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Old 10-21-2005, 12:22 PM   #26
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Well, James...

If this thread leads to something, and I find people who have tapped into the spiritual side of Aikido, you may indeed have something very cool on your hands!

But, in the meantime, I'll slip you a little gem I've learned over the years. But keep this under your hat, okay? It's a secret!

Quote:
To learn and become proficent at Aikido, you have to get on the mat and actually DO AIKIDO!
Shush! Don't tell anybody...

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Old 10-21-2005, 03:15 PM   #27
James Davis
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Thanks, Bozz.

If I don't float away in flood waters this weekend, I'll talk to ya later.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:54 PM   #28
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
See, we live in a world of political correctness these days. O'Sensei's philisophical teachings were greatly misunderstood at the time and think, therefore, were widely disregarded. This seems to have perpetuated a teaching of aikido that focuses on the "art" of aikido and the martial aspects of it, leaving a great deal of the spirituality completely out of the picture... and thus, Aikido today is missing something.
Perhaps in a general sense, but I think that depends on how one would define "missing." I think there are places which more or less mirror what OSensei was trying to convey. I think a big part of why this is generally true has to do with your remark about the state of the world today. Certainly in America there is a general tendancy to avoid anything non-Christian. Not that intolerance is rife, but simply that people tend to absorb information through the lense of their previously standing inclinations and presumptions, right or wrong. The dojo I train at in the states is a Shinto shrine and there has certainly been a level of adjustment for me...and I'm very very open-minded when it comes to spirituality, so i can imagine how that plays out for others with stronger opinions. Coincidentally, I may have been having a flash-back but I recall seeing a spark of bright blue light at the finger-tip of the Sendai Guji, Yamamoto Yukitaka, of Tsubaki OKami Yashiro of Mie-ken. He never trained in Aikido so far as i know though. It was after a particularly genki experience carrying the Mikoshi of Tsubaki America. All that "wa shoi"-ing can really go to the head.

Quote:
And it's a big something, imho.
For me spirituality is a big part of life. Aikido reflects my personal philosophy about life in general and so, for me, there is a strong spiritual aspect to Aikido. At Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja (in America), we practice a short Shinto meditation at the end of training whenever Sensei Barrish teaches.

Quote:
Terry Dobson was quoted once as saying,"The form of aikido is the enemy of aikido." He never went on to explain what he meant by that. But as I type, I think I'm getting an idea of what he was saying. We can get so wrapped up in the form: hand position, foot work, atemi, angles, ma ai, etc. that we forget about the philisophical ramifications of what Aikido is a manifestation OF!
I think most people who are interested in martial arts are interested in learning physical self-defence. However, I also think it's next to impossible for people these days to have the time OSensei did to devote toward budo. You say it's rare that people are doing what OSensei intended for Aikidoka to do, but it's just as rare that we find someone who devotes that much time to it. The ascetic life-style is itself very rare these days.
Take care,
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:14 PM   #29
aikido funky monkey
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Now i'm not sure if this exactly what your talking about but I once while training at an in dojo special one week class for more advanced students i got this feeling like the earth shot an enormous amount of ki into my legs and throwing up in the air. I had kind of experianced mushin(no mind) and it was almost as if I was watching a video when the video camera is the persons eyes. the video showed me throwing this girl over and over again with incredible energy and each throw shot out bursts of ki( i didn't physically see it.) i would then take incredible ukemi like id never done before.
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Old 10-22-2005, 01:51 PM   #30
tedehara
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
See, we live in a world of political correctness these days. O'Sensei's philisophical teachings were greatly misunderstood at the time and think, therefore, were widely disregarded. This seems to have perpetuated a teaching of aikido that focuses on the "art" of aikido and the martial aspects of it, leaving a great deal of the spirituality completely out of the picture... and thus, Aikido today is missing something.

And it's a big something, imho...
Today people write about learning the founder's Aikido. Has anyone really has gotten a direct understanding? What people call "Aikido" today is a result of his students' interpetations. See:
Is O-Sensei Really the Father of Modern Aikido?

The one thing about the founder was his inability to communicate. A good example of this was his speech during the Hawaii dojo opening. See:
Nonaka Sensei

While this story is given as a humorous incident, if you think about it seriously it has large implications. A senior Aikido instructor and a Buddhist priest, both native Japanese speakers, could not honestly understand what the founder was saying. Today there are several translators who can give you their spin on the founder's philosophy. It seems that some translators are actually giving their point-of-view rather than simply translating the founder's philosophy.

There was a spiritual side to post WWII Aikido. However it wasn't the founder's Omoto derived understanding. It was Koichi Tohei's exposition of Ki. His teachings are also influenced by Tempu Nakamura and Tetsuju Ogura of Ichikukai

To support this, you can read about it from someone who was there before Koichi Tohei's departure from Honbu. See:
Msg from Bill Knittle May 6, 1993 4:37pm

So this spiritual void was actually created by the political process.

Last edited by tedehara : 10-22-2005 at 01:53 PM.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
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Old 10-24-2005, 10:18 AM   #31
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

TED!

Thank you! Excellent information! Nonaka Sensei has been a VERY lucky man to have lived the life he has. The have the honor of meeting O'Sensei, Tohei Sensei and been able to ask questions of both of them to get a very full picture of Aikido.

I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the information you've presented here, but I felt compelled to say THANKS after reading that first link, because I think you are spot on in answering my question. This article was very relevant and a joy to read.

One thing in particular stood out from Nonaka's article:

Quote:
There are three ways to win over someone:

by brute force, but the person will never forget that and will get back at you.

by intelligence. You trick him. Say you dig a hole so that when he attacks, he falls into the hole. But he still won't forget and you can't trick him twice.

by winning the person over by showing him respect. . . But you must show respect first and earn respect from the other side. That's true victory, and it must come from the heart.
That magnanimous spirit is what Tohei calls intoku, which is akin to the Buddhist and Christian ideal of unconditional love or compassion.

"So marriage is not 50/50. It's 100%-100%. You give 100% and your wife gives 100%, and so two sides are totaling 200%. I've got to keep reminding myself of that! I have to practice what I preach!" Nonaka admits sheepishly.
I once told a friend of mine that THAT was what True Love was: 100% given in exchange and 100% received in return. The concept of marriage being 50/50 partnership is too business-like and degrades the roles of husband and wife to just being "co-haitants." That takes out off the emotion and leaves just "paying bills" and "taking care of the kids" and totally ignores the reasoning behind getting married in the first place. No wonder we have such a high divorce rate in America these days.

Anyhow... I greatly enjoyed the article. Looking forward to the rest of it as well!

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Old 11-14-2005, 03:52 AM   #32
James Kelly
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
Doka of the Day - October 18, 2005
Has anyone on this forum ever experienced this?
Never happened to me, but i had a sensei once describe something like it and then say, 'when that happens, sit down!'...
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Old 12-02-2005, 09:11 PM   #33
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Hello,
I dont want to say I have, but I kow what you are talking about.
I am also a reiki teacher/practicioner, and in Reiki you have to open up chakras in order for them to flow. I think that we all who practice the way of Aiki manifest this but mostly it is not relized until the time has come that we have a deeper understanding of the true spirit of Aikido, and we have the understanding to encounter and utilize the energy we have had all along. This side of Budo is all to often ignored in place of the physical, howeer it is essential, and without it the art is not whole. However too much focus on this does not allow us to develop correctly in the way. Just let it happen naturally and you will know when the time is right, all I can say is practice, practice practice, and make the way of compassion, love and harmony the very essence of your being, and things will natrually flow into place, like the flow of a river fills all crevices it may encounter, it just takes time and steadiness for it to reach them. In time all things manifest themselves and become apparent, just let it happen.
Yours in aiki,
--joshua paszkiewicz
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:16 AM   #34
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
I have read one or two other cases where a martial artist had become so involved in their art, that they felt they had opened up a "chakra" at the 'one point' location. Upon doing so, they can feel and actually see the energy from one point come up through their body and permiate throughout.

When I read today's "doka" of O'Sensei, I knew that was what he was refereing to. However, "to make such spirits appear is the Way of Takemusu" makes me wonder why more aikidoka don't experience this phenomenon.... or do they?
I think that most aikidoka don't experience this for two reasons.

1. They have enough trouble learning the physical aspects that they haven't yet opened their mind to learning the spiritual aspects. Until you reach about a yondan level, you are still learning a lot of physical timing, body placement, relaxing, etc. An aikidoka doesn't really get into the deeper spiritual realm because they haven't yet mastered the physical one.

2. They block out/ignore/don't believe/etc in the spiritual aspect. It's just a bunch of BS about seeing energy, no-hands throwing, etc. And sadly, there are some out there who teach a "no-hands" throwing that is fake, so it justifies these aikidoka who say it's all a bunch of BS. There are very few who can "show" or "teach" in the spiritual realm.

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
Has anyone on this forum ever experienced this? I'd be curious to hear what others have seen and felt. I realize this is also a rather personal subject, so if you don't want to elaborate, that's okay. But to know others out there HAVE felt this would be good information.
Personally, I've seen, felt, and experienced too much for me to NOT believe in the spiritual aspect. So, yeah, you can put me in the seen and felt and done column. Can I do it at will? Nope. I don't feel like I'm even close, but ask me again in a few years. And I don't know much about chakras but I do know about state of mind, breathing, and being highly receptive. I really can't describe things well, but it's like your breathing becomes so insignificant that you can't tell it's there. Your breathing has no sound, but you are breathing. The state of mind is almost like you've stepped outside yourself and you feel like if you moved just a bit more, you could see yourself. Weird, I know. Almost like a disconnected feeling or the start of one. My theory is that your mind is either connecting to the subconscious or the layer below that and that's why you feel a disconnectedness -- your conscious self is being bypassed. Just my theory, though. At times, it isn't like I really "see" energy, but rather my mind displays the energy for me. Almost like there's two projections being displayed in my mind -- one from my physical eyes and one from my mind and they're both overlapped. Other times, it seems like I am "seeing" energy.

Anyway, some believe, some don't. Some experience it, some don't. Everyone has their own life to live. Me, I just do the best I can with what I have. And that's usually way too many questions and way too few answers. LOL.

Mark
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Old 12-14-2005, 03:06 PM   #35
Mark Uttech
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

sigh... everyone is looking for shortcuts, there are no shortcuts. Wonderland.
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Old 12-14-2005, 03:22 PM   #36
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Who said anything about a shortcut? I'm looking to understand a possible phenomenon, find out if it exists, if it does not, if it does... who has experienced it and how/when/why/what/where, etc.

I take it you, Mark, think the whole thing is hogwash? Great. Thank you for your input. Exit is to the right.

Have a very Merry Christmas!

PS: Read my post # 26 at the top of page 2.

Last edited by John Boswell : 12-14-2005 at 03:24 PM.

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Old 12-15-2005, 02:14 PM   #37
Mark Uttech
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Read post #26. Very good post. I noticed I have a certain meanness of spirit that arises from time to time. Sigh. Another thing for me to study, or at least be mindful of. In gassho.
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Old 12-15-2005, 03:16 PM   #38
James Davis
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
Read post #26. Very good post. I noticed I have a certain meanness of spirit that arises from time to time. Sigh. Another thing for me to study, or at least be mindful of. In gassho.
You're not alone in that, Mark. We all have rough days.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 12-16-2005, 08:24 AM   #39
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Yeah, but most of us don't admit it. Kudos.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-16-2005, 09:28 AM   #40
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

I not only admit it... I post on it and ask for ADVICE!

MAN! Am I a humble guy or what???

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Old 12-16-2005, 10:40 AM   #41
James Davis
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
I not only admit it... I post on it and ask for ADVICE!

MAN! Am I a humble guy or what???
Yes, Boz. The whole world loves you.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 12-16-2005, 10:49 AM   #42
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

It's good to be the King... humble though I may be.


(ROFL! I crack myself up sometimes. )

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Old 12-16-2005, 10:57 AM   #43
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Well, SOMEBODY has to do it...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:07 PM   #44
JAMJTX
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

I took a photo of Aikidoka/Iaidoka while he was joingly cutting a cake with a sword. Although it was a "fun time" he was still instinctively in a proper stance with correct grip, etc.
When the photo was developed there was a ball of light right at his "one point" and another at his forehead.

I showed the photo to a friend who is not a martial artist. He said that his martial arts are so highly developed that he opened up a chakras.

I never discussed this with the subject of the photo. I might do that some day and see what he thinks.

Jim Mc Coy
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Old 12-16-2005, 05:40 PM   #45
Mark Uttech
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

this might be a dumb question, but do you think a firefly might be a flying chakra?
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Old 12-16-2005, 10:32 PM   #46
JAMJTX
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

It was no firefly, or anything else other than a ball of light.
I would post the photo but I don't want to dp anything to embarrass or put this Sensei on the spot here.

Maybe I can scan the photo and do some photoshop work to make the person un-identifiabel and upload it.

Jim Mc Coy
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Old 12-17-2005, 09:39 AM   #47
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
this might be a dumb question, but do you think a firefly might be a flying chakra?
You know, Mark... That's a very interesting question. Chakra? No. But is there a corelation to the light that fireflies give of... and other living creatures? If they produce enough energy to give off light.. wouldn't everything that lives? Is THAT energy Ki?

Very interesting.

(*Man... are people gonna think I'm a whacko! ROFL! I don't care. I like being philisophical! I wish more people would be. This world is to damned "hard core" these days... people need to lighten up and broaden their horizons!*)

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Old 12-17-2005, 12:19 PM   #48
Mark Uttech
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Onegaishimasu. Wow! There actually is a Japanese story where a huge swarm of fireflies are actually a torch bearing army and they depict a famous battle yearly by the sea. I believe Lafcadio Hearn wrote about the phenomena.
In gassho
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Old 12-18-2005, 06:25 AM   #49
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

I am not sure about the feeling described in the quote.

However, I don't think there is a separation in practice of technique from spiritual seeking. (For me).

I think the very mindful-ness of leading, receiving, accepting and taking care of uke's energy can only make us more compassionate.

Mary
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Old 12-18-2005, 08:55 PM   #50
eyrie
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

This might be of interest....
http://kundalini-gateway.org/awaken/a_narda.html

Ignatius
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