Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-23-2005, 10:00 PM   #1
Tubig
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 90
Australia
Offline
round house kick about to hit your head

A common question in most martials dojo

What would one do if there is a round house kick about to hit one's head with full intention and force?

There are lot of factors that can affect this situation. The element of suprise for example, also the speed of the kick, the base wieght and balance of the kicker, is Tori standing up (which means a high RH Kick) or is Tori sitting down or knealing (which mean a midrange RH kick). This can even be extended to which direction is RH kick eg left or right.Is the front of the face or the back of the head that will get hit?

We would like to hear your scenarios, katas, experience, and good insights on how to deal with a Round House Kick about to hit your head.

An example is the classic kata: Given a high telegraphic RH Kick: blend with direction of the RH kick and enter doing Shomen ate, under the chin kokyu extention bang!!!

A variation of this kata is instead of shomen ate, an atemi to the solar plexus. Watch for the incoming head because of the reaction by tilting your head which can also act like spear tski to the face.

another variation is ushiro nage entry blend, hook the shoulder or the head (if grabbed- kuminage) and lastly Kokyu nage.


Any suggestions?

Last edited by Tubig : 09-23-2005 at 10:04 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2005, 10:27 PM   #2
Mike Fugate
Dojo: The School of Two Styles
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 46
United_States
Offline
Tongue Re: round house kick about to hit your head

A roundhouse kick whether it be high or low isnt hard to defend against. Just step towards the attacker. When they are begining to kick, step in and then their foot wont hit you like a speeding hammer, but their thigh will make contact, causing a reduction in over all speed. Once you step in its fair game, do what ever cuase if your practice it enough, you can really mess them up. Most people doing this kick wont be able to keep their balance if you come in on them while executing this kick.

"When you cease to strive to understand, then you will know without understanding." -- Caine
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2005, 11:33 PM   #3
Devon Natario
 
Devon Natario's Avatar
Dojo: Northwest Jujitsu/Coeur D'Alene, ID
Location: Coeur D'Alene
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 109
United_States
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Everyone can say what they can or can not do.

I've seen K-1 fight wins with just a round house kick to the thigh over and over and over again.

I have seen people catch the kick and push the kicker to the ground.

I have seen people back up to make the opponent miss.

I have seen people enter and throw.

There are what ifs all over the place.

Seriously, I prefer catching the kick and taking the person to the ground where "I" fight.

But fighting someone that kicks, you never really know which kick or where he's going to kick, so good luck.

Devon Natario
Instructor
Northwest Jujitsu
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 12:05 AM   #4
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
A common question in most Martial dojo What would one do if there is a round house kick about to hit one's head with full intention and force?
MOVE! That is the first lesson we teach our newbie... Be it Tenkan or Irimi, just move away from its trajectory.

Quote:
It doesn't matter how hard your punches are, or how fast your kicks are, it is of no use if is does not connect
- from some anime character in Rurouni Kenshin series.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 04:52 AM   #5
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Duck?

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 05:30 AM   #6
Devin McDowell
Dojo: RA Centre
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 55
Canada
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Irimi, followed by robuse to his leg?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 08:29 AM   #7
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,715
United_States
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

IMHO, if you wouldn't punch some one in the foot then don't kick them in the head.

Blend, enter inside their circle of power, take their balance.

Oh yea, the best way to kick to the head is to wait until they are on the ground.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 09:34 AM   #8
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

'Oh yea, the best way to kick to the head is to wait until they are on the ground.'

Amen.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 05:56 PM   #9
malsmith
Dojo: Masters of Aikido in Fogelsville
Location: Bethlehem
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
United_States
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

i think this is from a kempo point of veiw, but i would try to duck and kick or strike them in the crotch, i am always told to go where they are open, and if they are doing a kick to the head, then their lower area is wide open.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 07:37 PM   #10
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Aiki point of view? Sugi/irime ashi into it. I mean really a high RH is more of a training thing than an actual combat technique because it leaves it's user very open to counter attack. During the execution of the kick you're not exactly in a brilliant position balance wise with any kick and a high RH is about as bad as it gets.
Anything which connects during the excution is almost certainly going to dump them on their behind.
Which is why you should punch them in the face before kicking them in the head.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 08:21 PM   #11
seank
Location: Victoria
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
Australia
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

This is very much a question relating to style. I disagree with the assertion that a mawashi-geri is an inherently unstable position. Chaining kicks, punches, knee strikes and elbows together can actually allow you to attack from a very stable position, with the added advantage that your opponent has to back off.

You also have to remember that a skilled martial artist won't rely on just one kick or one punch, if the first misses you really need to watch for the return attack. I'm a big fan of following a round house kick with an elbow or hammer-fist; if/when the kick misses, your opponent is in a very vulnerable position for a close in strike as you continue to pivot.

Another point to consider is whether your opponent takes the approach of many people where the probe by kicking and punching multiple times, or whether they are the kind of person to more or less sit back and wait for an opening, striking quickly and powerfully to maximum effect. It is my experience that the more seasoned martial artist tends to rely on the latter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 09:54 PM   #12
Kenneth Baņares
Dojo: North Winnipeg Aikikai
Location: Winterpeg, Manitoba
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4
Canada
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Bruce Lee frowned upon kicking attacks above the knee Why?because it leaves the attacker really susceptible to counter strikes because of balance issues.

I say move in with a flying knee to the stomach or groin. or blend with it and attack the other leg .Make sure you have your hands on the side of of your head just in case and you can start from there.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2005, 07:32 AM   #13
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Quote:
Nick Simpson wrote:
Duck?
I think it was Asai who ducked through front kicks in Nakayama's Best Kararte Kumite series. He suggested practicing by ducking lunge punches with a prepratory down block going in.

I never tried it against a front kick, but ducking has worked great for me on the RH. The kicker is really--REALLY--surprised when you do it. I've never pulled out their supporting leg on my way through, but it would seem the natural thing to do although it would probably injure someone on the hard wood floors we trained on then.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2005, 09:12 AM   #14
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 643
Israel
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Quote:
Devon Natario wrote:
Everyone can say what they can or can not do.

I've seen K-1 fight wins with just a round house kick to the thigh over and over and over again.

I have seen people catch the kick and push the kicker to the ground.

I have seen people back up to make the opponent miss.

I have seen people enter and throw.

There are what ifs all over the place.

Seriously, I prefer catching the kick and taking the person to the ground where "I" fight.

But fighting someone that kicks, you never really know which kick or where he's going to kick, so good luck.
I agree, There are many solutions to this situation, mostly depending on ones timing and knowledge. Obviously, one can also fail in the execution and get the kick straight on.


Quote:
MOVE! That is the first lesson we teach our newbie
Movement and Tai-sabaki are the basis for all M.A. Aikido not excluded. The better one is, the smaller the move he needs to avoid being hit and achieve a successful technique.

Amir
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2005, 03:30 PM   #15
aikigirl10
Dojo: Aikido of Ashland
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 395
United_States
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Quote:
Mike Fugate wrote:
A roundhouse kick whether it be high or low isnt hard to defend against. Just step towards the attacker. When they are begining to kick, step in and then their foot wont hit you like a speeding hammer, but their thigh will make contact, causing a reduction in over all speed. Once you step in its fair game, do what ever cuase if your practice it enough, you can really mess them up. Most people doing this kick wont be able to keep their balance if you come in on them while executing this kick.
I have quite a bit of experience with this from sparring competitions and stuff in shaolin. This approach will work. But this isnt the only effective way to defend against it of course.

Another possibility is to step back and let the kick happen and then move in. This will put you behind the attacker which opens up all kinds different counter attacks.

Another way is to catch the kick (depending on the height and speed) If its someone who is new or not that good at sparring , then they will freeze up and they wont know what to do... but i would not recommend trying this with someone experienced, because in most cases they would know how to defend against it immediately.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2005, 04:54 PM   #16
Upyu
Dojo: Aunkai, Tokyo
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 591
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

One thing I'd like to mention,

what you're going to do will also depend largely on how the round house is being thrown. If it's a "load from the hip" that you often seen thrown in Kyokushin, or a chamber from the knee, then stepping forward etc will work just fine.
Not to mention that any kind of the afore mentioned kicks will leave you in a precarious position if you're caught in the middle of it (like someone previously noted)
You'll want to be careful if its a person that throws it orthodox thai style. Simply "catching" or "crowding" might not be so simple since they keep their "axis"/spine relateively straight and don't break that alignment as much compared to the methedologies I mentioned earlier. This allows them to keep their balance even after the kick is "caught", or if they're crowded, which could end up in the would be "counterer" eating an elbow in the face
Really the only way to find out is experiement though.
Think less about technique, and adherence to principal

Hint:
From my experience, maintaining the bodies aligment,or dynamic balance, "kokyu chikara" whatever you want to call it, and maintaining at all points through whatever technique you choose is the critical factor you'll want to focus on.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2005, 05:35 PM   #17
seank
Location: Victoria
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
Australia
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Quote:
Robert John wrote:
a "load from the hip" that you often seen thrown in Kyokushin
Hi Robert,
Very good point on the variations of technique, however I do think that loading from the hip is only evident in some of the Kyokushin-kai.

We practice several different ways of performing mawashi-geri, and only one really loaded from the hip. The other variations have very muay-thai style feel; this is why I mentioned in an earlier post that elbow and hammer-fist strikes were very effective follow-ons from someone stepping into the technique. Ours is a variation of Kyokushin though so it may be a little different than the mainstream.

A caveat for anyone wanting to try stepping in- make sure your timing is right. A full power roundhouse kick is going to break fingers or your arm if you try to grab the leg at the wrong time or distance (not to mention that grabbing almost always ends a technique as you have a static hold when you grab). Blending or stepping away from the technique might be a better solution, allowing you to enter ura on your uke...
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2005, 06:58 PM   #18
Tubig
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 90
Australia
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

I noticed that some people said that a high RH kick is not a good idea, you may be right but I have seen it happened in the streets and in the ring alot of times, it is very possible, and very probable.

Thank you for the response, so far very helpful.

Now let's change the variable Tori is sitting down; hence chudan RH kick happens. Given that the RH kick is still telegraphic (ie not a suprise one). This time seiza or normal sitting down scenario eg in a bus, a bar, a cafe, in a train , etc

The variable changes, we cannot just move because we don't have the same abilities in our legs ready to spring and move as if standing. Sitting down is very hip oriented almost exclusively hip oriented.

To start, my suggestion is the old kata:
Enter- block the knee/inner thigh area of the incoming leg that is doing the RH kick- with the free tegatana atemi to the nuts
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2005, 09:10 AM   #19
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

I don't do it much anymore cause I have seen the light as I gained experience, but I will say, they can and do have their place.

To defend, It is best to move in on the opponent (irimi) and blend with the kick and then off balance uke and take him down to the ground.

Blocking kicks or catching is not a good idea IMHO. Against someone who is a powerful kickboxer or muay thai guy...you can miss and/or get seriously hurt. Moving works best, it takes away the power and point of impact.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2005, 11:05 AM   #20
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,632
United_States
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

I would hit them on the head with my jo as they were throwing the kick (jo's have range, he so his kick won't land). I do Aikido not kick boxing...
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2005, 09:05 PM   #21
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote:
I would hit them on the head with my jo as they were throwing the kick (jo's have range, he so his kick won't land). I do Aikido not kick boxing...
Jo? You mean the broom handle...


Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 06:16 PM   #22
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,632
United_States
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

I prefer mops.......
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 09:21 PM   #23
Saji Jamakin
Dojo: Tomiki / YMCA
Location: Milwaukee
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 20
United_States
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

Try a variation Hiki Otoshi. Step forward and to the right. Block with left hand slightly above the knee hook with the right hand on the thigh. Pull down as you are turning. This is a hard throw too the mat so uke be prepared.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2005, 06:24 PM   #24
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,632
United_States
Offline
Wink

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2005, 06:40 PM   #25
mattholmes
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 40
Offline
Re: round house kick about to hit your head

How about a side kick to the groin? You can lean back as you're doing it (removing your head), you can give the guy something else to think about (pain), and you can push him out of the way/to the ground with the kick.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido against very high kicking (like in tae kwon do) Jeremy Gelman Techniques 44 10-13-2004 10:39 PM
Hello From Round Rock, Texas Oniyama Introductions 5 06-27-2004 04:52 AM
How to stop head butts tiyler_durden Techniques 24 04-26-2004 07:30 AM
Bokken work Genex Weapons 9 08-08-2002 07:31 AM
Kick Defenses... Jermaine Alley Training 16 06-23-2002 08:32 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:29 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate