something and fail, you know you have more to learn and have room to grown. But if you do something and walk away, YOU will be the one defeating yourself.

... and that is the worst defeat of all.
Quitting is not an option if you quit that would be the worst defeat of all, if you are going to do something just do it don't try it because when you try it your not giving out your best. I think that is what the whole message is trying to convey.

When someone quits regardless of situations , does it mean one didn't do his best but instead he just tried it and this could be considered as a worst defeat? When the student walk out the mat every time he took a test does it mean he didn't do his best? I believe we've missed some points here.

"NOT Quiting... can also get you killed, maimed, injured, humiliated, and set up for losses in the future."

Isn't that more defeating if one doesn't willing to accept defeat?

Life wont end to those who are quitting. every walk out to fight, walk out to test ,quit to every challenge has a specific reason. but not necessarily mean one didn't do his best.

Just my thought

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Old 01-18-2006, 10:17 PM   #28
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Location: Boulder
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 136
Re: Fight or Quit: there is no choice

Mike Collins wrote:
Quitting is ALWAYS an option. Has to be that way.
Most of the time that's true. But I've been on some climbs where turning around and retreating is exponentially more dangerous than going up over the top. Mentally you throw in the towel, but to survive you keep going up. I have had to run over the top of a peak to get to place where I could shelter from a storm. I was risking death or injury; I heard the static in my ears as I ran over the summit. But I had a better chance at survival by going up and over where there was a crevasse to shelter in than by staying where I was. Not a fun position to be in.

There's lots of motivations for quitting. Facing adversity is much like breaking through a wall when you don't really know for sure what's on the other side. It can be frightening - the unknown is always frightening. So sometimes you quit out of fear. It can be hard. Very hard. So sometimes you quit because it's not worth it, or you just can't do it. And sometimes you just decide you have better things to do, or you just don't care that much. The point is to be honest with yourself and what you want, and to understand why it is that you're quitting. If you give up when you could have succeeded, I'd say you've cheated yourself of something.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:09 AM   #29
Robert Wolfe
Dojo: Itten Dojo
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 18
Re: Fight or Quit: there is no choice


In your second paragraph, above, I think you've captured the essence of the essay that sparked this discussion. Very well said!

-- Bob
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