Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-04-2005, 05:48 AM   #51
Mat Hill
Dojo: Kaminari Shooto Dojo
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 48
England
Offline
Talking You said it; you're lovely!

I think you did fine.

Sure, maybe it would seem to some people that you were trying to catch her out with the injury question, but let's face it, everybody's different and there is ALWAYS a chance that what you say will be misconstrued and you will end up treading on someone's toes.

Well, in a dojo, no-one should have such big toes! And if they do they could put them to good use and flick the mats onto the pile with them... er... Where was I?

Oh yes, as the senior in the dojo, you were not only right but obliged to explain the rules to her, and I see no reason at all to let it slide because she's a guest. Although this rule does not have any safety implications, dojo rules often do, and rules and etiquette are there precisely to prevent misunderstandings which could lead to someone getting hurt. Sometimes my sensei would let guests off, but that's his prerogative, not mine.

LMAO at Rob Liberti who construes such a litany of sins from your simple questions! In any Japanese dojo (and let's face it, although in many ways Japanese budoka are not the most diplomatic people, they do tend to have a rather deep understanding of 'wa') she would have been told straight out: no tone of voice, no subtleties, just with a simple please at the end. And LOL (is there an acronym for 'sneering slightly'?! ) at all the people who said, "Well, I agree with everyone else: you should have let it slide."... as Nick has pointed out, it was about fifty-fifty in agreement; way to go with the selective memory!

To me, because anyone can take anything badly, the most important thing is my delivery (which is why although I always seem a pompous ass over the net, precisely because I overexplain myself in an attempt to avoid misunderstanding, when most people seem to think I'm OK! ), and Nick and his kohai/sempai have confirmed that his tone was OK.

So all that remains to ask is; what did she say at the time Nick, and did she come back?!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2005, 05:53 AM   #52
Mat Hill
Dojo: Kaminari Shooto Dojo
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 48
England
Offline
Good suggestions.

Sorry for the double post...

all the above said, I think Clarke's suggestion and whoever it was who said that about making a general announcement about warming-down by putting the mats away are also excellent suggestions...

as is use of the word 'Bah!'
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 04:28 AM   #53
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Hehe, well, I missed class yesterday but apparently she mentioned something previously about not being able to come to sundays, and either monday/wednesday might be tough for her to get to regularly because she trains in another art elsewhere and lives a fair drive away. Or something. I suppose I will see if she appears tonight, which is the best night for a prospective student to turn up as our senior Instructor is visiting and teaching tonight. We will see.

Matt, she didnt really say much, just looked a little startled and said yeah, I think.

Again, thanks for taking the time to read and respond to this thread, whatever your thoughts and answers may have been.

The general anouncement is a good idea, I agree, but as I am not the instructor I have no right/chance to do so. Also, with new students coming at different times and the dojo being in a constant flux of people (being a university dojo) it is rather difficult to make announcements like that. A one on one chat would probably be easier, but again, as I have said, thats not my role.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 05:18 AM   #54
Josh Reyer
 
Josh Reyer's Avatar
Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
Japan
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

What about a sign?

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 06:11 AM   #55
John (King John)
 
John (King John)'s Avatar
Dojo: Prince Bishops Durham/ White Rose
Location: Durham (north east England)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 32
England
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Wow Nick, that certainly gave different views. I was there and you were just being yourself. I hope she comes back too.
Remember when that girl went off the mat to answer her 'phone? I gave some thought on how to mention the correct thing to do. Being as everyone had seen her go off the mat to answer it, I decided not to mention it in front of everyone and cause her embarrassment. So afterwards I simply spoke to her alone. I really wasn't nasty, at least I think (or hope) so. Nevertheless she must have been embarrassed and didn't return. Damn. I still wonder what would have been the right thing to do. Perhaps either way would have caused the same outcome. All part of the learning curve, I guess.

Grab my arm.....The other arm.....MY other arm
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 07:26 AM   #56
Nick P.
 
Nick P.'s Avatar
Dojo: Sukagawa Aikido Club of Montreal
Location: Montreal
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 639
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Quote:
Ian Hurst wrote:
"Howay man, move the mats, divvint just stand there like a sack of tatties" perchance?
<Dad's voice from "So I married an axe murderer" = ON>

"Oh! So you think your awesome Ki can move mats from over there, do you, without even touching them?
Everyone! Gather around! Let's all watch Miss Fancy Pants here heave mats through the air and stack them all neatly in a pile! Someone call BBC!"

<Dad's voice from "So I married an axe murderer" = OFF>

Of course there is always the classic
"Dont' just do something! Stand there!"

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 09:34 AM   #57
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Thanks John. Yeah I remember the phone incident, I think you did the right thing there and thats probably how I would have handled it. Shame she never came back, but perhaps it was just a coincidence? 2 and a half hours to Mr Sensei. Yay! Or should that be YAR! ?

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 09:35 AM   #58
John (King John)
 
John (King John)'s Avatar
Dojo: Prince Bishops Durham/ White Rose
Location: Durham (north east England)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 32
England
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Yar!

Grab my arm.....The other arm.....MY other arm
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 09:37 AM   #59
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Yar! It is then.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 09:45 AM   #60
Steve Mullen
Dojo: White Rose (Sunderland)
Location: Washington
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 270
England
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

dam it, you guys are off to train with my shane and im at work in wales, its very much not fair

"No matter your pretence, you are what you are and nothing more." - Kenshiro Abbe Shihan
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 09:48 AM   #61
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

'my' Shane? Thats sensei to you!

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 09:55 AM   #62
Steve Mullen
Dojo: White Rose (Sunderland)
Location: Washington
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 270
England
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

i meant mr (my shane : ) )

"No matter your pretence, you are what you are and nothing more." - Kenshiro Abbe Shihan
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 10:22 AM   #63
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Damn right.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 01:27 PM   #64
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 588
United_States
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Wait until she googles you and finds this thread Happens to me all the time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 03:20 AM   #65
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Haha. I google myself frequently and all that pops up is aikiweb. I can live with that

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 08:52 AM   #66
darin
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

So we will be expecting to see you on Dr Phil tomorrow?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 11:15 AM   #67
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Pardon?

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 11:29 AM   #68
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

I always help out when I visit other people's dojos, I see it as common courtesy. The way I see things if she's come to your dojo to train as a perminent member and she doesn't help with the mats it reflects very badly on her and her previous dojo. Now while I wouldn't ask a visitor to help I would ask anyone who was joining or had joined the dojo to help.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2006, 01:24 AM   #69
Mato-san
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 290
Iceland
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

You are bad Nick,
Should have let it slip the first time, maybe explain in an ordinary fashion that, at our dojo we help put away the mats at the end of class out of respect.
It was her first lesson, and wouldnt be surprised if it were her last at your dojo.
And if she comes back, its not cause she likes Nick!

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2006, 11:48 AM   #70
JAMJTX
Dojo: Aikibudo Seishinkan
Location: FORT WAYNE, IN
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 106
United_States
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

My first thought was that being a 4th Kyu, she was around another dojo long enought to understand about after class cleanup. In every dojo I ever trained in there is some kind of after-class cleanup.

There are places where there is not. Perhaps she is from such a place and did not think she needed to help. (I did visit a few that did no cleaning after class and never went back.)

Or she felt that being a "visitor" she was not obligated to help.

My own thoughts are that an inexperienced visitor who came to see what Aikido is like is not obligated to clean the dojo. But an experienced visitor would pitch in to show some appreciation for the training and an interest in joining. Not wanting to help/stick around any longer may have been an indication that she decided not to come back.

The "are you injured" question would be appropriate for a regular student who was not pulling his weight. But probably not for a visitor. Perhaps a general announcement like: "Can everyone help put the mats away" would have been better.

I don't think you were necessarily wrong to expect her to help.

Jim Mc Coy
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2006, 05:45 PM   #71
Mato-san
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 290
Iceland
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

The "are you injured" question would be appropriate for a regular student who was not pulling his weight. But probably not for a visitor. Perhaps a general announcement like: "Can everyone help put the mats away" would have been better.

.[/quote]
BINGO

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2006, 03:27 AM   #72
Leon Aman
 
Leon Aman's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 52
Philippines
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

I agree with the majority that you are bad Nick considering that you are an assistant instructor, but you didnt consider the feeling of your guest that she is not aware of your dojos rule.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2006, 05:45 AM   #73
Josh Reyer
 
Josh Reyer's Avatar
Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
Japan
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

It's funny. Recently I dropped in and trained at another dojo in Nagoya. At my usual dojo, we train in a municipal gymnasium's judojo, so we never clean after class. At the dojo I went to in Nagoya, it's a very small "sports center"; really a tiny two-room building shared by an aikido dojo, a kendo dojo, and a karate dojo. After training, the sensei made some small talk, asked if I enjoyed it, and then said, "Now, after class we put away the [i]tatami[.i]. Please help!" No muss, no fuss. But it made me think of this thread.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2006, 06:14 AM   #74
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

I'd have let it slide on the first visit. Did she come back?

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2006, 10:34 AM   #75
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Am I A Bad Guy?

Nope, she hasnt returned so far. Apparently she was injured: a bad back. Of course she may have a plethora of reasons for not telling me (or anyone who trained with her that class) but I find it a little strange that I gave her the option of saying 'yes, I am' and she did not take it...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Seminar with Frank Doran, Shihan - Aug. 8-10, 2014 at Sunset Cliff's Aikido, near San Diego's finest beaches



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:10 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate