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Old 10-31-2005, 08:25 AM   #26
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Re: Uchi Deshi?

Quote:
Shioda G. wasn't,
Time to visit the AJ archives Peter. Shioda Kancho was definately an uchideshi. Before the war, and for a time he and his family lived at Iwama after the war as well.

Having slavery in my family history, I personally can't believe someone would equate it to being an uchideshi. Seems rediculous.

Best,
Ron (this has nothing to do with who is best...that is 'entirely subjective' and in some ways rather silly when you think about it)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 10-31-2005, 09:01 AM   #27
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
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Re: Uchi Deshi?

The heart of being a deshi to me, is putting your own needs second. - Service.

For anyone raised in the modern egocentric world (including myself) this is a difficult lesson well worth learning.
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Old 10-31-2005, 09:01 AM   #28
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Uchi Deshi?

Quote:
The son of a noted pediatrician, Gozo Shioda enrolled in the Kobukan Dojo in May 1932, prior to entering Tokushoku University. He became an uchideshi while still a university student and served as a teaching assistant to Morihei Ueshiba in the Tokyo and Osaka areas. Shioda trained under the founder until he left Japan in 1941. During the war, he worked in a civilian capacity in China, Taiwan, Borneo, and the Celebes.

After the war, Shioda spent a brief period training under Ueshiba in Iwama.
From
http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=193

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 10-31-2005, 09:53 AM   #29
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
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Re: Uchi Deshi?

Quote:
Ted Ehara wrote:
On AikiWeb from the links portal Uchideshi Programs
....
Useful response, Ted! Nice post.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 10-31-2005, 06:07 PM   #30
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Uchi Deshi?

Uchi Deshi training was not "legalized slavery", it was rather like the old Western "apprenticeship system" crossed with being an officer in the military. On the one hand, one did serve the needs of the teacher. The sensitivity required to know when something is required by the teacher almost before its need has consciously registered has a direct benefit in the development of a martial artist. This is VERY demanding training. Saotome Sensei has said that the kind of uchi deshi training he went through wouldn't be approriate for most Westerners because they are too individualistic. This wasn't a negative value judgement, just a statement. It does explain why he has never attempted to form an uchi deshi program in the States despite his being here for over thirty years.

The uchi deshi also had teaching responsibilities for the non-uchi deshi and that placed them in a special place within the dojo community. Saotome Sensei had quite a number of dojos and clubs which he oversaw at the request of Honbu dojo to whom they had applied for an instructor.

Like the modern military ones family was tied into the structure as well. Ones spouse would be junior to the spouse of the teacher and would have responsibilities relative to the welfare of the junior deshi and their wives. The teacher's spouse would be the senior spouse. Probably not much fun to be the wife of the junior uchi deshi, that would have been low point on the totem pole.

Actually, many of the wives of the teachers who conducted uchi deshi programs are the unsung heroes of the early days of Aikido training. Often they functioned as surrogate mothers for the young deshi, many barely out of their teens. So the responsibilities didn't just flow up hill. The deshi were "family" and the teacher and his spouse were responsible for their upkeep and welfare.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 10-31-2005, 06:16 PM   #31
PeterR
 
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Re: Uchi Deshi?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Time to visit the AJ archives Peter. Shioda Kancho was definately an uchideshi. Before the war, and for a time he and his family lived at Iwama after the war as well.
Depends on how you define uchideshi.

Used to be you lived in the masters house and in exchance for food, lodging and instruction you attended to his needs. Very few meet that strict definition.

Legal slavery - well not quite since payment was the instruction. It was not an easy life. The deshi being sent to Iwama to attend Ueshiba M. after the was often found the duty onnorous.

Last edited by PeterR : 10-31-2005 at 06:21 PM.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-31-2005, 07:23 PM   #32
ad_adrian
 
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Re: Uchi Deshi?

being an uchideshi was a great honor in japan
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Old 10-31-2005, 07:47 PM   #33
PeterR
 
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Re: Uchi Deshi?

Adrian

It all depends on who it was with and for what. The closest Western concept was the old apprenticeships where yes the child was sometimes actually bought and sold.

In a sellers market (ie a famous artist martial or otherwise) sometimes a money payment was made to the master or there was some other benefit such as political connection (son of a supporter). In these cases competition could be quite fierce as there was usually only one or two - so yes there was a certain pride attached to being chosen.

Soto-deshi (students that lived outside the Master's house) were still burdened by many duties they just slept elsewhere.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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