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Old 11-10-2005, 12:38 PM   #1
Fanis Chatziapostolou
 
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Eek! Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Today at work, a fellow colleague tried (for fun) to do something that resembled to yokomenuchi.
Instinctively, I carried out a shihonage, but with out the throwing. I stopped at the part where his hand is twisted, near his head. I did not want to throw him on the floor.
We were both very surprised! He was surprised because he wasn't expecting me to react and I was very much surprised that I did it without even thinking.
It is a very big deal for me, since I have only been practicing for 2 months.
Will this get worse with time?

-Fanis

Last edited by Fanis Chatziapostolou : 11-10-2005 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 11-10-2005, 01:01 PM   #2
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Nope, but the yokomen uchi strikes will get harder!

Best,
Ron (sounds like you're training well)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 11-10-2005, 01:09 PM   #3
bogglefreak20
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Good on you, Fanis! Wow!

Will it get worse? Well I doubt the colleague still has that same sense of humour now. Next time he'll probably just tell you a joke. Or not.
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Old 11-10-2005, 01:59 PM   #4
Lan Powers
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

"Worse?" Sounds to me like you are getting "Better".
Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:49 PM   #5
Paberu
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

All ok, but it's will be better, if you throw him.
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Old 11-11-2005, 04:28 AM   #6
Dirk Hanss
 
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Quote:
Fanis Chatziapostolou wrote:
Today at work, a fellow colleague tried (for fun) to do something that resembled to yokomenuchi.
Instinctively, I carried out a shihonage, but with out the throwing. I stopped at the part where his hand is twisted, near his head. I did not want to throw him on the floor.
We were both very surprised! He was surprised because he wasn't expecting me to react and I was very much surprised that I did it without even thinking.
It is a very big deal for me, since I have only been practicing for 2 months.
Will this get worse with time?

-Fanis
Hi Fanis,
it is great. It shows, that you have talent and probably a good teacher. It also supports the opinion (theory), that a technique can be only done well, if done without intend.

I believe in me being talented, but not such as you. So I cannot tell how it will evolve.

You did react fast and stopped as well before doing harm. usually your aikido practice should improve both skills. Depending on your personality and your environment thare could be a time period, when your skills to act is growing faster than your ability to hold yourself back.

You do not need to be worried. Only be aware. If you detect such a development, just ask your sensei and/or some friends for help.

But I guess you are on the right way and even if you are a beginner and your techniques might not be the best you are probably further on the way of aiki than many, probably most, of us.

Kind regards Dirk
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Old 11-12-2005, 10:01 AM   #7
seph
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

im having the same "problem" lol, people touch me on the shoulder and i do something resembling an aikido technique and sometimes come very close to hurting them :S has anyone else put an aikido technique on as a normal refelex to being grabbed on the shoulder?
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Old 11-12-2005, 11:36 AM   #8
Mike Haftel
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Quote:
Matthew Zelic wrote:
im having the same "problem" lol, people touch me on the shoulder and i do something resembling an aikido technique and sometimes come very close to hurting them :S has anyone else put an aikido technique on as a normal refelex to being grabbed on the shoulder?
Please don't take this the wrong way, but this example shows a lack of control on your part.

As martial artists we train to respond to an action and not react to it.

If someone does something to make you flinch, they have elicited a reaction from you which you don't have control over. And since the most basic of all tenants in combat, martial arts, conflict, etc.. could be said to be control, reacting like that shows a lack of it and also means your attacker (or friendly coworker) has more control over you then you have over yourself.

If someone goes to slap me on the shoulder, I'm not gonna respond or react to it by hitting their arm or performing any type of lock or throw unless I detect some type of intent to harm me in their movement.

For example:

yesterday, during practice, we were doing a drill where one person was wearing full body pads (chest, hand, and head protection) and a person would walk up to them, pause, and then throw a commited punch (with intent, not necessarily intensity) to their chest. This wasn't a big lunge type of punch, just a normal chambered boxer punch. Every time I went to do this I would walk up, pause, and then fixate on my target. Before I even moved my body or began my strike, uke would duck out of the way or start to react to the punch which I hadn't even thrown yet. This demonstrates who was really in control of the situation.

Wow, if that wasn't a rant and a half.....

sorry.
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Old 11-12-2005, 02:23 PM   #9
ccain85
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

good job. i have been training longer than you, i wish i had those reflexes,lol. its supposed to be a spontaneous reaction like that, with no particular technique in mind. once again, very good.
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Old 11-17-2005, 07:31 AM   #10
Fanis Chatziapostolou
 
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Thank you all for your replies.
All your input was very important.
Although many say, that I am training well and I am on a good road, I am treating myself as the absolute beginner, trying very hard to do correctly, the 10% of what I am learning at the dojo from my Sensei.
I will have a very open mind in my training, suplementing it with DVDs, books, and a lot of exercise at home or the nearby forest.
I only hope to be the best I can be.

-Fanis
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Old 11-17-2005, 08:02 AM   #11
Steve Mullen
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

WIll it get worse? in time you will [probably start asking him to try a yokomen so you can test out something else you learned.

a similar thing happened to me at work. there was a big (okay fat) guy who i worked with, he was a really nice guy but loved to aim the odd playfull punch in my direction to test if i was awake. one time i caught sight of him out of my peripheral vision and parried his punch, entered and flicked his cap off his head, he stood there totally still (i tohught he was gonna really smack me this time and then started roaring with laughter saying it was the quickest he had ever seen anyone move. but that was after i had been training for way more than a few months so well done on that one.

It's all good fun, but remember normal people don't know how to fall

"No matter your pretence, you are what you are and nothing more." - Kenshiro Abbe Shihan
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Old 11-17-2005, 10:12 AM   #12
Nick Simpson
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

I once nearly put kotegaeshi on a glass collector I worked with when she snuck up behind me. I stopped at cutting down her wrist when I started thinking, she bruised easily though, so had a big red hand print on her arm for like a week. Oops.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 11-18-2005, 07:20 AM   #13
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Remember, you CAN get fired. Using martial arts on co-workers can have accidental unfortunate results and it will remain a permanent mark on your employment history. When someone calls for a reference and your employer says you injured a co-worker in that way you will NOT be hired.
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Old 11-18-2005, 09:10 AM   #14
Nick Simpson
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Calm down dear, Its only a commercial.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 11-18-2005, 09:38 AM   #15
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Well, Trevor does raise a good point. A karateka friend of mine had a friend who kept jumping out of bushes and around corners at him to scare him. One day, he picked the wrong time, and my friend broke his arm and gave him a concussion before he could stop himself. He had to carry his friend about a mile to a hospital to get treatment.

If that happened in the workplace, you could definately expect serious repercussions. I finally told that story to one of my coworkers...it stopped the jumping around corners thing cold.

Best,
Ron (even though people who do this sort of prank 'assume the risk', that might not mean that much to your employer)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 11-18-2005, 09:46 AM   #16
Nick Simpson
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

I know, but it is kind of a statement of the obvious.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:24 PM   #17
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Yeah, obvious to you and me, but apparently not to all these ninja jumping out around corners!

Best,
Ron (stupid ninja)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 11-20-2005, 08:00 PM   #18
Ed Shockley
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

I remember reading that no one could sneak up on O'Sensei after he developed his ki connection. I assume that means people tried. (Seems a dumb thing to do.) I also take that to mean that a huge part of training is developing an awareness of our sphere. I sincerely hope as I continue training that I will be a half step ahead of the fool who jumps out of a bush risking a broken nose to say, "Boo." I confess that I have only twice had such experiences and both were in my early days of training at the dojo. I flatter myself by believing that rather than a respect for my negligible martial prowess, it is a respect for how I carry myself that has discouraged such dangerous and childish behavior.
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Old 11-21-2005, 05:27 AM   #19
Nick Simpson
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

I love sneaking up on people. Not work colleagues, but my dad and the like. He always says Im close to a broken nose, but I keep pushing.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 11-21-2005, 08:29 AM   #20
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Quote:
I flatter myself by believing that rather than a respect for my negligible martial prowess, it is a respect for how I carry myself that has discouraged such dangerous and childish behavior.
[Mr. T. voice]I pitty the fool that sneaks up on Ed Shockley[/Mr. T. voice]

Ed, I can't imagine someone sneaking up on you period. 'Course, it also give me a good laugh imagining YOU sneaking up on someone...How does a mountain sneak?!?!?

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-03-2005, 08:23 AM   #21
Ed Shockley
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Even worse, imagine sneaking up on Henry Smith, Sensei. If, somehow, you did surprise him I cringe at the image of the potential for pain in his unguarded response. (For those of you who don't know Sensei Smith, he was trained by all shihan with Chiba Shihan being significant in this conversation. Plus, before Aikido, he set a European weightlifting record.-Ouch!)
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Old 12-03-2005, 08:32 AM   #22
Chizikunbo
 
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Quote:
Fanis Chatziapostolou wrote:
Today at work, a fellow colleague tried (for fun) to do something that resembled to yokomenuchi.
Instinctively, I carried out a shihonage, but with out the throwing. I stopped at the part where his hand is twisted, near his head. I did not want to throw him on the floor.
We were both very surprised! He was surprised because he wasn't expecting me to react and I was very much surprised that I did it without even thinking.
It is a very big deal for me, since I have only been practicing for 2 months.
Will this get worse with time?

-Fanis
Hello,
Worse? This is good for the most part, you will have people like this throghout our Budo training who do such things and needless to say its not good to "kung fu" every one who does, I deal wth this every day, I just laugh it off. Taika Seiyu Oyata once said that "budo is like a one million dollar sword, if you go around flashing it to everyone, peple know about it and it no longer is a defense."

Keep that in mind. But Aikido is very much "spontaneous reaction" the concept of Mu shin (no mind) and Zan Shin(prepared mind) is that of technique simply glowing out like water running down a stream when there is really intent to harm you. You can somehow feel this intent with continued training, and the technique comes out correctly, in order to protect your life, and eventually the life of your attacker, this becomes more important in advanced levels.

In any manner continue training, and always keep the concepts of Harmony, respect, compassion and love in the front of your mind, and all else will follow. Best of luck with you and your training,
Truly yours in ,
--joshua paszkiewicz
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Old 12-03-2005, 11:29 AM   #23
Mark Uttech
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

This spontaneous reaction thing is also a phase people go through.
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Old 12-03-2005, 04:43 PM   #24
Sam Williams
 
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

I am new to Aikido, but understand reacting without thinking; but i find it varies between environment and control. One of my friends almost knocked an other student out when he snuck up on him, because he was in a hostile environment and was very tense.

If one has enough control, they should be able to stop before the harm is done, or be aware enough to feel whose around them.

The pen is mightier than the sword.
But a sword
Dipped in ink,
Now,
That's a good compromise.
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Old 12-04-2005, 09:36 AM   #25
Tim Gerrard
 
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Re: Spontaneous Aikido Reaction

Quote:
Steve Mullen wrote:
WIll it get worse? in time you will [probably start asking him to try a yokomen so you can test out something else you learned.

a similar thing happened to me at work. there was a big (okay fat) guy who i worked with, he was a really nice guy but loved to aim the odd playfull punch in my direction to test if i was awake. one time i caught sight of him out of my peripheral vision and parried his punch, entered and flicked his cap off his head, he stood there totally still

It was a mirror wasn't it Steve? Don't worry it happens to the best of us, I nearly started on a mirror once too

Aikido doesn't work? My Aikido works, what on earth are you practicing?!
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