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Old 09-13-2005, 02:27 PM   #101
Hogan
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Do you have evidence that he will NOT be onsite? Should he keep his children out of school? Have them live in a house flooded with bacteria infested water? What?
I said HE should stay. And as he has shown himself to be a lying, two bit hack of a mayor who balmes everyone but himself, I have no evidence he WILL stay.

Quote:
Lying on your resume is a reference to Brownie, to whom Bush said "Brownie, you're doing a great job." Turns out the job he was doing stunk, and so did the resume he used to get the job in the first place.R
Yes, I knew who you were talking about, but fail to see the connection to whether the mayor left or not. Trying to deflect, are we ?
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:53 PM   #102
Ron Tisdale
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

As far as we know now, he will be there. When there is evidence that he will not? I have seen no evidence of him lying to date. He did make mistakes (as in the buses) but lying?

I'll take your two bit hack of mayor and raise you one F'd up president.

Not trying to deflect, just continuing a conversation from about four posts up in the thread.

Best,
Ron (deflection is for wimps, take the hit, and smile)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-13-2005, 03:45 PM   #103
Hogan
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
As far as we know now, he will be there. When there is evidence that he will not? I have seen no evidence of him lying to date. He did make mistakes (as in the buses) but lying?
He lies everytime he says it's not his fault.

Quote:
I'll take your two bit hack of mayor and raise you one F'd up president.
ahahaha.... ex-presidents don't count (Clinton)...

Quote:
Not trying to deflect, just continuing a conversation from about four posts up in the thread.
With me ? I am sure I didn't bring up the resume lying with the Mayor leaving....
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Old 09-13-2005, 03:58 PM   #104
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and said the disaster raised broader questions about the government's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks. "Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government," Bush said at joint White House news conference with the president of Iraq.

"To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said.

http://preview.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/2..._washington_16
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Old 09-13-2005, 04:05 PM   #105
Ron Tisdale
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...3107-3180r.htm

Just in case someone tries to say blacks aren't angry at the mayor too...

Best,
Ron (there sure is enough blame to go around)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 09-13-2005, 04:10 PM   #106
Hogan
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Eek! Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
Steven Miranda wrote:
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and said the disaster raised broader questions about the government's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks. "Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government," Bush said at joint White House news conference with the president of Iraq.

"To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said.

http://preview.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/2..._washington_16

I wonder when we can expect the mayor and governor to accept responsibility for the city & state's failures.

I will hold my breath until they do....

I'm holding....


Holding....


hold....

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Old 09-13-2005, 09:26 PM   #107
Neil Mick
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
He lies everytime he says it's not his fault.
Coming from you, that's really funny.

Mr. "wmd's in Iraq;" "Saddam Hussein and 9-11;" and "Brownie, yer doing a heck of a job;" isn't a liar--but a mayor who was repeatedly told that FEMA is coming, IS a liar.

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
I wonder when we can expect the mayor and governor to accept responsibility for the city & state's failures.

I will hold my breath until they do....

I'm holding....


Holding....


hold....

Oh, please. The mayor of one of the poorest cities in the nation can hardly be compared to the President of the most powerful nation in the country, in emergency preparedness, especially when Negin and Blanco were told repeatedly that "the calvary is coming..."

as they waited,

and waited,

and waited.

And Bush "accepts responsibility?" Whoah. Give the guy a medal. Let's all praise the Great Man and sing hosannah's, for all the good it will do.

Is he airdropping in needed supplies? No.

Is he talking of restoring FEMA to a cabinet position? No.

Is he discussing any changes at all?

Will he (*gasp*) apologize?

Don't hold your breath.

The best "responsibility" he could "accept" is an acceptance of a resignation, once the disaster-area is back on its feet.

Last edited by Neil Mick : 09-13-2005 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:45 PM   #108
Neil Mick
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

And then there's this:
Conyers Report

Quote:
-- All necessary conditions for federal relief were met on August 28. Pursuant to Section 502 of the Stafford Act, "(t)he declaration of an emergency by the President makes Federal emergency assistance available," and the President made such a declaration on August 28. The public record indicates that several additional days passed before such assistance was actually made available to the State;

-- The Governor must make a timely request for such assistance, which meets the requirements of federal law. The report states that "(e)xcept to the extent that an emergency involves primarily Federal interests, both declarations of major disaster and declarations of emergency must be triggered by a request to the President from the Governor of the affected state";

-- The Governor did indeed make such a request, which was both timely and in compliance with federal law. The report finds that "Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco requested by letter dated August 27, 2005...that the President declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period from August 26, 2005 and continuing pursuant to (applicable Federal statute)" and "Governor Blanco's August 27, 2005 request for an emergency declaration also included her determination...that 'the incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of disaster."
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:21 AM   #109
Hogan
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote:
...
Oh, please. The mayor of one of the poorest cities in the nation can hardly be compared to the President of the most powerful nation in the country, in emergency preparedness, especially when Negin and Blanco were told repeatedly that "the calvary is coming..." ....
Yes, it's quite poor. All those hundreds of millions coming into the city from tourists every yr, from Mardi Gras to Quarter Fest to Jazz to architecture...

Yes, very poor...

And they still haven't accepted blame for their own stupidity.

Be adults.... stand up.... quit blaming Uncle Sam mayor & Guv.

IMPEACH THEM NOW !
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:37 AM   #110
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

FEMA is for monetary help after a disaster, not for swooping in and saving everyone.
Blanco was asked to evacuate by President Bush 48 hours before the hurricane made landfall. She said she needed 24 hours to decide.
New Orleans' citizens were told to bring four days worth of food with them to the superdome; did they? Were the able-bodied young men appropriating food from stores with the intention of taking it back to the weak and sick people?
What would NOW have to say about W if he had used his power to enforce a mandatory evacuation to help out an indecisive "little lady"? If Bush had bumped the governor out of the way and took over her state in the interest of saving lives, people would be accusing him of hating women!

President Bush can't win when people are just looking for reasons to hate him. Continue hating Bush if you so desire, and send Louisiana some money.
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:57 AM   #111
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
New Orleans' citizens were told to bring four days worth of food with them to the superdome; did they?
As I understand it, the people in the superdome were those without private transportation. I wonder how a family of five, with no exposure to camping/hiking etc., would bring enough food for 4 days? God forbid they should have to bring water too...water is HEAVY.

Quote:
Were the able-bodied young men appropriating food from stores with the intention of taking it back to the weak and sick people?
In some cases yes. I'm also positive in some cases no.

Quote:
Continue hating Bush if you so desire, and send Louisiana some money.
Done!

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 09-14-2005, 12:16 PM   #112
Ron Tisdale
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
FEMA is for monetary help after a disaster, not for swooping in and saving everyone.
Oh really? Check out this link:

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/in_b...an_fy03-08.pdf

It is the brochure for FEMA...it mentions as it's mission:

Quote:
Mission:
Lead America to prepare for, prevent, respond to, and recover from disasters.
and it's goals:
Quote:
1. Reduce loss of life and property.
2. Minimize suffering and disruption caused by disasters.
3. Prepare the Nation to address the consequences of
terrorism.
4. Serve as the Nation's portal for emergency management
information and expertise.
5. Create a motivating and challenging work environment
for employees.
6. Make FEMA a world-class enterprise.
The specific objectives and measurements listed on the brochure are quite illuminating. I'd actually never looked at specifically what FEMA IS supposed to do until you said that.

Thanks,

Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 09-14-2005, 01:41 PM   #113
Hogan
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
As I understand it, the people in the superdome were those without private transportation. I wonder how a family of five, with no exposure to camping/hiking etc., would bring enough food for 4 days? God forbid they should have to bring water too...water is HEAVY.
Well, maybe the city should have provided buses or something...

Oh wait !!!

And another thing, the mayor provided information to his population re any evacuation, and told them they were on their own. I provided this info earlier. Perhaps the mayor shold have prepared his own people. I know in my city, there is preparation.


Quote:
In some cases yes. I'm also positive in some cases no.
Probably watching those big screen TV's they stole...
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Old 09-14-2005, 01:43 PM   #114
giriasis
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Why does a person need to learn how to go camping to know how to prepare for a hurricane? Ahem...since Ron has family in Jacksonville and Orlando, he should know that every year we are briefed as how to prepare, and that the stores are filled with Hurricane Preparedness Guides like this: NBC6 Hurricane Preparedness Guide .

You bring at least 1-2 gallons per person per day, usually for 3 days, but for a big storm it's for 5 days. That means each person for Katrina need at least 5 gallons of water for a family of 5 that would make it 25 gallons of water. Now, as to why those folks didn't bring any supplies with them is that if you have every had to stock up for a storm you'd know that as soon as they call for evacuations people rush to the stores and make their purchases then. What happens is that the stores run out of the essentials like water, ice, and canned and non-perishable goods. Also, the amount of money you need to stock up on these items for long enough adds up quick. So the probably didn't have anything because of at least one of two reasons: 1. they didn't have the money and/ or 2. the stores ran out of supplies.

And you are ALWAYS told to bring your own supplies with you when you go to a shelter and that food and water will not be provided at the shelter. I think that is why the "holdouts" remained in their homes, that's where they had their supplies, and many of the "holdouts" didn't leave until they ran out.

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 09-14-2005, 01:47 PM   #115
Hogan
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Oh really? Check out this link:

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/in_b...an_fy03-08.pdf

It is the brochure for FEMA...it mentions as it's mission:


and it's goals:

The specific objectives and measurements listed on the brochure are quite illuminating. I'd actually never looked at specifically what FEMA IS supposed to do until you said that.

Thanks,

Ron

FEMA is NOT a first responder. Locals are. Complain all you want, but the locals dropped the ball on this one. Why did the GUV want 24 hrs to decide ? Why did the Pres & head of hurrican office have to BEG the mayor to evacuate ? Why the the mayor delay in that order ? Why did he not enforce it ? Why did he tell locals they were on their own ?


Hmmmm... enquiring minds want to know.
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Old 09-14-2005, 02:04 PM   #116
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Hi Anne Marie. The reason I said that was simple. You are talking about people with no means of private transportation. It's not like they loaded up the car with the supplies you mentioned, drove to the super dome, unloaded the car, and carried the stuff in. How big is NO? How far to the bus/train/etc. stop? Was public transportation running at that time? Did people walk all the way to the super dome? Carrying the supplies you mentioned? Have you ever walked 30 miles carrying food and water for four days? I have...if I had to do that for a family of four, one of them a pregnant woman, the others young kids, I couldn't do it now. Or at least would have a hard time.

It really has nothing to do with the fact that I have family in Orlando and Jacksonville, which is where my parents are from. If you'd like to debate my parentage, hey, have at it, but I won't be participating... My reference to camping is because people who hike regularly are IN SHAPE TO ACTUALLY CARRY THAT MUCH WEIGHT. So let's not be obtuse...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-14-2005, 02:06 PM   #117
Ron Tisdale
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Hi John,

Quote:
Why did the GUV want 24 hrs to decide ?
Gotta admit, that one got me too. I think it had something to do with turning all authority for the operation over to the feds. Now, if it was me, and I couldn't do anything about the situation, I'd just turn over the authority to get the help. And it wouldn't take me 24 hours to figure that out.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-14-2005, 02:37 PM   #118
Hogan
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Hi John,



Gotta admit, that one got me too. I think it had something to do with turning all authority for the operation over to the feds. Now, if it was me, and I couldn't do anything about the situation, I'd just turn over the authority to get the help. And it wouldn't take me 24 hours to figure that out.

Best,
Ron
Personally, I think it had to do with politics. GUV & Mayor don't like each other.
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Old 09-14-2005, 02:39 PM   #119
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Hi Anne Marie. The reason I said that was simple. You are talking about people with no means of private transportation. It's not like they loaded up the car with the supplies you mentioned, drove to the super dome, unloaded the car, and carried the stuff in. How big is NO? How far to the bus/train/etc. stop? Was public transportation running at that time? Did people walk all the way to the super dome? Carrying the supplies you mentioned? Have you ever walked 30 miles carrying food and water for four days? I have...if I had to do that for a family of four, one of them a pregnant woman, the others young kids, I couldn't do it now. Or at least would have a hard time.

It really has nothing to do with the fact that I have family in Orlando and Jacksonville, which is where my parents are from. If you'd like to debate my parentage, hey, have at it, but I won't be participating... My reference to camping is because people who hike regularly are IN SHAPE TO ACTUALLY CARRY THAT MUCH WEIGHT. So let's not be obtuse...

Best,
Ron
Then the Mayors CD to the folks shouldn't have said to folks they were on their own. He failed.

IMPEACH !
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Old 09-14-2005, 02:39 PM   #120
Ron Tisdale
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Now why isn't that surprising!!!

Ron (man oh man, we get what we deserve...)

Ron Tisdale
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St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-14-2005, 03:10 PM   #121
giriasis
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Hi Anne Marie. The reason I said that was simple. You are talking about people with no means of private transportation. It's not like they loaded up the car with the supplies you mentioned, drove to the super dome, unloaded the car, and carried the stuff in. How big is NO? How far to the bus/train/etc. stop? Was public transportation running at that time? Did people walk all the way to the super dome? Carrying the supplies you mentioned? Have you ever walked 30 miles carrying food and water for four days? I have...if I had to do that for a family of four, one of them a pregnant woman, the others young kids, I couldn't do it now. Or at least would have a hard time.

It really has nothing to do with the fact that I have family in Orlando and Jacksonville, which is where my parents are from. If you'd like to debate my parentage, hey, have at it, but I won't be participating... My reference to camping is because people who hike regularly are IN SHAPE TO ACTUALLY CARRY THAT MUCH WEIGHT. So let's not be obtuse...

Best,
Ron
Obtuse? me? So what you're really talking about is hiking then. Yes, I have hiked miles through the Fakahatchee Strand (East Everglades) and carried gallons of water. It was heavy, hot, humid and filled with mosquitos. Yes, it takes lots of water and it is heavy -- hence my point that that is perhaps the reason those who had supplies "the holdouts" stayed in the homes and didn't go to the Superdome. So in someways I agree with you. Oh, and before the storm I did see footage of two men carrying a hugh cooler into the superdome. So at least two people heeded the orders. Also, if you noticed the footage of the Superdome there were cars parked in the parking lot and parked in the streets around it. So some people had transportation -- probably didn't want to bother with the traffic. Also, there were buses taking people to the superdome. While it would not have been practical to have a hugh supply of water. It would have been practical to have -- something.

My point about your parents relates back to my previous post and your obtuse response to that. Other than Flyod, what kinds of Hurricanes have you prepared for? I imagine you have made precautions for the winter months in Penn, right? What do you say to people there who don't prepare? If they don't prepare, why don't they? And regarding Flyod that storm was headed straight to my home town of Melbourne, btw, which we were warned about at least a week in advanced, of which we evacuated from the barrier islands at least a day in advanced. But we don't have a hugh population of 800,000 + people to evacuate from an entire city. I've actually had to evacuate from my home a couple of times for a Hurricane. Fortunately for us Flyod turned North, the night it was to make landfall, and only took out the Daytona Beach Pier.

But I also understand the kind of complaceny that sets in your mind that you don't have to worry about "such and such" storm. Last year in a 6 week period we were inudated by 4 major storms. You get sick of moving and preparing and being worried "where it will hit, because they can't predict exactly where it will go." I can understand why folks didn't leave -- they thought they could "ride it out." But given that you are still responsible for your own actions.

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 09-14-2005, 03:32 PM   #122
Ron Tisdale
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

One in Ohio (believe it or not) and the stories from my parents preparing in their youth. How exactly was I obtuse in that regard? Hey, at least we're equaly obtuse

Quote:
So in someways I agree with you.
So maybe neither of us are obtuse...

Quote:
What do you say to people there who don't prepare?
I don't say anything to people who don't prepare. I just smile and go on my way. Kind of like people who go camping in wilderness areas and sleep with the food in their tent. I just smile, and make sure MY tent isn't next to theirs...afterward, I'm always glad to share MY food with them though. I always try to bring a little extra. I still remember that time in the adirondacks when I first saw up close and personal what a bear can do to a back pack.

I think the population problem was not fully anticipated in NO. My impression of the evacuations in Florida recently is that things were a bit more spread out demographically. Can you shed some light?

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:53 PM   #123
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Another interesting twist.

WASHINGTON - The federal official with the power to mobilize a massive federal response to Hurricane Katrina was Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, not the former FEMA chief who was relieved of his duties and resigned earlier this week, federal documents reviewed by Knight Ridder show.

Even before the storm struck the Gulf Coast, Chertoff could have ordered federal agencies into action without any request from state or local officials. Federal Emergency Management Agency chief Michael Brown had only limited authority to do so until about 36 hours after the storm hit, when Chertoff designated him as the "principal federal official" in charge of the storm.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/krwashbureau...onse_exclusive
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:53 PM   #124
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
I think the population problem was not fully anticipated in NO. My impression of the evacuations in Florida recently is that things were a bit more spread out demographically. Can you shed some light?
The major populations centers are the Tri-County area of Southeast Florida (Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach), Orlando, the Tampa/St. Pete area, Orlando and Jacksonville. In about that order. Here's an article about what the Florida National Guard has considered: Florida National Guard Article and read this from the Palm Beach Post (no, I didn't read this article to base my comments on I just found this): Palm Beach Post article

My comments are just based on my experience of, with the exception of 3 months in Connecticut, living my whole life in Florida. After Andrew similar complaints were made in the state that there was a slow Federal response and even after that we still had massive traffic tie up in response to Flyod. What they do now whenever we are under a Hurricane Warning is to waive the tolls on the Turnpike which is another North-South thourogh-fare and takes us South Floridians straight to Orlando. see this article regarding updates to our traffic flow issues Florida Highway Patrol Note that the date of this article is June 2005, pre-Katrina and at the beginning of our Hurricane Season.

Central Florida Evacuation Routes If you flip through the previous pages you'll find a list of supplies (page 20) you need to buy, and you're told what to do when: When a warning is issued and then when a watch issued. In Melbourne/ Brevard County (Central Florida East Coast), you notice on the maps we don't have to travel to far to get to a safe location.

This is how Hillsborough County (Tampa) plans out their evacuations zones. Specifically check out Figures 4 and Figures 5 Hillsborough HEAT There are also similar plans in place in other parts of the state

Here is an article from the Houston Chronicle comparing, somewhat, Florida Plans v. Louisiana Plans and local/ state prepardedness in Louisiana City had evacuation plan but strayed

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:24 PM   #125
Neil Mick
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Re: New Orleans, what is going on?

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
Yes, it's quite poor. All those hundreds of millions coming into the city from tourists every yr, from Mardi Gras to Quarter Fest to Jazz to architecture...

Yes, very poor...
Yes, exactly: very poor. And, if you think that a few festivals will totally change all of that and bring money to all sectors of society...then I have some suggestions for a few economics and civics classes, for you (not to mention, a few chapters devoted to corporate globalization, and its effects on local communities).

Quote:
And they still haven't accepted blame for their own stupidity.

Be adults.... stand up.... quit blaming Uncle Sam mayor & Guv.

IMPEACH THEM NOW !
And, all I hear from you is it's the "holdout's" fault; it's the mayor's/gov's/everyone else's, BUT the President's, fault.

Gosh. Money sure can't buy that kind of loyalty. If it were MY President (i.e., David Cobb) sitting up there in the Big White Mansion who played guitar and jet-setted around the country while New Orleans drowned, you'd better believe that I'd be demanding HIS resignation, partisan-affiliation or not.

But David Cobb, I imagine, cares about black people.

George W. Bush doesn't like black folks.

Last edited by Neil Mick : 09-14-2005 at 10:30 PM.
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