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Old 11-24-2005, 03:04 AM   #26
batemanb
 
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Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote:
I've had something of a change of opinion about Aikido actually. I've spent the past couple of months doing Ju-jitsu in a dojo that's very application centred and suddently my Aikido has become very powerful. On one course the dan grades were slating me because I'm an Aikidoka only to come back 10 minutes later and ask me to stop using my "airy fairy" Aikido because I was being too rough on them, which would have been fine except I was only throwing them as hard as I thow the 5th kyus in my dojo because I knew the Ju-jitsu dan grades ukemi wasn't up to the Aiki version of irime nage.
So I've gone back to Aikido, although I still go to Ju-jitsu once a week.
I like that too

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:39 AM   #27
keane
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Re: Aikido against judo

Alright thank you all for your replies =) But the thing is i was firstly inspired by O Sensei, I rem reading that he easily threw both Shioda and Tohei Sensei when they "challenged" him.Both of them had Judo background.I know this isnt the best example.But Tohei Sensei cld defend himself against them too, needless to say Shioda sensei.Then i also read that Tohei Sensei's students cld do it too.I repeat his students as well.I believe when they accepted those challenges, the odds wasnt favorable to them.I need to know whether if i wld be able to defend myself if i continue practicing Aikido.Like i said before i started Aikido because i love the philosophy behind it and the martial aspect.I don;t want to learn it for like 15yrs, and i cant defend myself with it.And actually teach it to ppl when i am not even confident in defending myself.There must be something wrong somewhere.I am sure all the earlier practitioners cld defend themselves without a problem.Alright just want to know if you guys can take on your friend in just a friendly,you know,wrestling kinda thing.Not questioning the ability of anyone.I just need assurance.

Sorry i am now in a stated where i am confuse again.I really want to continue believe that Aikido is the Art that i have been looking for.But now i cant even defend myself against layman? I wld really hope if someone has the footage when Tohei sensei takes on other ppl like i mentioned just earlier.Just that probably seeing is believing.
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:54 AM   #28
NixNa
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Re: Aikido against judo

I havent gone thru the entire thread, but one piece of advice is to always supplement your aikido with other stuffs. To know a judo guy, do judo; to know a boxer, box. Live outside the paradigm and work with your friends from other arts. Have them try their stuffs on you and keep doing it and doing it.
Just ma 2 cents' worth
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Old 11-24-2005, 08:14 AM   #29
crbateman
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Re: Aikido against judo

Is there a rule somewhere that states that when you defend yourself, you must be limited by the tenets of a single art exclusively? My experience is that, in a real fight, both (or all) participants will use whatever weapons or methods will avail themselves. The primary object is to win, or to survive. Aikido training will give you more options, and perhaps afford the opportunity to keep yourself from harm, all the while minimizing damage to the opponent(s). As for Judo vs. Aikido, I think Judo brings better grappling techniques to the table, whereas Aikido is stronger on movement and avoidance. I'd much prefer to have Aikido "in my toolbox" than not.
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Old 11-24-2005, 09:49 AM   #30
Ben Joiner
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Re: Aikido against judo

Just a quick coda from the UK. I understand that to all you ladies and gentlemen from US the most effective self defense means carrying a gun and learning how to use it/deal with the consequences of using it, and that no-one's likely to attack you who's had any training in MA etc. This may be very true of the average American. It is not really the case over here. Whilst gun crime is unfortunately on the increase it is alcohol related violence that tops the charts in the likely risk of personal injury cat'. There is something of a drinking and fighting culture in areas of most town centres at night. People who go looking for trouble often know how to punch without giving their balance and falling over. They'd be pretty stupid to go looking for trouble otherwise. Many people especially in Wales have grown up playing rugby - a full contact sport with elements of grappling. I don't think it's that strange for someone relatively new to the art to wonder how their techniques would stand up under the pressure of a 'real' encounter. Especially if they've played anround with friends and had difficulty executing effective technique. As has already been stated the answer is to train hard with the right teachers and be patient. I Just feel that the question should perhaps not be dismissed so readily by those speaking from within a cultural paradigm that may not be the same as the posters.

Just my two pennies.

Ben
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Old 11-24-2005, 10:16 AM   #31
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Aikido against judo

Keane,
A number of people have tried to explain. You are not listening... It's clear that you don't trust your Aikido. You need to train more and harder and probably better. There are plenty of teachers out there in Aikido who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. I have no idea what kind of training you are getting but it sounds like its not very good. I had some of the best training available anywhere under Saotome Sensei. We didn't have this type of crisis of confidence (if anything, we were all quite full of ourselves - unrealistically I might add). If you are questioning whether your Aikido works it almost certainly doesn't.

As Ikeda Sensei says "It's not Aikido that doesn't work, it's YOUR Aikido that doesn't work."

Stop whining about wanting reassurance. Everyone has told you the solution to your problem: a) train more, harder and better in Aikido and b) learn something about other martial arts. What do you want to hear? "Oh yes, Keane, Aikido is the ultimate martial art. It is an undefeatable style!" (please supply your own out of sync soundtrack). It's not. I'm sorry, there is no Santa Claus and you are not getting slef defense competency in your stocking for Xmas.

Stop worrying about "seeing the video", it's not that interesting to someone who already knows what is going on in Aikido, in fact it's somewhat disappointing. Everybody went ga ga over Tohei's performance in the old days because no one had seen Aikido in action before, To them it was all somewhat incomprehensible. Now there are tens of thousands of folks doing the art. This stuff isn't "magic" although there is plenty that is quite "magical". Judo is an art that takes place at "grappling" range. What Tohei did was move continuously and basically slip any attempt to establish a solid platform for throwing. He didn't allow them to get him caught at "grappling range". Occasionally he'd snag something and unbalance one of the attackers who were all over committed trying to get to him. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SELF DEFENSE AND FIGHTING It was a demo with friendly ukes who Tohei didn't want to hurt.

You seem like a sincere guy... but you don't even know enough to understand what people here are telling you. I really think you should quit Aikido and go off and do a few years of mixed martial arts. That should take care of your confidence problem since no one is more over-confident about their own training than the mixed martial arts / UFC crowd. (It used to be a tie between Aikido people and the Tae Kwon Do folks but now we're tied for second.)

George S. Ledyard
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Old 11-24-2005, 10:36 AM   #32
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
Ben Joiner wrote:
Just a quick coda from the UK. I understand that to all you ladies and gentlemen from US the most effective self defense means carrying a gun and learning how to use it/deal with the consequences of using it, and that no-one's likely to attack you who's had any training in MA etc. This may be very true of the average American. It is not really the case over here. Whilst gun crime is unfortunately on the increase it is alcohol related violence that tops the charts in the likely risk of personal injury cat'. There is something of a drinking and fighting culture in areas of most town centres at night. People who go looking for trouble often know how to punch without giving their balance and falling over. They'd be pretty stupid to go looking for trouble otherwise. Many people especially in Wales have grown up playing rugby - a full contact sport with elements of grappling. I don't think it's that strange for someone relatively new to the art to wonder how their techniques would stand up under the pressure of a 'real' encounter. Especially if they've played anround with friends and had difficulty executing effective technique. As has already been stated the answer is to train hard with the right teachers and be patient. I Just feel that the question should perhaps not be dismissed so readily by those speaking from within a cultural paradigm that may not be the same as the posters.

Just my two pennies.

Ben
Actually, unless you live in some horrid neighborhoods over here its really the same. The only people I know who've used their training in self defense situations, aside from my police students, were all at places where males consume alcohol. Stay away from those places and the liklihood of the average middle class person needing to use a technique for self defense is very small.

Yes, you don't have the ability to carry firearms that we do but you don't have the liklihood of encountering a firearm used against you that we and quite a few other countries have (Russia being high on the list). The big danger in the UK is edged weapons. Once again , usually used without any warning in a fight, often from behind by a mate of the guy you are fighting. There are some films of this on various sites on the web... very scary stuff. But I'd rather have Aikido in a crowded multiple attacker situation in which people might / probably have edged weapons than Muy Thai or BJJ for sure. The only people who do REALLY effective training for this type of situation is the Russian martial Arts folks. We actually do some of their drills when we practice randori - three person knife attacks at close range. Nothing scary, all done it slow to medium speed but it gives you a sense of how you'd have to move in a real situation...

Even in your country where guns aren't very likely, I'd rather have a weapon of my own than deal with a knife attacvk empty handed. Canes are still legal anywhere. One from Canemasters will take the same beating as an expensive bokken. Facing a bunch of skin heads who really want to hurt you, I'd definitely want to have my knife if I couldn't have my gun. It's just realistic. Technology changed things hundreds of thousands of years ago. It's how this puny little being who wasn't big, wasn't strong, wasn't fast, could become the dominant animal at the top of the food chain. Nobody but a fool would purposely choose not to have a weapon when he could reasonably expect to encounter weapons being used against him.

George S. Ledyard
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Bellevue, WA
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:39 PM   #33
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Re: Aikido against judo

Um, this thread is starting to sound a little paranoid. "Beware of ninjas around every corner"
It has become the same old SD thread that we see so often.

As George said, the chances of an average Joe being caught in a mix up is small. All this self defense talk starts to tire me out. Hell, in NZ (where I live) you have a greater chance of dying in a road accident. If I was worried about protecting myself I am better off studying a Defensive Driving Course than a martial art.

Keane, either keep training or not. Words only get you so far.

"flows like water, reflects like a mirror, and responds like an echo." Chaung-tse
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:12 PM   #34
Dan Rubin
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Re: Aikido against judo

Keane

You are confusing yourself (and us) by focusing on Tohei's ability to defeat judoka. What does that have to do with your situation? Try deleting Tohei and judoka from your question, and you'll be left with this:

You were wrestling around with your friends. They did not attack you with shomenuchi, katatedori, or any of the other cool aikido attacks. In fact, they didn't "attack" you at all. Instead, they stalked you. This is totally different from the way your classmates behave in the dojo, yet you were determined to deal with your friends in the same way that you deal with your classmates in the dojo. As your friends crept toward you, you thought "ikkyo." As they crowded you, you thought "kotegaeshi." And when, finally, from a distance of one foot (30 cm) they suddenly grabbed your collar with both hands and pushed you back on your heels, you concluded that aikido doesn't work against grapplers.

This situation isn't really worthy of self-doubt. In fact, it's simply a scenario to present to your sensei. I suspect that he (or she) will explain what others have explained in this thread, about how you were playing your friends' game, how you were reacting to what they were doing instead of taking control of the situation, and how you were at a disadvantage because they knew that you were not willing to hurt them. Basically, you defeated yourself by concentrating on your concept of what aikido is, instead of concentrating on the situation as it presented itself.

Your sensei will show you what aikido looks like when applied to a friendly wrestling match with your friends. That is not what aikido looks like when applied in a public demonstration by a shihan being attacked by judoka (the Tohei example). It's also not what aikido looks like when one is attacked by thugs (the Shioda example). Nor is it what aikido looks in a movie (Seagal) or in daily life (Tohei again) or in the dojo.

You don't know what you don't know. Even though you have been practicing aikido for 5 or 6 years, you have a whole world of knowledge ahead of you (as do we all).

Keep training.

Dan
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:31 PM   #35
Ulises Garcia
 
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Re: Aikido against judo

Hello Keane,

I am not knowledgeable about aikido, as I am probably 30th kyu. However, it does seem to me that the most important thing that you have to grasp from your trianing is learning and understanding the principles of Aiki. Once you make the principles of Aiki yours, the amount of techniques available become countless. Perhaps the problem that you are having with the Judoka is the slow wrestlers approach, in which no energy is delivered to you to work on. What about making them provide the energy? What about a little taunting? What about a little "trash talking" (think of it as ATEMI. But not too hurtful, as you don't want to really hurt their feellings. Besides, it is only play fight)? If you have learned your fundamentals of Aiki, balance, movement, ma ai, etc., I think you'll be able to keep yourself just out of grabbing reach, while the guys gain momentum and provide the energy you need to best them when they go chasing after you. After all, in a fight the most valuable tool is intelligence, being closely followed up by technique, drive to win, etc. Be confident that Aikido as a martial art, provides all the tools to handle many scenarios, with little harm to the opponent. The trick, however, resides in how you apply the tools you were given. Sometimes taking somebody's balance doesn't necessarily mean physically. Sometimes it's mentally.

-U-

"He who dies with the most toys...still dies."
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:06 PM   #36
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote:
Tohei did judo before he did aikido, which give him a huge advantage over the judoka who knew little about aikido .....
Yeah, but O Sensei wasn't a Judoka, and he sent Judo black belts like Tomiki flying across the room. So the "you need Judo to beat Judo" has a very big hole in it.
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:43 PM   #37
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Smile Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
Keane Lee wrote:
Sorry i know this topic has probably been brought up like 1232144 times,but i seriously need to know whether if you guys are confident to take on and judokas or grapplers?I remember reading a book about Koichi Tohei sensei, he had no problem taking on judokas or anybody.And from what i read it seem like Aikido is able to counter Judo easily.Tohei sensei and his students had no problem.But personally,when my friends try wrestling and stuff,i cant seem to defend myself properly.Though it's playing,i tried my best,but still.. Thats why i have been questioning myself whether if i have been practicing correctly?or why is it my aikido isnt effective?Aikido is suppose to be able to defend against ppl that are bigger, but i seem to have no confidence in doing that..i cant even defend myself against a friendly game with my friends.So can anyone help me pls?
Hi, Keane,

First off, get this in your head: There's nothing wrong with Aikido. There's nothing wrong with your sensei. There's nothing wrong with the way you practice. There's nothing wrong with you.

What is the bad word here? "Wrong." Or any other word with a negative connotation. You do not want to start thinking badly in any way about whatever art you are doing. You want to emphaszie the positive -- what am I getting out of it? What am I learning? Yes, you want to be aware of where things might not work so well, but you don't want that to color your overall perception of the art.

My Kali instructor provides a good example here. He loves boxing -- not only watching it on TV but doing it himself. "It flows very nicely," he says, and even tells you what boxers excel at, like how they "know how to hit you when you think you can't be hit. They're the masters of their range." But he will also tell you what boxing doesn't address. But does this mean anything is inherently wrong with Boxing? No.

It sounds like splitting hairs but I think it's important: There's a fine line between being aware of what you do and don't train for and putting down what you do, even a little bit.

My first karate sensei also said the same things over and over again:

1. Every move has a counter move.

2. You won't win all the time.

3. There's always someone out there who knows something you don't.

Did this color the way he talked about karate or taught it? Not that I could see. But it means you shouldn't be flustered if you find someone who is better than you. It's only natural. In fact, this is why I wasn't floored when the Gracies started taking out strikers. They were proving my sensei right, so what was the big deal?

I sometimes wonder if some people are drawn to Aikido by reading aboout the feats of O Sensei and his disciples and think they will become invincible. When that doesn't happen, they go the other way and think Aikido is almost worthless. That may be why you start to see things like "Aikido is not about fighting," or "We train for the street, not a sport," or even, "Master such-and-so knew Judo before he knew Aikido, so of course, he could beat Judoka." So your choices are you are either invicible or totally helpless -- all or nothing.

That helps. Yeah. Right.

Reality is somewhere in the middle. Guro Dan Inosanto always says, No one art has all the answers, but everything has something to offer. Aikido does work and does have something to offer you, but it may take a while to dope out what. Confusing, I know.

I agree with what Leyard Sensei says about how rare martial artists are in our culture, but in your situation that can sound like sour grapes: "Ok, so you pinned me again, but I'm not going to get mugged by a wrestler! <sniff>" Doesn't really help, and can lead to having negative feelings and a chip on your shoulder at the same time.

So what can you do about your friends?

Well, what's happening is you are being faced with techniques you have not and will not see in the dojo, and they are screwing you up. Again, it is only natural that would happen. I ran into the same situation myself twenty years ago, when I started karate. I would spar with friends of mine who had some training and a lot of street experience, and they constantly counfounded me with the things they did. The fakes and tricks were bad enough, but the main thing were the low stomp kicks and side kicks to my kneecaps. They weren't full force, thank God, but they screwed me up because we didn't train against them in the dojo. (Shito-Ryu karate does include a knee kick, basically a standard front kick at knee level, but we never used it in ippon kumite and never learned how to counter it.) However, in time, I learned to watch for the things they did, and even learned to improvise blocks to those kicks. Does that mean my karate training was bad? No. If anything, my training gave me the skills I needed to come up with those counters on the fly. (At the time, in fact, I was in cat stance the whole time and never realized it until afterwards. My best friend, who was watching, noticed that.)

So my advice to you is as follows. First, remember your friends aren't (or shouldn't be) trying to hurt you. (If they are, bail.) This means there's no pressure to "win" except in your own mind. Believe me, it can be there even if you think it's not! Have fun.

Second, if you didn't see this coming, Watch what they do! Pay attention and remember the specific things that screw you up and/or how they get to those positions. The you can think about improvising counters. Note the plural. In grappling, you want at least three counters to any move he makes. If there's just one and it doesn't work, you're toast. If you have two, it's AB or BA and so after two tries, you are toast. However, with three, there are at least six orderings. The more the better. You will find out what confounds HIM; he'll let you know. "Man, what was that? What did you do to me?" Then you can gloat, in a harmonious, non-egotistitcal way, of course. Think about Aikido's principles; this is what you will draw on to generate techniques.

I make it sound like you will be giving it a lot of thought; in reality, you may find yourself learning what to watch out for, and then responding to it on the fly. But again, it should be based on principles, not trying to force a specific technique.

So I hope this helps. Remember: Have fun, don't get mad, and try to learn from watching what they do instead of getting flustered by it. It's a game. Have fun and don't be a sore loser when it happens.

With Respect,

Mike
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:54 PM   #38
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
Keane Lee wrote:
Alright thank you all for your replies =) But the thing is i was firstly inspired by O Sensei, I rem reading that he easily threw both Shioda and Tohei Sensei when they "challenged" him.Both of them had Judo background.I know this isnt the best example.But Tohei Sensei cld defend himself against them too, needless to say Shioda sensei.Then i also read that Tohei Sensei's students cld do it too.I repeat his students as well.I believe when they accepted those challenges, the odds wasnt favorable to them.I need to know whether if i wld be able to defend myself if i continue practicing Aikido.Like i said before i started Aikido because i love the philosophy behind it and the martial aspect.I don;t want to learn it for like 15yrs, and i cant defend myself with it.And actually teach it to ppl when i am not even confident in defending myself.There must be something wrong somewhere.I am sure all the earlier practitioners cld defend themselves without a problem.Alright just want to know if you guys can take on your friend in just a friendly,you know,wrestling kinda thing.Not questioning the ability of anyone.I just need assurance.

Sorry i am now in a stated where i am confuse again.I really want to continue believe that Aikido is the Art that i have been looking for.But now i cant even defend myself against layman? I wld really hope if someone has the footage when Tohei sensei takes on other ppl like i mentioned just earlier.Just that probably seeing is believing.
Hi Again, Keane,

I read this message after replying ton your initial post, and I find that you are proving one of my points spectactularly: You went into Aikido thinking, even subconsciously, it would make you invincible, and when that hasn't happened, you are starting to vere to the oppisite extreme: "There's something wrong somewhere." All or nothing. It doesn't help. Reality, as I said above, is between those two extremes. But it may take a while to figure out what it is.

As for whether Aikido is the art for you, the question is, Do you like it? Do you like doing it? If the answer is yes, then what else do you really need?

For myself, I have just had an object lesson in why one should read the whole thread first.

Don't worry about it. Have fun.

Mike
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Old 11-24-2005, 08:46 PM   #39
aikidoc
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Re: Aikido against judo

One thing likely is that the pre-war yudansha that are now shihan might have tested their aikido on different arts. I have read that Shioda did so or at least more street oriented challenges. My sensei (Jorge and I have the same one) related in conversation at our last seminar that he used to work out with karate and judo black belts when he was younger to make sure his Aikido worked with them.

As pointed out by others, perhaps it's not that aikido does not work but rather you have not found how to make your aikido work. I visited a judo/jiu jitsu dojo once several years ago (1995) and guys of comparable rank in judo had some difficulty throwing me unless I let them. The kept telling me to relax which I was doing but to them relaxing meant to let them enter on me. By extending my ki and the old unbendable arm, it was difficult for them to get inside. So they tried to sweep my feet, I would simply lift my foot and let the sweep pass by while keeping my arms relaxed and unbendable and controlling my center. Now keep in mind none of us were very high ranked and I wasn't doing anything exceptional-just adapting to the different form of attacking. I just tried to maintain good aikido principles and adjust the best I could.
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Old 11-25-2005, 01:18 AM   #40
doronin
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Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
But I'd rather have Aikido in a crowded multiple attacker situation in which people might / probably have edged weapons than Muy Thai or BJJ for sure. The only people who do REALLY effective training for this type of situation is the Russian martial Arts folks. We actually do some of their drills when we practice randori - three person knife attacks at close range. Nothing scary, all done it slow to medium speed but it gives you a sense of how you'd have to move in a real situation...
George, those "Russian MA folks" you mentioned - do you mean their Aikido people, or MMA?
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Old 11-25-2005, 01:37 AM   #41
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Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
Yeah, but O Sensei wasn't a Judoka, and he sent Judo black belts like Tomiki flying across the room. So the "you need Judo to beat Judo" has a very big hole in it.
O-sensei had experience in Sumo, which is close range grappling, just like judo.

And more importantly, I said having some experience in judo is an advantage against a judoka; I never said you need judo to beat judo. If you want to beat judo to beat judo, you better be the better judoka!
I did judo as a child and when playing around after aikido class I noticed how easy it is to give a cautious attack, twart the other person's attempt at aikido, which will make you end up in close grappling range and then use judo. You need to be really good to apply aikido to the cautious attack or to apply aikido principles at a closer range than they were designed for.
So to generalise, if you want effective aikido, get comfortable in ranges that are not aikido, especially get to know some close range grappling. A year of judo, bjj or wrestling would be plenty. You're not doing it to master those arts, you just want to get the basic idea what they're about. That way when someone closes in on you, your experience will give you a chance to look for aikido principles. Otherwise you'll get uncomfortable, need too much time to adapt and to think, and you will lose.
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Old 11-25-2005, 04:55 AM   #42
DaveS
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Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
I read this message after replying ton your initial post, and I find that you are proving one of my points spectactularly: You went into Aikido thinking, even subconsciously, it would make you invincible, and when that hasn't happened, you are starting to vere to the oppisite extreme: "There's something wrong somewhere."
To be fair, if after five or six years of learning a technique, you find that you can't apply it to an uncooperative opponent, it's reasonable to question whether you've been doing something wrong. I haven't been learning aikido for bvery long, so I'll defer to the more experiencesd types who are disagreeing over the answer.

On the other hand, I would venture to suggest that the OP risks crippling his spiritual development and harmony with the universe by trying shodokan - I'd have thought that if you can learn to stay standing up and counter in shiai, it'll at least help you to do so when playfighting with your friends...
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Old 11-25-2005, 05:43 AM   #43
PeterR
 
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Re: Aikido against judo

The Judo guys (and yes us Shodothugs too) have a thing called tokui waza. A small number of techniques that you can pull out of a hat and apply in a number of situations. The difference betweeen a beginner and a more seasoned individual may just be in the number of tokui waza that they have honed.

One problem with much Aikido training is the vast breadth of technique that we can get lost in. Try to find what part of Aikido works for you rather than getting all of Aikido to work.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 11-25-2005, 06:58 AM   #44
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Blush! Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
Keane,
I'm sorry, there is no Santa Claus ...

I am devastated by this revelation! So I guess I won't be getting a reply to the letter I wrote.

Dan
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Old 11-25-2005, 07:51 PM   #45
Ketsan
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Re: Aikido against judo

Actually the question seems a bit odd to me since I started Ju-jitsu. At the moment I can't really seperate Aikido from Ju-jitsu and by extension Judo. I think really it boils down to ukemi. An Aikidoka can harmonise with or breakfall out of anything the Judoka or Ju-jituska can do but the same is not true the other way around.
A Judoka's ukemi isn't designed to cope with being spun around by the head before having their feet whipped 5ft in the air. If the Aikidoka keeps hold and drops to their knees and pile drives the Judoka's head through the floor you can pretty much rule out ukemi anyway. The same with Shiho nage, if they fail to take the proper ukemi and their shoulder pops it's all over. The most they can do in reply is drop us and we can cope with that.
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Old 11-25-2005, 11:26 PM   #46
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote:
.... I said having some experience in judo is an advantage against a judoka; I never said you need judo to beat judo.....
My mistake; mea culpa.
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Old 11-25-2005, 11:27 PM   #47
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido against judo

Quote:
David Sim wrote:
To be fair, if after five or six years of learning a technique, you find that you can't apply it to an uncooperative opponent, it's reasonable to question whether you've been doing something wrong....
Maybe, but the trick is to not let your own expectations get in the way. MUCH easier said than done.
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