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Old 09-15-2005, 01:58 PM   #26
Shannon Frye
Dojo: Aikido Fellowship of VA / Chesapeake Va
Location: Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 182
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Re: Poll: How important is "being martially effective" in your aikido training?

Let me begin by saying that Im new here, and have no desire to ruffle any feathers. I have respect for Aikidoka, and any art that someone takes the time to dedicate practice to.

By comment / observation is this: Why is it that, when asked/confronted with the practical application of Aikido (combat/brawl/fist fight / "on the street" / "in real life" / whatever you want to call it), that the answers turn from physical to philosophical? Running backs that use tenkan, or "imagining a victory within yourself" are very colorful responses, but I don't think they address the answer. I think that most people who have an interest in trying aikido (or beginners) want the answer to "If I get punched, will this work?". Not "Well, aikido will make you more aware", or "Aikido will allow you to win in your mind" or "Aikido will teach you to avoid that situation". I can "imagine" a lot of victory in my head, but my body will still receive a butt whoopin if I don't defend properly.

Having crosstrained a bit, I can see the benefit/disadvantages of each art. TKD don't work from a seat position, karate may not work up close, jui jitsu is ineffective from far away, Brazillian JJ is not good for defending against a group, and so forth.

Can anyone provide a physical (non philisophical , no football players or mental internal victory) answer for what advantages / disadvantages aikido would offer someone in a non-evadable, nowhere to run, IT's ON situation?

Again, if this should be a thread posted in another subgeading/category, I apologize. Im new to this forum, and this art. I post out of couriosity and interest, not to criticise. I am very interested in your responses..

Shannon
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Old 09-15-2005, 02:03 PM   #27
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Re: Poll: How important is "being martially effective" in your aikido training?

shomen ate.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-15-2005, 07:51 PM   #28
Qatana
 
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Re: Poll: How important is "being martially effective" in your aikido training?

[quote=Joep Schuurkes]
Does this mean you mainly want to learn the Other Aspects and that you decided to learn them through aikido is because you like doing aikido and because self defence is a welcome side effect?
QUOTE]

I guesss you could say it that way. I train in aikido specifically for many reasons: conflict avoidance or resolution; self-control, control of my aggressive tendencies, harmony, connecting through touch,the sheer physical beauty of it, personal and (yes, fine, some of us do) spiritual support & transformation.This is why I chose aikido.
If indeed I ever have to,and/or am able to use physical aikido for physical self-defense, yes, it will be very welcome.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 09-16-2005, 12:30 AM   #29
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Poll: How important is "being martially effective" in your aikido training?

I am not sure, but if that poll had been carried out a couple of years ago the reults might have been opposite. From what I can 'feel,' there has been a slow drift from the 'Aikido fairy' dominance to the new 'Aikido toughie' in recent years. Am I wrong?

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Old 09-16-2005, 01:07 AM   #30
xuzen
 
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Re: Poll: How important is "being martially effective" in your aikido training?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
shomen ate.
Best, Ron
. LOL Ron. I like your keep it short and sweet answer.

Quote:
I am not sure, but if that poll had been carried out a couple of years ago the results might have been opposite. From what I can 'feel,' there has been a slow drift from the 'Aikido fairy' dominance to the new 'Aikido toughie' in recent years. Am I wrong?
I don't know Rupert, my guess is maybe more non-Hombu/Ki society practitioners are making their presence more felt, at least in the Forum. When I was an aikikai style practitioner, I see aikido more as a health giving exercise. Currently, being under a tutor who has learned from one of the best aikido teacher (at least martially) i.e., G. Shioda, coupled with his former knowledge in karate, judo and western style boxing... my view of aikido has also changed drastically. My view of aikido is very much shaped by who my instructor is.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 09-16-2005, 02:38 AM   #31
Dirk Hanss
 
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Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
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Germany
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Re: Poll: How important is "being martially effective" in your aikido training?

Quote:
Shannon Frye wrote:
Let me begin by saying that Im new here, and have no desire to ruffle any feathers. I have respect for Aikidoka, and any art that someone takes the time to dedicate practice to.

By comment / observation is this: Why is it that, when asked/confronted with the practical application of Aikido (combat/brawl/fist fight / "on the street" / "in real life" / whatever you want to call it), that the answers turn from physical to philosophical? Running backs that use tenkan, or "imagining a victory within yourself" are very colorful responses, but I don't think they address the answer.
Mostly it is not philosophical, but psychological/practical. If you feel better and are more self-confident, you might get out of critical situations, before it comes to "non-evadable". And sometimes it is very practical: Facing a bicycle crash against a wall - oh, I was not good enough in my aikido and in my risk management, as 20 seconds before it was avoidable - and being able afterwards: "it was not a demonstration-like ukemi, but I am safe and not injured. Unfortunately my bike is lost" is my best "real life" effectiveness example.
Quote:
I think that most people who have an interest in trying aikido (or beginners) want the answer to "If I get punched, will this work?". Not "Well, aikido will make you more aware", or "Aikido will allow you to win in your mind" or "Aikido will teach you to avoid that situation". I can "imagine" a lot of victory in my head, but my body will still receive a butt whoopin if I don't defend properly.
In my first aikido lesson I was told: "You are learning wide range techniques with a co-operative partner and don't expect being able to use them in a real conflict. They work, even in a narrow elevator, but it might take 12 years or longer to be able to apply them like this!" Then sensei demonstrated some very short-cut iriminage, nikyo, etc. None of us 20, not even the punk left classes. all turned up for at least the whole beginners' course.
I had 6 years practice of karate before. I joined karate for self-defense purpose. It never had to work in "real life" and I was not sure, if it would have worked other than running away.
I did not want to learn aikido for beat-up purposes. I just was fascinated by the contradictionary combination of Eastern (martial) art and peaceful philosophy. And I preferred not having competition - so it was obviously not a Shodokan Aikido school
Quote:
Having crosstrained a bit, I can see the benefit/disadvantages of each art. TKD don't work from a seat position, karate may not work up close, jui jitsu is ineffective from far away, Brazillian JJ is not good for defending against a group, and so forth.

Can anyone provide a physical (non philisophical , no football players or mental internal victory) answer for what advantages / disadvantages aikido would offer someone in a non-evadable, nowhere to run, IT's ON situation?
Take your time and read the other threads related to this topic. You will find a lot of examples. Probably those, which did not work, are not told, because they (the aikidoka) do not want to tell, they felt they were too junior to do it right, they left aikido or are not participating in this forum, or they just died.
I have also an example of my own. Althought I moved slowly, the guy was not able to hit me - 3 to 4 tries. Then another guy stopped us (me?). But the kicks and punches did not proof proper MA education and that fool was drunken.
None of the example are proofs. It really depends on you and your training (dojo, sensei) etc.
My believe is that aikido works, but it is not your first choice, if you just need a fast learnable effective self-defense art without any of this philosophical background.
But all the other arts won't work after a few month and at the end all of them - at least the DO - are different way to the same "Mount Fuji". Not only philosophically: If you see a karate self-defence demonstration by a yondan, it looks quite similar to what a judo, taekwondo or hapkido yondan would show. They all use punches (elbow), low kicks and throws for self-defense purposes. As the high-level demonstrations are mostly only at about yondan level, you still will see the difference at the end. Some use a final (lethal) punch, others a pin or bone breaking technique.

You want the fastest dojo/style for real life self defence?
They need to have daily classes (morning, lunch break and 2 in the evening), you should not see injured participants or being told about absence due to injuries. But they need martial awareness and they should not go for championships, as those apply their training to the championship rules and not to the "street". Of those you just have to avoid the 90% boasters, bluffers, and cheaters and you got it.

Kind regards Dirk
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Old 09-16-2005, 08:39 AM   #32
rcoit
Dojo: northeast aikikai
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Re: Poll: How important is "being martially effective" in your aikido training?

to respond:
per pocket Webster dictionary: martial - pertaining to or suitable for war, 2. military 3. warlike
O Sensai is reported as saying (the attacker) loses before he even begins. This and all his precepts support the notion that battles are won or lost in the mind. The samouri is able to strike after death by force of will. One who is free from fear is truly free. (ie invincible).
So ...my answer...and you asked for it... Aikido is martially effective and must be. It must be appreciated however that "martial" doesn't have to mean physical prowess or overpowering. It does mean, however, victory in adversarial encounters - as in Brenda's example.
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Old 09-16-2005, 01:03 PM   #33
billybob
 
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Dojo: Academy of Warrior Spirit
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Re: Poll: How important is "being martially effective" in your aikido training?

I carry a pistol, so why study aikido?

I can easily kill, so why work so hard learning a 'soft' martial art?

Because strength gives us freedom. Brenda's example is excellent.

Not only women are vulnerable. I was brutalized as a child by a psychotic father.

Not so black and white is it? Should I have killed him? Run away and left brother and sister vulnerable? Those of you who have fought for your lives will never train without considering martial effectiveness.

But not killing is also valuable. My brother and sister and I are alive, and I am not in jail, or a psycho ward.

Peace - and it's not trivial when I say it. Peace is earned.

Dave
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