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Old 10-22-2005, 11:36 AM   #1
actoman
Dojo: USA Martial Arts Center
Location: West Virginia
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Trying something new...

Hey all,

Would training in Juijutsu(not brazillian) complement or hurt my aikido training. They seem to be very closely related, although juijustu includes more strikes and even a few kicks, but very few flashy moves.

Thanks
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Old 10-22-2005, 02:20 PM   #2
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
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Re: Trying something new...

It depends on you, your experience, your training, and personal objectives. Please look through a bunch of the threads that we have on aikiweb discussion the pros and cons. This has been discussed ad naseum here.

I find it to be complimentary in nature, certainly nothing in brazilian jiujitsu contradicts the principles of aikido. However, how it works for you, well, that depends on you.

Also look up threads on cross training as it is related.

Good luck.
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Old 10-23-2005, 03:24 AM   #3
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: Trying something new...

First, aikido IS a form of jujutsu (as is judo); understanding that the term 'jujutsu' is a generic description of a broad variety of Japanese (and lately non-Japanese, more on that in a bit) unrmed or lightly armed fighting systems.

Aikido was developed from a basis of (primarily) Daito Ryu Jujutsu, sometimes called Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu. Ueshiba studied a few other systems to some degree, but his primary training and budo growth were in DR. Technically, aikido COULD be called 'Ueshiba-ha Daito Ryu Jujutsu', but for several reasons, Ueshiba and his decendants have settled for simply using the generic term 'aikido' to label the system. It's sort of like somebody naming an automobile company 'Car' ... but that's another discussion.

Would jujutsu complement your aikido? Maybe. There's a lot of crap jujutsu out there, quite often not even, technically speaking, jujutsu either. It's a label that got mis-applied terribly in some circles. BJJ has good claim to using the term, though their reasons were a bit backward in my mind. Many systems of 'jujutsu', however are little more than a cobble-together of a little karate, a little judo, a little whatever seminar the creator had attended that had caught his (or her) fancy.

I'm a big proponent of pointing aikido folks toward other traditional Japanese systems for complementary training; iaido or jodo for weapons, judo or trad. jujutsu for grappling at a closer (let's get in each other's jackets) ranges, Shotokan or similar karate systems for striking.

However, I also contend that aikido, taught properly COULD address each of those adjunct skills; but sadly, seldom does. A few aikido senior folks have worked hard to develop a more well-rounded aikido (the late Nishio Sensei comes to mind).

Bottom line, as Kevin pointed out, is find something YOU enjoy and can take something from. That might be along the lines of my reccys or might be something entirely different. If practicing aikido and escrima at the same time floats your boat, go for it ... just try not to get the two too mixed up in class!

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Old 10-23-2005, 09:43 PM   #4
actoman
Dojo: USA Martial Arts Center
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Re: Trying something new...

Thanks chuck....so is Jujutsu(trad.), which I was implying about, 'harder' than trad aikido?
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Old 10-24-2005, 04:47 AM   #5
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: Trying something new...

Hey Andy,

Trad. jujutsu harder than aikido? Some of it is, some is very, very soft and 'aiki'. Some systems span a much broader spectrum of 'hard' and 'soft' than aikido. There are dozens of extant systems of traditional Japanese jujutsu, and many of the sogo budo include components of jujutsu within their curriculae.

Some trad. JJ is incredibly soft and effortless, some is pretty much wrestling. Some uses weapons, some don't.

What style of jujutsu are you looking at? I could probably talk to you more clearly, or do some research on the system for you if I knew that.

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Old 10-24-2005, 09:30 AM   #6
ian
 
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Re: Trying something new...

Quote:
Chuck Gordon wrote:
First, aikido IS a form of jujutsu
Why do you want to train in 2 different styles? The techniques of ju-jitsu are almost identical to that of aikido (although ju-jitsu sometimes employs more strikes). I'd say the main difference in aikido is we focus on blending (i.e. not using excessive force, and being able to change technique appropriately).

However I have seen ju-jitsu clubs that blend more than many aikido clubs. In aiki-jitsu (where aikido came from) there were 3 levels of achievement - the 1st being more linear with more strikes (more similar to ju-jitsu) and the 3rd level having more blending (more similar to what most of us would call aikido).

I would consider training in both simultaneously a bit pointless and maybe even confusing, unless you want to get more training time in overall. Personally I would try both out and determine which I prefer. If you were to follow a traditional route you may actually start with ju-jitsu since it is usually easier to pick up basic step-through techniques which don't require blending. However your choice should be influenced more by the quality of your instructors.

Although I started in aikido I've done a bit of ju-jitsu, but found it very frustrating because it was too formalised in the attack reconstruction. We go on about aikido not being 'realistic' but we forget in many other martial arts the attacks are even less realistic (attackers may resist, but often stand exactly where they are, and they don't do another follow up attack if it results in a struggle. Also the response is often fixed and with little room for adaptation and understanding of basic principles (fundamentals!))

Therefore, go for the best instructor and the one you enjoy the most - you can always do the other later!

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 10-24-2005, 11:10 AM   #7
Ketsan
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Re: Trying something new...

I do Aikido and Ju-jitsu, I find each helps with the other. I actually find Ju-jitsu more Aiki than Aikido.

Last edited by Ketsan : 10-24-2005 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 10-24-2005, 03:09 PM   #8
actoman
Dojo: USA Martial Arts Center
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Re: Trying something new...

If that's the case, I'll stick with my Aikido for the time being. I just was wanting to explore a bit to see what if any difference there would be.

I went to a class this past Saturday in JJ, but it was not harder than aikido, there locks were a bit different in that they seemed to use the fingers more and a bit more yanking on joints, but for the most part nothing diff.

I like my instructor (the new one I found btw) and the art, it affects my mental outlook daily and love that about it. I'll stick with it. THanks for all your input.
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Old 10-24-2005, 04:33 PM   #9
SeiserL
 
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Re: Trying something new...

Quote:
Andy Orwig wrote:
Would training in Juijutsu(not brazillian) complement or hurt my aikido training.
IMHO, everything complements everything else if you have an open enough mind.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 10-24-2005, 04:39 PM   #10
aikigirl10
Dojo: Aikido of Ashland
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Re: Trying something new...

If u like the style of aikido , im sure you will like the style of jujutsu, because aikido is derived mainly from jujutsu. But like someone up there^^ said.. why would u want to train in 2 styles of fighting that are very similar... unless u just like that style.But im sure it couldnt hurt your aikido at all, if anything it would improve it. Whatever u do its up to you.. just have fun and enjoy every minute of it!

-Paige

Last edited by aikigirl10 : 10-24-2005 at 04:40 PM. Reason: add
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:09 AM   #11
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
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Re: Trying something new...

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
. But like someone up there^^ said.. why would u want to train in 2 styles of fighting that are very similar...

-Paige
The difference really is in emphasis. For example you could use Tenchi nage or O soto gari. Tenchi nage sends them tumbling, O soto gari places them at you feet so you can finish them off.
Studying Ju-jitsu has helped me see where Aikido is really coming from. Irime nage is amazing, it looks to me like each variation is a Ju-jitsu technique in and of itself. On saturday I was at a Ju-jitsu course and I saw one of the dan grades basically do chudan tsuki irime nage, except that his body positioning was such that uke was forced over his hip, they call it Koshi Garuma, I think. Could be wrong.
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