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Old 12-16-2005, 06:19 AM   #26
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Actually what i do is this, I close my eyes and of course put my hands on my stomach and visualize a red glowing energy at my Hara, and I just keep that in mind, and I stay under until I go into a deep state and end up coming out of it unintentionally. It works a bit like waking up without an alarm. This can last anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes if I'm not disturbed. Now try to understand that I have been doing this for a couple of years, I let go of trying to visualize and yet the mental belief that I have a glowing sphere in my stomach temporarily becomes a reality because I can now trick my mind. Then I go under, and I never know how long I'll stay under. And then something, perhaps the limits of my ability (that day) after perhaps 30 min comes and I just snap out of it and the way my body reacts is like spasing after hearing someone jump behind me and yelling to scare me. It's one quick full bodied shockwave.

I just want to know, does this mean I've just gotten really good at this, or is this notsogood.
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Old 12-16-2005, 08:28 AM   #27
roosvelt
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Quote:
Trevor Wolfe wrote:
Actually what i do is this, I close my eyes and of course put my hands on my stomach and visualize a red glowing energy at my Hara, and I just keep that in mind, and I stay under until I go into a deep state and end up coming out of it unintentionally. It works a bit like waking up without an alarm. This can last anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes if I'm not disturbed. Now try to understand that I have been doing this for a couple of years, I let go of trying to visualize and yet the mental belief that I have a glowing sphere in my stomach temporarily becomes a reality because I can now trick my mind. Then I go under, and I never know how long I'll stay under. And then something, perhaps the limits of my ability (that day) after perhaps 30 min comes and I just snap out of it and the way my body reacts is like spasing after hearing someone jump behind me and yelling to scare me. It's one quick full bodied shockwave.

I just want to know, does this mean I've just gotten really good at this, or is this notsogood.
I've never stayed that long, so my ability is not up there yet. From what I've been reading from books and talking to other people, I think what you experienced is normal.

It's not an indication of your ability of "into" it. It's just you have never trained how to "get out" of it. It's a distraction to think about the ending even before beginning. An external device is helpful. In the temple, a bell is ring at fixed interval. Hearing the bell, you can decide either come out or stay in, then wait for the next bell. Of course you can train yourself to come out gradually whenever you want. It's harder though.


Another topic.

I think your ability is up to there now. Probably you want to try something more? I heard that someone can strech time and spend "days" , "weeks" and an extreme case "a life time" in a setting.

Sure, a lot of people against the idea of "trying" something new. They believe it'll come when you're ready. I somehow always think a person need a "guide" internally or externally. The hard part is to choose a guide wisely. It's said some "evil" guide will lead you to unholy places, especailly the internal guide.


Again, I don't have first hand experience. Once I wanted to talk a guide, who I believe is one. She gave me some answer I didn't understand. Apperantly, I wan't ready yet.


Take all my saying with a big grain of salt because of my limited ability. You may have better luck if you talk to the right forum.
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Old 12-16-2005, 08:45 AM   #28
roosvelt
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

I forgot metioning. It that happen again. Don't fight it. Just calm down. Try to go back, then come out again. If you can't go back, it's OK. Just don't try to fight and try to come out. If you panic, it'll make it worse.

Rumor says, someone die from fighting it. I think it's purely speculation. If someone really died, how can others know the reason. You know, dead people don't talk.

I guess what they want to say is calm down, it'll go away.

Another possibility is your clothes weren't comfortable enough. Try somethin different. Then again, since you're super sensitive, your body would find something else to complain anyway.
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Old 12-16-2005, 08:50 AM   #29
roosvelt
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Another contrifactor is you might have a nerve injury that manifest itself thousand times during that stage. Coming out properly will solve this pain. But you may want to find the pain point to check if you have problem there. Try to remember where the pain started.
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Old 12-29-2006, 08:56 AM   #30
Mike Galante
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

What the _____ does bending nails have to do with Aikido?
This is a destructive act.
Don't meditate to destroy!
There is way too much of you in your practice. Open your heart.
Love is more powerful than anything.
God bless you,
Happy Holidays.
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Old 12-29-2006, 09:00 AM   #31
Mike Galante
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

You know my teacher used to say, one day a tibetian monk begain flying around the meditation hall, the next week he was in the circus.
All great yogis develop powers, but basically don't use them, all these things are maya, illusions, a trap. Get off the trian there and waste a few lifetimes.
Happy Holidays
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Old 01-18-2007, 08:38 PM   #32
Mike Galante
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Cool Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Quote:
Trevor Wolfe wrote:
Lately when in deep Ki mediation, when I finally come to, my body reacts in a quick spasm like someone just jabbed me with a high voltage wire. This is strange, I am wondering why this happens. I believe it must have something to do with coming out of that deep a meditative relaxed state. Does anyone else get this effect?
That's because you just charged your inner battery with high voltage energy. Be aware of your spine during zazen and when the energy expands in Tanden, let it flow up the spine (kundalini) to the top of the head where you leave it to "marinate" over time and ripen into cosmic consciousness in the crown chakra.
Ueshiba had a higher consciousness and spoke of uniting heaven and earth. So the upper centers must be opened too in order to achieve this.
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:55 AM   #33
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Trevor: You're a very good writer and have some very interesting points of view; especially the way you put in those twists about the samurai and being able to take one breath while crossing a bridge.

Have you ever thought about writing a book about Zazen and the Martial Arts?

aikido shinkikan
www.shinkikan.com

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Old 02-28-2007, 05:10 PM   #34
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Evil Eyes Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Quote:
Erik Calderon wrote: View Post
Trevor: You're a very good writer and have some very interesting points of view; especially the way you put in those twists about the samurai and being able to take one breath while crossing a bridge.

Have you ever thought about writing a book about Zazen and the Martial Arts?

aikido shinkikan
www.shinkikan.com
That was a very nice comment, Domo!

Stop thinking and the mind begins to think for itself.
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:43 AM   #35
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Evil Eyes Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Third Eye Meditation

Ok, third eye meditation, nobody has three eye's, clear, great! However, I've discovered this. Lay down and chill out (Relax), put a penny between your eyebrows so you have something to focus your attention on. Close your eye's. Force your eyes to roll up and try to look at the penny with your eye's closed.

Think of it this way, test my theory by closing your eyes, look to the right with your eyes still closed, press the tip of your finger against the the corner of your closed right eyelid by where your nose bridge and brow meet but right in the socket, roll your finger slightly and you can see the little green light of your right pupil rolling around under your eyelid.

So again focus your closed eyes on the penny, as your relax deeper in meditation, you reach the alpha state, where as someone previously stated is like a lucid dream. The lights of your pupils beneath the lids will become visible an begin to slightly roll around as in rem sleep. Focus yet still on the penny. As your concentration builds the lights will begin to come closer together and finally halt together as an eclipse, (inner eyelids are reflective, when faint light shines through your eyelids it bounces off your eyeballs and relatively inevidently reflects the image of your eyeball back.

When the lights cross the reflection of both eyes appears as on and you can see an eyeball with your eyes closed, not quite normal, but it will happen.

Stop thinking and the mind begins to think for itself.
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Old 03-16-2007, 06:22 AM   #36
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Shall elaborate later. Ta!

Stop thinking and the mind begins to think for itself.
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:40 PM   #37
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Evil Eyes Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Quote:
Trevor Wolfe wrote: View Post
Third Eye Meditation
When the lights cross the reflection of both eyes appears as on and you can see an eyeball with your eyes closed, not quite normal, but it will happen.
What I meant was, when the green lights, which are your pupils lenses begin to meet, the reflecting light bouncing back and forth behind your closed eyelids will reflect the image of both eyeballs as one. Translation, you will see an eyeball with your eyes closed.

Stop thinking and the mind begins to think for itself.
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:03 PM   #38
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Something I am interested in hearing about from people are thier views on state of mind, you know all that "no minded jazz"!

My view is thus, the mind is like a modem, there is cable and there is dial-up, to depend on thought is like a dial-up modem it takes time. However common everyday though involves conversing in your own mind "mental chatter" people tend to verbalize words or actions before they are preformed, this is slow.

The human mind can calculate 2+2 without counting in ones head, you just know what the answer is. Everyone can fight, it is instinct, whether physical or not. To to think is slow, what is the cure, it literally is after consistent meditation involving lower abdominal breathing of which will strengthen the muscles in the stomach which press against organs and such creating a sensation one can focus on.

To focus ones mind on keeping ones fists closed or on another point such as the Hara one cannot think while acting, one can only act. This results in faster decision making. After all as my former teacher said, a masterful sword fight might last an average of .20 seconds. It is about action not thought, thought is a plague of mind.

Stop thinking and the mind begins to think for itself.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:34 AM   #39
Mike Galante
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

My sentiments exactly, well put, Trevor.
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Old 04-08-2007, 02:56 PM   #40
DivinePrincess
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Wow, that was quite a lesson.

I can tell you all have been studying this for a while.

It's going to be nice learning from you all.
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Old 04-10-2007, 01:41 AM   #41
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Quote:
Trevor Wolfe wrote: View Post
Lately when in deep Ki mediation, when I finally come to, my body reacts in a quick spasm like someone just jabbed me with a high voltage wire. This is strange, I am wondering why this happens. I believe it must have something to do with coming out of that deep a meditative relaxed state. Does anyone else get this effect?
Yeh this happens to me when I do my sufi practises/prayers call em what you like.
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Old 04-10-2007, 12:43 PM   #42
mike.quinn@fsmail.net
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

There is something very pure about aikido, and just observing from the mat I realised this as a novice. It sparked an interest in the culture it came from and from this point I learned about meditation. In medidation we learn to abandon our day to day thoughts and clear our minds and allow the natural state of our peaceful mind to regain the centre. Like aikido this is not easy. It takes practice. but the martial advantage of a clear mind is you focus on the situation in hand and not the outcome such as fear or anticipation. Clarity is the aim which assists your actions. If you can keep a clear mind it is beneficial in areas of our life , not just in the dojo, or outside. The samurai realised this and trained their minds as well as in technique. In a multiple attack we all come undone because we think too much. It makes us rigid and slow, so knowing that this happens I would endorse anyones decision to look into this tried and tested method of training. Go along to a meditation class, find a good teacher, I'm sure you will find it interesting.
Hope this helps.

Mike.
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Old 04-15-2007, 07:05 AM   #43
Mark Uttech
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

This my be a bit off topic, but on my last birthday when I was presented with a birthday cake with 54 candles, I blew out 52 on the first try. That says something for breath meditation, which I do daily.

In gassho,

Mark
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Old 04-15-2007, 07:23 AM   #44
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Zazen Meditation, Haragei and Focus

Mark, I turned sixty a few weeks ago and in a similar vein blew out all sixty candles in one gusty breath... no doubt, in my mind, to years of pranayama and vocal music exercises... but then someone's comment quickly added a slightly different view... "Wow, this proves it... we knew you full of hot air!"

Most likely, both are true.

Chuck Clark
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