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Old 10-17-2005, 01:58 AM   #1
stelios
Dojo: aikido dojo nippos Crete
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Breakfalls can be a problem!

One of the hardest parts in my third year Aikido training (though not always ) is taking breakfalls.
In response to a well oriented cote-gaeshi one or two of my classmates will take a breakfall without even thinking and it looks pretty natural too! When it commes to my turn , most of the times I consider it to be an ardous task. Sometimes I will take an excellent breakfall, other times I will land flat on my back (hurts a lot) while some other times I will clamp my genitals as my legs fall on the last step of the fall.
My teachers (my previous and current one) always say head down first and the legs will follow. I know that this is absolutely true but apart from that any other suggestions?
thank you in advance
stelios
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Old 10-17-2005, 03:29 AM   #2
Dirk Hanss
 
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Hi Stelios,
unfortunately it is very difficult to do breakfalls slowly.Yet, to me it seems very important to feel, when you will touch the mat shortly before you're down.
So it might help to start with very soft mats like used for high jumps. Take a springboard or trampolin, if you have a chance and jump. Start with a simple roll, try a complete somersault or even more, and when you are confident in these, you can try weirder jumps.

As a young boy I jumped very often from the diving board into the pool sometimes with 2 or 2 1/2 flips. It is a strange feeling as you never really know about your position, but you get a good feeling when to open for diving. Now I am 44, but about twice a year I am on the springboard tower and test my skills and trust.

Nevertheless not every breakfall goes well. But If I fear them, it does not work at all.

HTH - at least a little bit


Dirk
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Old 10-17-2005, 07:43 AM   #3
SeiserL
 
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Quote:
Stelios Papados wrote:
In response to a well oriented cote-gaeshi one or two of my classmates will take a breakfall without even thinking and it looks pretty natural too! When it commes to my turn , most of the times I consider it to be an ardous task.
IMHO, when your instructor said to go head first and your legs will follow, they probably also meant to get your head ("without even thinking") out of the way. if you think its "an ardous task" it will be.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:37 AM   #4
akiy
 
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Hi Stelios,

By "breakfall," I'm thinking you're talking about a "forward flipping in the air and slapping when one hits the ground" kind of breakfall. In general, I take all kinds of slapping falls as breakfalls (regardless of direction), but I'll use this definition for my post here.

I would say that working on your landing from various exercises (starting on the ground) may let your body learn the proper position for landing. If your body doesn't have the proper landing position "wired" in it, no matter how well your body may turn in the air, you'll sometimes end up landing incorrectly which will make future breakfalls that much more stressful to do (which, of course, will often cause hesitation, tension, and so on which can lead to a sub-optimal breakfall, thereby re-enforcing the vicious cycle). The fact that you feel taking a breakfall is arduous leads me to believe you're in this unfortunate cycle. Best, then, I think, to allow your body to establish good patterns rather than create bad ones.

Personally, I don't advocate the use of things such as landing pads or spring boards, as I feel that only makes the body learn patterns that it'll have to work out of in the future. Better, I think, to learn through exercises without those kinds of crutches. Sure, it may help some people, but I think there are many exercises out there that can help people attain the same skills, too.

Any way, I'd probably say "chin tucked" rather than "head down" when entering into a breakfall as that creates more of a body shape more suitable for one. "Head down" to me has a "face towards the ground" connotation. A breakfall, in the defintion that I'm using, is basically a "contracted" forward roll -- as though you put an apostrophe to take out a few letters or syllables from a word, you're taking out a bit of horizontal component from a forward roll. Its basic shape is still that of a forward roll...

Just some thoughts.

-- Jun, who incidentally just did a one hour introductory breakfall workshop this past Saturday.

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Old 10-17-2005, 08:48 AM   #5
Qatana
 
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

One of my sempai showed me a way to practice landing properly without the added problems of "letting yourself fall" rather than "throwing yourself into a fall":
get on your hands and knees. Put one arm across your body,reaching under your opposite arm. Have a partner take your hand-they will probably need to crouch or bend. They stand up straight, your arm goes up and the rest of you follows! This has been good for me because it gives me actual "air time" rather than trying to take a roll in mid-air & then trying to land right.
Now I just need to get people to do this with me more often!

Q
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:02 AM   #6
aikigirl10
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Quote:
Stelios Papados wrote:
One of the hardest parts in my third year Aikido training (though not always ) is taking breakfalls.
In response to a well oriented cote-gaeshi one or two of my classmates will take a breakfall without even thinking and it looks pretty natural too! When it commes to my turn , most of the times I consider it to be an ardous task. Sometimes I will take an excellent breakfall, other times I will land flat on my back (hurts a lot) while some other times I will clamp my genitals as my legs fall on the last step of the fall.
My teachers (my previous and current one) always say head down first and the legs will follow. I know that this is absolutely true but apart from that any other suggestions?
thank you in advance
stelios
Hello. As i've stated in other threads breakfalls have come very natural to me because I learned them almost immediately when i began training, and since i was only 8 when i started, its kind of hard for me to imagine someone having trouble.

But i think when you break it down, the main thing is not to think about it too much. Just do it. Take a deep breath... remind yourself of the correct way to do it.... do it.

Sometimes whenever i do my rolls and stuff slowly they end up all screwed up because in my head im saying "ok, lean over this hand goes that way , this hand goes this way, my butt goes over my shoulder... blah blah blah" And i get so concentrated on what im saying that i end up hitting my head on the mat or going flat on my back like you just said. But when i do it fast without thinking at all , then its almost perfect. So, personally i think that the key to doing it well is to just do it.

And of course just keep the fundamentals in mind (dont cross your legs upon landing, go over your shoulder not your head , etc) but dont dwell on it right before you do it. At least thats what screws me up.

-paige
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:24 AM   #7
roosvelt
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Quote:
Stelios Papados wrote:
One of the hardest parts in my third year Aikido training (though not always ) is taking breakfalls.
In response to a well oriented cote-gaeshi one or two of my classmates will take a breakfall without even thinking and it looks pretty natural too! When it commes to my turn , most of the times I consider it to be an ardous task. Sometimes I will take an excellent breakfall, other times I will land flat on my back (hurts a lot) while some other times I will clamp my genitals as my legs fall on the last step of the fall.
stelios
Since your classmate can take breakfall pretty well, why don't you ask them for advice? I found sometimes, a senior follow classmate knows the "tricks" better than Sensei, because the Sensei usually learned the breakfall at least 10 years ago and forget the hurdle of a beginner.

It's said that Donovan's Ukemi tape is excellent. But I don't have it yet. I'm waiting for the DVD version.

Do a search on the Aiki Web forum, there are already plenty of good advises. I'll offer my limited experience here though.

1. Load all your weight on your front leg (left leg in this example).

Make it stay on the ground as long as possible while reach out with your right hand to touch mat. Bend your front kneel, if you're flexible enough you rig hand can touch the mat while your left fee is still on the ground. ( I can't, I see someone does it. resulting a very soft fall).

2. Kick your leg up vertically.

Not horizontally. Visualize the breakfall like a big VERTICAL circle.

3. From there, you don't have much choice in your level. Later on, you can experiment with 2 different landing. one is hand, arm, shoulder, back, leg, like a reverse front roll (this one is harder, I haven't fully get it right. I can only do it when condition is right). The other is shoulder, arm, hand (bang), then back, right leg (smaller bang), then left leg (smallest bang).


4. Do solo practice after class. You need to push off with your front leg (left leg) to get going. (The same thing if someone doesn't throw you hard enough, you need to push off with your front leg. Then again, if the nage doesn't throw hard enough, you don't need to do a breakfall.)
It's harder to do than a experience guy throwing you. But if you can do it solo, you can take it from anyone.

About the second crashing leg in your case, don't worry about it. It's already too late. From kote-gaeshi breakfall, I never find the need to land the second leg except to get up to attach again. I can keep it in the air as long as I like. In your case, I suspect that you put too much weight in your rear leg (right leg) before launch.
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:03 PM   #8
Karen Wolek
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

The best advice I got so far.....kick nage in the head.

Not really, ha, but that's how far up you want to kick your leg, to almost kick nage in the head. Of course, at the time I was told this nage was a nidan and was not about to LET me kick him in the head. I wouldn't try this with a 4th kyu nage or something, LOL.

What I think is.....head down, feet up.

Good luck. Keep practicing!

Karen
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Old 10-17-2005, 02:01 PM   #9
SmilingNage
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

The basic high/break fall, in the general most of terms, is nothing more than a roll suspended above the mat. So before advancing to break falls, really put the time into basic rolling ukemi. When you have become proficient enough to absorb/blend with the energy of a throw and safely roll, Then look into break fall ukemi.
Once you have become good at rolling ukemi there really isnt a need to do breakfalls. In my understanding, its a last resort, an act to save life or limb. Basically you have been cut off from rolling, and the breakfall is the last out. Many teachers dont endorse breakfalls.
So my advice would be to concentrate on rolling ukemi, then go forward into breakfalls. Breakfalls are alot of fun and beautiful to behold, just not always necessary to do. A word of caution is to make sure you use a sempai that can support high falls safely. Hopefully in time that will cut down the dreaded male aikidoka "ringing of the bells" syndrome

Last edited by SmilingNage : 10-17-2005 at 02:12 PM.

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Old 10-17-2005, 05:07 PM   #10
Joe Jutsu
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Quote:
William Oakes wrote:
The basic high/break fall, in the general most of terms, is nothing more than a roll suspended above the mat. So before advancing to break falls, really put the time into basic rolling ukemi. When you have become proficient enough to absorb/blend with the energy of a throw and safely roll, Then look into break fall ukemi.
Once you have become good at rolling ukemi there really isnt a need to do breakfalls. In my understanding, its a last resort, an act to save life or limb. Basically you have been cut off from rolling, and the breakfall is the last out. Many teachers dont endorse breakfalls.
So my advice would be to concentrate on rolling ukemi, then go forward into breakfalls. Breakfalls are alot of fun and beautiful to behold, just not always necessary to do. A word of caution is to make sure you use a sempai that can support high falls safely. Hopefully in time that will cut down the dreaded male aikidoka "ringing of the bells" syndrome

Great post! One way that has helped me personally is to do "slap rolls," where one goes into a forward roll/zenpou kaiten and instead of rolling all the way through, slap the mat and extend your legs as you would in a forward breakfall. At this point, check yourself. Is everything where it needs to be? This should take out the element of fear involved in rotating while mid-air. As previously stated, the front breakfall is essentially a front roll in mid-air. So this method should teach your body the correct position for the landing while rotating, though not while rotating through the air. This should eventually get the muscle memory to take over. Also, in my experience, the better the nage the easier it is to take the fall. Find the highest ranking sempai, or ask you sensei for some one on one mat time. It is truly invaluable.

Also, it is unnecessary in aikido ukemi to have the "top leg" fold over to have the sole of that foot slap the mat. I've found that in order to preserve the "family jewels," I sort of extend that top leg and don't let it collide with the lower leg to avoid the nutcracker phenomena. Of course that is for aikido ukemi, judo is another matter .

You may also be well served to ask your nage's to "let go" at the point of the throw, as opposed to "hanging on" which necessitates a breakfall. I practice a softer style than most, which definitely doesn't encourage breakfalls (though they are definitely there). But, for instance, in munastuki kotegaeishi (koteoroshi), nage can choose to "throw away" the uke, by letting go, or hang on the their wrist, which necessitates a breakfall. Rolling out of technique is less scary for a lot of people, in my experience.

FWIW,
Joe
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Old 10-18-2005, 01:48 AM   #11
stelios
Dojo: aikido dojo nippos Crete
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Breakfalls can be a problem!

A great many thanks to everybody for the replies.
True, my teacher hardly ever includes breakfalls in our everyday practise as he is convinced that ordinary falls will do just fine in most cases.
I guess practise will get me there eventually.
Thank you again.
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:18 AM   #12
Pierre Rood
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Quote:
Roosvelt Freeman wrote:
1. Load all your weight on your front leg (left leg in this example).

Make it stay on the ground as long as possible while reach out with your right hand to touch mat. Bend your front kneel, if you're flexible enough you rig hand can touch the mat while your left fee is still on the ground. ( I can't, I see someone does it. resulting a very soft fall)
Left foot forward and then reach with your right hand to touch the mat?

I thought you should roll with the arm on the same side as your forward leg. Left leg forward, roll on left arm, left shoulder.

I wonder, anybody??
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Old 10-18-2005, 03:30 AM   #13
Satyre
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

In a forward breakfall you usually roll over the same arm/shoulder as the leading foot.

However if you're feeling adventurous you can also roll over the opposite shoulder. (Practiced this on Sunday at a seminar, it was quite funny)

The films from Donovan Waite really are good.

I'm concentrating a lot on ukemi/falling techniques at the moment too. My aim is to finally get me forward breakfalls nice and soft. I've seen a couple of ukes lately who (depending on the technique) land like feathers, regardless of how hard they get thrown.
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Old 10-18-2005, 07:25 AM   #14
roosvelt
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Quote:
William Oakes wrote:
The basic high/break fall, in the general most of terms, is nothing more than a roll suspended above the mat.

Once you have become good at rolling ukemi there really isnt a need to do breakfalls. In my understanding, its a last resort, an act to save life or limb. Basically you have been cut off from rolling, and the breakfall is the last out. Many teachers dont endorse breakfalls.
The front roll version of "breakfall" is a valid option too. But I think it's more like to touch the mat with their first, elbow, front shoulder or rear shoulder, then roll on the mat from there. I guess it's just different angle of looking at the same thing.

But in Kote-gaeshi of this topic, i don't think the rolling version works well. In Irimi-nage, if the nage put his/her leg behind your back the proper way, the rolling version won't work either. In shiho-nage, if the nage put too much down ward pressure and hold your wrist until you're on the ground, the rolling version won't do well either. In koshi-nage and juji-nage, you have to be good and nage allow you to roll out.

In the ikyo, nikyo and sankyo, how do you rollout? You need front breakfall to save your face, literally.

Break fall is no more than basic physics, that one part of your body going down, the other part try to go up to slowing the down ward pressure. It's usually done by using your abdominal muscle to throw your leg up.

The teachers who don't teach "breakfall" have robbed their students a simple and effective self-defense method.
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:14 AM   #15
SmilingNage
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Re: Break falls can be a problem!

"But in Kote-gaeshi of this topic, i don't think the rolling version works well. In Irimi-nage, if the nage put his/her leg behind your back the proper way, the rolling version won't work either. In shiho-nage, if the nage put too much down ward pressure and hold your wrist until you're on the ground, the rolling version won't do well either. In koshi-nage and juji-nage, you have to be good and nage allow you to roll out."

Not for nothing, but if you get trapped from doing a roll, either forward or back, during a throw, its either an exceptional Nage or bad ukemi. I lean towards bad ukemi.
Uke really needs to protect himself during the course of a throw. You cant always rely on nage to watch out for you. In fact, you shouldn't rely on anyone but your own ukemi. Ukemi is self reliance and about self preservation. High/Break falls require alot of trust between Nage and Uke. The great teachers will often put you in a situation where you have to take the high fall, but their control is such for the most part your high fall will be safe as their lead directs how and where you will fall. Nage should throw in responsible safe manner,but Uke needs to be in control as well.
That being said You can pretty much take back rolls for shiho-nage,irimi-nage,,juji-nage, pretty much any projection regardless of the speed at which you are working.The high fall from shiho-nage is a forward roll in nature. The fall mechanics are similar except you don't have the benefit of putting your arm on the mat to do a roll with. Most high falls from koshinage are merely rolls around or over Nage. Kote Gaeshi is one the easier throws to learn how to take high falls from. As Nage can change the height of fall by adjusting how high he holds and releases Nage arm. Low release points make it easier for learning Ukes to roll over their wrists. The higher the release point is higher the tougher it becomes to do the high fall. As Uke must leap higher to get over their wrist.

"In the ikyo, nikyo and sankyo, how do you rollout? You need front breakfall to save your face, literally."

Its been my experience, that rolling out of these techniques is a means to escape or leads to Henka waza(reversals). Also while those techniques can be used a projection( which can be rolled out of) for the most part they lead to pins. Good ukemi, which in this case experience and body movement, prevent face planting by using the uncaptured arm to support the body so uke can lower him or herself to the mat.

The teachers who don't teach "breakfall" have robbed their students a simple and effective self-defense method.[/quote]

" A break fall is good ukemi gone bad" not sure who I robbed that line from I think it may have been my sensei. Basically You survived up to a point, but now you are forced to take a break fall, ie all other options have failed, time for the back up plan or my joints/arms will give a new meaning to the phrase double jointed. Break falls are great to know, as they give you more options,survivability, but good fundamental forward and back rolls ukemi for the most part will get you through most ukemi situations.
Break falls aren't simple, in fact not a very natural response. Just think if they were so simple almost no one would be injured if they fell or tripped. If simplicity could be associated with break falls, Then the world would look like it had been taken over Chinese acrobats and everyone could preform high falls on command and never be injured. Could you imagine walking downtown in NYC where everyone would take break falls instead of falling/tripping? It would be a insurance company's nightmare or dream( a world where no ever slipped or fell, a world with a bunch leaping daredevils. ) AIG beware as the aiki community releases a torrent of break falling pedestrians onto your streets.
Not every dojo is equipped with mat that can support high fall training. Not every student can take high falls. Not many students reach a level of proficiency or talent to learn break falls and the list goes on. So there are alot of circumstances , safety of practice being the utmost concern, for not teaching high fall.
Aikido is silent art, in that most of the learning comes from training. Actual hands on practice(lots of it) is the best way to get a point through. So I would differ to your teacher and sempai to show you the way, especially in matters of ukemi. You may pick up some good advice through conversation, but it is through practice that lessons will be learned and truths brought out.
That been my experience so far(though I haven't come across a city whose citizenry has been trained by Chinese acrobats) maybe yours are different.

Last edited by SmilingNage : 10-18-2005 at 10:25 AM. Reason: bad grammar jeez

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Old 10-18-2005, 10:21 AM   #16
roosvelt
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Quote:
Joe Proffitt wrote:

Rolling out of technique is less scary for a lot of people, in my experience.

FWIW,
Joe
Isn't that a Aiki Fruit comment?

I thought you're supposed to be scared sometimes. Without fear, how can you improve? I never think Aikido advocates avoidance, but rather to face your fear, guide your fear, and blend/overcome your fear.
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:24 AM   #17
Amendes
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Firstly, OUCH!

For genital protection one must have the top leg land behind the lower leg.
Otherwise it will not be pretty a lot of the time.

It's automatic for me now. I think you only have to do the genital squish wrong once to burn it into your system.

Either then that flow is very important.

I practise ukemi by myself lots. I just throw myself around.
I haven't figured out how to throw myself for shionage or iriminage yet, and I think I won't try, certain high falls just should be paired. However the forward ones are alot easier, and can be practised alone with relative ease. It's like rolling in the air. Just remember what I said about that leg. Don't let it go in front on the impact, have it end up behind.
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:47 AM   #18
roosvelt
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Re: Break falls can be a problem!

Quote:
William Oakes wrote:
Not for nothing, but if you get trapped from doing a roll, either forward or back, during a throw, its either an exceptional Nage or bad ukemi. I lean towards bad ukemi.
OK. In Kote-gaeshi, your left hand is held by the nage, what is a "good" ukemi in your definition?

Quote:
William Oakes wrote:

Its been my experience, that rolling out of these techniques is a means to escape or leads to Henka waza(reversals).
How do you roll out of a Ikkyo while the nage controls your wrist and elbow?

Quote:
William Oakes wrote:

Good ukemi, which in this case experience and body movement, prevent face planting by using the uncaptured arm to support the body so uke can lower him or herself to the mat.
simple question, do you do this front breakfall yourself? If you do, you'll realize you have to use your back muscle to throw your leg UP as I described in my previous post.

Everyone has different physical ability and tolerance of risky movements. One has to decide for himself when and how far to push the limits.

I think it's a little bit "fruity" to condemn breakfall by saying "breakfall is a good ukemi gone bad".
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Old 10-18-2005, 11:11 AM   #19
Dirk Hanss
 
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Quote:
Andrew Mendes wrote:
Firstly, OUCH!

For genital protection one must have the top leg land behind the lower leg.
Otherwise it will not be pretty a lot of the time.
There seem to be a lot of tough guys around, i.e. those with the big balls. I had a lot of pain with bad breakfalls, but never hurt my jewels this way. Either I did something right from the beginning or I am somewhat underequipped. Now are the kids really mine?

Dunno if this is a good post, What to hell could you think now of me? But I am curious, if there are relly such a lot genital injuries?

Regards Dirk
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Old 10-18-2005, 12:36 PM   #20
SmilingNage
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Apparently there are stylistic differences between how you and I take ukemi and our ideas/theories on ukemi are by far polar opposites. I am not about to write a book to explain how I take ukemi or for that fact how anyone else should take ukemi. That instruction is better left to your teacher.

Good ukemi to start is any fall that you can get up from unharmed. It doesnt matter if if it is a forward roll, back fall, high fall, safety is the paramount. However you choose to take your ukemi is good in my book. And Henka waza is changing techniques, Keishi(sp) waza is the reversals sorry about that mixup.

The ikkyo situation, well practice it, and see how and where you can roll out of it. You can roll out of ikkyo when it is first applied and you can roll out of the pin as well. I ll leave it up to you to find where and when. Again differ to your teacher if you cant find how.

As for the last, In brief, I am going to assume you describing direct versions of said techniques meaning the techniques applied to drive uke straight down rather out and away. Put the uncaptured hand on the mat and flare out the feet behind me. Flaring up and out if I have the time and feeling flexiable, or just out, away to spread my body out to spare the shoulder.
Nikyo is received by kneeling with the captured arm, leg being "up" or kneeling, free leg is under the body with live toes. Sometimes I will be forced into having the "up" knee reversed, but for the most its the 1st scenerio. This is done to help shield "some"of the potential atemis. I never had experienced a nikyo where I had to take as you call front break falls. Though I can see the situation where that might happen, my ukemi has never put me in spot where the "front" breakfall was needed. Always from the kneeling position first, then adjusting to where Nage take the the technique next.

Finally I dont condemn anything training wise. I am sure there are merits for just about anything you do. There maybe more efficient ways of going about things, but dont look to me judge right or wrong. I can advise according to what I have been taught, what you take of it is what you take. Sometimes I dont agree with a certain takes on techniques but I dont rule them out. I am sure there is a use for it somewhere. Just like " A break fall is good ukemi gone bad" ,right now you dont see the use for it, maybe in the future you will.

To end my spin on this, Rolling(back or forward) will serve most of your ukemi purposes. Rolling also serves as the basis for advancing to higher levels of ukemi, namely Break/High falls. High falls are not a necessity but an option. If you have any questions concerning how to , when to , why to roll during ukemi consult your dojo seniors or instructors.

Dont make me, make you, grab my wrist.
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Old 10-18-2005, 12:45 PM   #21
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Re: Break falls can be a problem!

Hi William,

Did I train with you by any chance when I visited your dojo about two years ago? I was the odd looking one who dropped in late when I couldn't find the dojo...

Quote:
William Oakes wrote:
Not for nothing, but if you get trapped from doing a roll, either forward or back, during a throw, its either an exceptional Nage or bad ukemi. I lean towards bad ukemi.
I have to disagree (politely) with this one. I think some styles/teachers/dojo emphasis breakfalls, and some do not, depending on the types and methods of the throws commonly seen.

Quote:
Uke really needs to protect himself during the course of a throw. You cant always rely on nage to watch out for you. In fact, you shouldn't rely on anyone but your own ukemi. Ukemi is self reliance and about self preservation.
This I strongly agree with!

Quote:
That being said You can pretty much take back rolls for shiho-nage,irimi-nage,,juji-nage, pretty much any projection regardless of the speed at which you are working.
Well, where I usually train these are done as projections, pins, and throws almost straight down...the breakfall really comes in handy on the last two. Shihonage kuzushi (straight arm) for instance is often done with shite releasing the hand just before or at impact of uke with the mat.

Quote:
" A break fall is good ukemi gone bad" not sure who I robbed that line from I think it may have been my sensei. Basically You survived up to a point, but now you are forced to take a break fall, ie all other options have failed, time for the back up plan or my joints/arms will give a new meaning to the phrase double jointed.
I have to say that I really enjoyed the class I got to take from your instructor in South Jersey...remarkable aikidoka. But I haven't had the same experience as his quote reflects. And by studying breakfalls I have found that it opens up my ability to train with all manner of folks (judoka, students of Daito ryu, and others). Without them, I simply wouldn't be able to 'hang' with arts that throw straight down.

I will say though that I wish my rolls were as smooth as some I've seen...just a whisper as they glide through their rolls. B-e-a-u-tifull. Really speaks to the ART side of aikido.

Quote:
Aikido is silent art, in that most of the learning comes from training. Actual hands on practice(lots of it) is the best way to get a point through.
Again, strongly agree. Teaching someone to breakfall through typing on the internet is probably the single most silly thing I could imagine!

Best,
Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 10-18-2005 at 12:49 PM.

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 10-18-2005, 12:45 PM   #22
SmilingNage
Location: NJ
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Dirk,
Feel fortunate, and I hope you havent jinxed youself.

I can remember pestering my seniors to throw me for highfalls, And one particular session still "rings" true to me to this very day. If crossing your legs when landing where like ringing of the church bell on xmas, people would have thought it was an all day xmas church celebration. Not a pretty picture, but a excellent motivator never to cross my legs on landing again.

Dont make me, make you, grab my wrist.
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Old 10-18-2005, 01:22 PM   #23
SmilingNage
Location: NJ
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Yes Ron,
I have had the pleasure of having you pinning me. I remember copious amount of sweat(guilty by both parties), as well as getting dripped on from either a standing or kneeling kote kaeshi pin by you. LoL.

I dont disagree with Break/High falls, Infact I like that aspect of training. I love high falls both throwing and taking. All I am saying its until your options are absolutely used up, for the most part rolling ukemi will service most situational needs. It just meaning alot more moving by Uke, but the postion to roll can be reached. Based to date, I havent come across to many situations where rolling wasnt an option, barring the obvious throws like koshi nage, aiki atoshi.

Not sure If I took that quote for him, I ll catch up with on weds and ask him. But even after almost 9 yrs with him, I have seen very few men of his size move with so much grace and with so little effort expended. I think I will be guilty of never learning all the things he brings to the table from open hand to weapons, to iaito, clean and precise technique.

Dont make me, make you, grab my wrist.
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Old 10-18-2005, 01:36 PM   #24
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
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Re: Breakfalls can be a problem!

Quote:
I think I will be guilty of never learning all the things he brings to the table from open hand to weapons, to iaito, clean and precise technique.
You and me both!

Sorry I dripped on you, I sweat like a MF... I think I remember you now! I really enjoyed the training there...If I'm ever in the area again, your dojo is on the top of my list, along with Fred Little over at NJIT.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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