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Old 12-09-2005, 08:51 AM   #1
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Heart and body

~~What to do when you've found the 'heart' of Aikido in one dojo and the 'body' in another? Heart reflecting a philisophical presentation, focus on Aikido higher principles during training, connection and sense of community and body referring to technical level, depth of experience of student body and truer application of more practical aiki principles. I'm sure I'll sort it out at some point but...what would you do?

Thanks for any input!

~~Paula~~
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:15 AM   #2
roosvelt
Location: Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Re: Heart and body

Quote:
Paula Lydon wrote:
~~What to do when you've found the 'heart' of Aikido in one dojo and the 'body' in another? Heart reflecting a philisophical presentation, focus on Aikido higher principles during training, connection and sense of community and body referring to technical level, depth of experience of student body and truer application of more practical aiki principles. I'm sure I'll sort it out at some point but...what would you do?

Thanks for any input!
I think you mixed up your heart and Aikido heart. Are you sure that your "heart" is Aikido "heart"?

"truer application of more practical aiki principles." I think you mean that is something you can learn and apply. "Aikido higher principles" I think you mean the big words sound beautiful without any meaning to you.

O sensei studied with several masters. Why do you feel being bound to one?

To be frank, i think the "heart" in your post meant familiarity, comfortable with old surroundings and people, the inertia of lazy mind.
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:51 AM   #3
ian
 
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Re: Heart and body

Quote:
Roosvelt Freeman wrote:
O sensei studied with several masters. Why do you feel being bound to one?
I agree. I think it's all about correct timing. You need to find out what you want to learn or what you need NOW. If you can or want to train with both simultaneously, no problem.

Although some martial artists are fantastic; that doesn't mean you can learn everything you need to learn from them. Sometimes its necessary to hear the same thing in a different way to understand it. Training with different instructors I think is essentail for long term aikido development (and also understanding other martial arts).

However, it sounds to me that what you are trying to say is that one dojo is full of love & peacful hippies whereas the other is teaching you practical aikido (though in no way am I suggesting that 'harder' aikido is more practical aikido). I'm also presuming that you've trained with one more than the other; and now you want to see more of what the other side has to offer. When the student is ready the master appears!

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 12-09-2005, 03:21 PM   #4
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
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Re: Heart and body

To get to the heart, don't we have to go through the body?
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Old 12-09-2005, 03:33 PM   #5
crbateman
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Re: Heart and body

If you are exposed to emphasis on the technical aspects of Aikido in one place, and the philosophical and/or spiritual aspects in another place, try to absorb BOTH (unless you are just beginning). This will give you a balanced perspective, without too much of any one path. We are all architects of our own Aikido, produced from the ministrations of our teachers, plus our own thoughts, feelings and experiences. You can choose from more options and make better decisions if you have a broader exposure. "All paths up the mountain are different, but they all lead to the top".
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Old 12-09-2005, 04:45 PM   #6
eyrie
 
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Re: Heart and body

The way to a man's heart is... thru his stomach?
The way to a woman's heart is a....???
The way to the heart of the matter is.... a straight line?

Ignatius
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Old 12-10-2005, 02:52 PM   #7
SeiserL
 
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
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Re: Heart and body

Quote:
Paula Lydon wrote:
What to do when you've found the 'heart' of Aikido in one dojo and the 'body' in another?
IMHO, the dojo does not have a mind, heart, or body. It is a place to find your own. You can find them anyplace you really look.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 12-11-2005, 04:40 AM   #8
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
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Re: Heart and body

It looks to me that you visited another dojo and feel guilty about really liking it compared to your other, home dojo. It is like the person who marries the perfect spouse and then finds someone more handsome or more beautiful. A terrible problem for some.

In gassho
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Old 12-12-2005, 03:18 AM   #9
ruthmc
Dojo: Wokingham Aikido
Location: Reading, UK
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Re: Heart and body

Train wherever you like

Your development in Aikido is your responsibility. I take this to mean that lessons may be learned from any class and any instructor, therefore I'll try 'em all out given the opportunity!

A lot of folk may disagree with me on this one, but I demonstrate my loyalty to the dojo by my commitment to my fellow students, not to the instructor.

Fortunately my sensei agrees with me

Ruth
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:19 AM   #10
Amelia Smith
 
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Re: Heart and body

I find it really odd that so many people here are saying that you should study with multiple instructors. Although OSensei might have trained with many instructors, it's my understanding that he focused on one at a time. It's too confusing for most ordinary mortals to try to learn two different styles at once. If the physical styles of the two dojo are quite similar, or if you already have a firm grounding in one style, it's less of an issue.

The problem of finding the "heart" is not necessarily a touchy-feely hippy matter, either. Some people and schools focus on technical proficiency in such a way that they get really snobby about it, and are distinctly un-helpful to kohai and other fellow students. The culture of a dojo can actually get in the way of learning.

So, the way I see it, you'll be better off committing to one dojo or the other, but maybe you can still train occasionally at the second dojo, as a visitor.
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:32 AM   #11
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
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Re: Heart and body

~~Thank you all, much food for thought~~

~~Lynn-san, you always bring me home ~~

(Bowing)

~~Paula~~
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:39 PM   #12
GaiaM
Dojo: Bend Aiki Martial Arts
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Re: Heart and body

I'd look for a dojo that had both heart and body (they are out there, if perhaps a bit few and far between). For now, if you are, say 3rd kyu or above, I'd train at both. If you are more of a beginner, I'd say choose for now and then start travelling around later.
Gaia

___________
Gaia Marrs
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Old 12-31-2005, 09:48 PM   #13
Ed Shockley
Dojo: aikikai of Philadelphia
Location: philadelphia
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Re: Heart and body

I was taught that one should inform one's Sensei when visiting other dojo. It is a simple ettiquette. most talented teachers welcome the growth. Sometimes they may suggest you wait until your representation of their style is more clear so that you bring honor to your home dojo.
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Old 01-01-2006, 07:41 AM   #14
DH
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Re: Heart and body

Quote:
O sensei studied with several masters. Why do you feel being bound to one?
Interview
Question asked by Jun to Stan
AW: O-sensei also reportedly studied a lot of other koryu arts outside of Daito-ryu.
SP: I would say that that's not true.

snip

......So, you have this very brief stint in Tenjin Shinryo Ryu, some training in Yagyu Ryu jujutsu while in the army, a smattering of judo (from a 17 yr. old shodan), and then( 23 years of) Daito-ryu. That's it. The impression that he studied many different arts other than Daito-ryu and mastered them is completely false.

Stan Pranin

"Opinions vary but if you come from the Daito-ryu side, one might say that aikido is an off-shoot of Daito-ryu. If you come from the aikido side, you might say that Daito-ryu is this king of crude, mechanical jujutsu sort of thing with no philosophy and that aikido is this highly refined, circular, moral thing and is far superior. You could say that if you didn't know anything about Daito-ryu.
I think I wrote once in an editorial that I don't find any spiritual superiority in aikido practitioners compared with those of Daito-ryu. In fact, I find many more things in common than different, really. The difference between a "do" and "jutsu" may be something a scholar writes in an essay but it doesn't have that much to do with present realities.

The heart of true AIkido is in one art... Daito ryu and then- the heart is not the waza. Even Ueshiba said it himself when he saw what was being taught at the hombu, passed down from his son and from Tohei.
"That is not my AIkido."

The heart of AIkido is not the waza.

cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 01-01-2006 at 07:45 AM.
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