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Old 10-18-2005, 10:08 AM   #1
John Boswell
 
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Have you ever experienced this?

Doka of the Day - October 18, 2005

Quote:
The honored techniques of ki
May manifest the spirit of the Great Snake
Or that of Bees.
To make such spirits (tama) appear
Is the Way of Takemusu.

- Morihei Ueshiba
I have read one or two other cases where a martial artist had become so involved in their art, that they felt they had opened up a "chakra" at the 'one point' location. Upon doing so, they can feel and actually see the energy from one point come up through their body and permiate throughout.

When I read today's "doka" of O'Sensei, I knew that was what he was refereing to. However, "to make such spirits appear is the Way of Takemusu" makes me wonder why more aikidoka don't experience this phenomenon.... or do they?

Has anyone on this forum ever experienced this? I'd be curious to hear what others have seen and felt. I realize this is also a rather personal subject, so if you don't want to elaborate, that's okay. But to know others out there HAVE felt this would be good information.

Thanks!

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Old 10-18-2005, 10:12 AM   #2
aikigirl10
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

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Old 10-18-2005, 10:35 AM   #3
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Sounds wierd, I know. But those who know what I'm talking about will definitly know what I'm talking about.


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Old 10-18-2005, 10:44 AM   #4
po_courcelles
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Yeah Opium or LSD does that to some people....

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
--- Albert Einstein
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:47 AM   #5
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Know what you are talking about.

Nope, never personally experienced it.

O'Sensei also said that no one was following him. IMHO, he meant that few, if any, of us follow the mystic side of him. Those are the techniques and application that open, balance, and clear chakras as well as clear or eliminate the mind to allow kami (spirits) to spontaneously manifest.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:49 AM   #6
James Davis
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

When I was at a seminar with Mary Heiny Sensei at the University of Miami, she instructed us to visualize something similar to what you described. When uke took hold of my wrist, I moved toward him so that our hands were closer to my center. When I lifted my hand, keeping it close to my body until it was above my head, it seemed effortless. After I had brough uke's hand nice and high, I dropped it in an arc to the floor.

I had done all of this stuff before, but only thinking of body mechanics and how best to throw a person. When Sensei Heiny told me to visualize my ki as a fountain, it changed my technique a little. He wasn't being thrown, he was riding a wave!

I've also observed the changes that come over people when you think about how your mood is affecting them. When I'm angry, you see me coming a mile away, regardless of my facial expression. When I'm happy, it's generally infectious to those around me, and they end up being happy too.

So far, I haven't "seen" the flow of my ki, but I can visualize it. For those that don't believe in ki's existence, my visualizing it just makes me better able to effect body mechanics; to some it's just physics. Wierd how it works, either way.

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Old 10-18-2005, 11:11 AM   #7
Eric Webber
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
Doka of the Day - October 18, 2005



I have read one or two other cases where a martial artist had become so involved in their art, that they felt they had opened up a "chakra" at the 'one point' location. Upon doing so, they can feel and actually see the energy from one point come up through their body and permiate throughout.
Reminds me of Carlos Castaneda's books, particularly "Tales of Power."
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Old 10-18-2005, 11:21 AM   #8
tedehara
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
Kishimaru Ueshiba wrote:
Although the founder had a deep interest in philosophy, he probably would not have known of the philosophies of ancient India.
The Mysterious Power of Ki pg 143

One could say that opening up a chakra is an interpretation of what the founder's doka is about. However the doka does not mention one point or hara or tanden. There is no mention of the human body at all.

In any poetic interpretation there is a certain amount of latitude involved, but I try to interpret within the structure of the piece, rather than use it as a mirror of my own mind.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 10-19-2005, 02:55 AM   #9
nekobaka
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

I have not heard of fellow aikidoka being able to do it, but the "real" feng shui practitioners are supposed to be able to see the ki in order to do an accurate assessment. I do know someone who does chalkra meditation, and is working on seeing auras. This kind of spiritual awareness doesn't come from just doing aikido regularly, it requires a lot of time devoted to meditation as well. In fact this person started doing aikido in order to work towards such an ability. She's only been practicing a year now, and therefore just keeping up takes up most of her energy. I have thought about it myself, but most of the time I am too caught up in practice itself and forget to concentrate on anything that is beyond the physical . I think even if you concentrate on it, it would take a very long time. After 10 years I'm still not there, maybe after 20 or so I hope I will be. For most people in the secular world it's not going to happen.
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Old 10-19-2005, 11:49 AM   #10
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

We're all in our heads.
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Old 10-19-2005, 12:34 PM   #11
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Chakra openings and spirit appearance are routine phenomenon not only during our every aikido classes, but in daily life. That’s how aikido influences daily life of many aikidoka.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 10-19-2005, 08:05 PM   #12
nekobaka
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

ChrisHein wrote:
[PHP]We're all in our heads. [/PHP]
I completely agree. Anyone see "what the bleep do we know"?

NagaBaba wrote:
[PHP]Chakra openings and spirit appearance are routine
phenomenon not only during our every aikido
classes, but in daily life.
That's how aikido influences daily life of
many aikidoka[/PHP]

I wonder if it's just that I live in Japan and very few people talk about spirituality. I think I would expect to hear about it more in boulder, colorado, than osaka.
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Old 10-19-2005, 10:06 PM   #13
PeterR
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
Ani Forbes wrote:
I wonder if it's just that I live in Japan and very few people talk about spirituality. I think I would expect to hear about it more in boulder, colorado, than osaka.
Ani states what so many of us eventually discover.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-20-2005, 12:38 AM   #14
Charles Hill
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
Ani Forbes wrote:
I wonder if it's just that I live in Japan and very few people talk about spirituality. I think I would expect to hear about it more in boulder, colorado, than osaka.
But is this a good thing or a bad thing? To the Founder, the spiritual part was primary. This aspect seems to have largely disappeared in the general Japanese Aikido world, upon his death. I have heard and read many comments that Japan is spiritually bankrupt. There was a recent tv program on religious rituals in Japan and they quoted a poll that found that only about 30% of Japanese people believe in God (in whatever form.) This was far less than any other country listed in the poll.

When George Ledyard wrote about the difference between Aikido in Japan and out in his what is Aikido article, this kind of thing is what came to my mind. There seems to have been more of an effort to change the Founder`s Aikido into something that fits prevailing cultural norms inside of Japan than out.

Charles
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Old 10-20-2005, 12:54 AM   #15
PeterR
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
There seems to have been more of an effort to change the Founder`s Aikido into something that fits prevailing cultural norms inside of Japan than out.
I wonder how true that is. I found a marked tendency to describe Aikido spirituality along Judeo-Christian lines outside of Japan or at least in the some of the forums. Sounds like a prevailing cultural norm to me.

Ueshiba M. was famous for his philosophical discourses (understood by students or not) but I don't see much discussion of this during and after practice today. Do you think that tendency (prevailing cultural norm) has changed over the years? I was under the impression that it was always so or at least the proportion of dojos that engaged one way or the other has not changed.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:33 AM   #16
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

See, we live in a world of political correctness these days. O'Sensei's philisophical teachings were greatly misunderstood at the time and think, therefore, were widely disregarded. This seems to have perpetuated a teaching of aikido that focuses on the "art" of aikido and the martial aspects of it, leaving a great deal of the spirituality completely out of the picture... and thus, Aikido today is missing something.

And it's a big something, imho.

Right now, aikido in the world we live in is very hit-and-miss when it comes to finding just what the founder was trying to teach. Kato Shihan, at age 72, says that he is only now starting to understand some of the things O'Sensei was trying to teach 40 and 50 years ago. I think, to focus solely on the techniques, the martial aspects, the form of aikido... leaves the art incomplete.

Terry Dobson was quoted once as saying,"The form of aikido is the enemy of aikido." He never went on to explain what he meant by that. But as I type, I think I'm getting an idea of what he was saying. We can get so wrapped up in the form: hand position, foot work, atemi, angles, ma ai, etc. that we forget about the philisophical ramifications of what Aikido is a manifestation OF!

I'm getting really deep. I'll stop right here and see who's keeping up.

Please, chime in! This is becoming a better thread than I had hoped.

Last edited by John Boswell : 10-20-2005 at 10:35 AM.

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Old 10-20-2005, 11:03 AM   #17
Camille Lore
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

I found a little book over the weekend- it's a pocket book called The Way of Peace, which is some of O Sensei's thoughts and writings. I've been having a rough week and trying to focus on them and doing more ki excercises. Last night in class, we did the rowing exercise and with the first breth out, I experienced this mental image of my breath being gray with all of these black flecks and kind of asterisks in it coming out of my mouth. This is the first time I've ever experienced this. It's nothing I saw with my eyes, but I meantally saw it... if you know what I am saying. This brought to mind the manifestation of the bees.... I wonder if this is the type of thing he wasy talking about.
Can anyone define takemesu for me?
Thanks....
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Old 10-20-2005, 11:20 AM   #18
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
TAKEMUSU AIKI
AIKI which gives birth to martial techniques. An expression coined by Morihei UESHIBA to refer to the highest level of aikido where one is capable of spontaneously executing perfect techniques. These characters appear frequently in Ueshiba's calligraphic pieces. It is also a popular choice for dojo names.
http://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclo...hp?entryID=667

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Old 10-20-2005, 11:46 AM   #19
James Davis
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Aikido is about "letting go" for me. When I train with my classmate, I don't think about his eight years of training in the marines or how much larger he is than me. I don't think about his years of MA training since his return to civilian life. I don't think about how (grrr) serious he is about "getting" me, be it with a punch, a kick or a grab. I just relax, smile, and toss him on his duff. Then a person, who only moments ago was serious as a heart attack, is on the floor laughing like a little kid.

Don't try to stop the train; just hop on.

A "trick" that helps me sometimes is visualizing a sword in my hand. I send my ki through my fingers and extend it like the blade. If I've grabbed someone, then they get to be the sword.

Step 1: (In the words of my sempai) Move your body and get the hell up out of the way!
Step 2: Let the uke be the one that works hard.

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Old 10-20-2005, 01:22 PM   #20
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
A "trick" that helps me sometimes is visualizing a sword in my hand. I send my ki through my fingers and extend it like the blade. If I've grabbed someone, then they get to be the sword.
JAMES! I've had this thought... about 70% of the thought... off and on over the years, but you just NAILED it for me! And it suddenly makes kotegeishi make SO much more sense!

Sensei was showing us kotegeishi the other night, and we needed to bring our hands up and over quickly. Seemed weird at the time. BUT... if you capture the hand and you're standing tenkan, mirror image with the uke, suddenly I see you MUST raise the sword turn and cut!

I'm getting off subject, but this was killer... good point! Thanks... gonna steal this one.

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Old 10-20-2005, 01:46 PM   #21
Tim Heckman
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

I was at a seminar with Abe Seiseki sensei last month, and I did have a similar experience. He was performing a technique towards the end of the Sunday session, and I saw his hands (and the energy he was projecting) extend like swords and open like blooming flowers.

Now, I will admit that I did not see anything outside the realm of physical experience, but the effect of observing this was very direct, very powerful, and (to me) completely undeniable. It certainly will continue to inform my aikido experience and training.

"Shut up and train."-- Fumio Toyoda
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Old 10-20-2005, 02:09 PM   #22
MaryKaye
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

I once saw Mary Heiny sensei apparently cut down an uke with the sword in her hands, only there was no sword there. The impression of the sword was so strong that it was difficult to believe what I was seeing.

I also found it incredibly difficult to see which techniques she was doing no-touch and which she was doing with contact--there didn't seem to be any dividing line at all. The strong impression was that there was always contact but sometimes from quite a distance.

This is the closest I've gotten to being able to see energy in aikido; I've trained to do so in other contexts but haven't been able to transfer that training very much so far.

Mary Kaye
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Old 10-20-2005, 04:44 PM   #23
James Davis
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
JAMES! I've had this thought... about 70% of the thought... off and on over the years, but you just NAILED it for me! And it suddenly makes kotegeishi make SO much more sense!

Sensei was showing us kotegeishi the other night, and we needed to bring our hands up and over quickly. Seemed weird at the time. BUT... if you capture the hand and you're standing tenkan, mirror image with the uke, suddenly I see you MUST raise the sword turn and cut!

I'm getting off subject, but this was killer... good point! Thanks... gonna steal this one.
You're welcome Bozz. You could also think of sankyo as hasso no kamae...

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Old 10-20-2005, 04:55 PM   #24
John Boswell
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Hasso no kamae...?

Stolen.

Oh, the fun I'm gonna have at my next weapons class!

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Old 10-21-2005, 11:00 AM   #25
James Davis
 
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Re: Have you ever experienced this?

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
Hasso no kamae...?

Stolen.

Oh, the fun I'm gonna have at my next weapons class!
All right, Boz, that's two. When are you gonna come up off something cool for me?

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