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Old 09-03-2005, 12:12 AM   #1
Willow
Dojo: North Coast Akido/ Arcata,CA
Location: Northern California
Join Date: Jul 2005
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short intro/ Akido pillers?

Hello there,
I go by Willow, and I have have been practicing Aikido for less than a year. I find my self thinking about Aikido most of my day. That is actualy the reason for my choosing to corespond tonight. I am caught thinking about what the pillers of Aikido are. If anyone who reads this knows what I am talking about, or knows where I should look I would greatly appreciate a response.

Harmony,
Willow
Arcata, California
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Old 09-03-2005, 06:06 AM   #2
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,217
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

Hallo. The pillars of Aikido are shihonage, kaitennage, Iriminage, Kotegaeshi, kokyunage, Ikkyo, plus others
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Old 09-03-2005, 06:07 AM   #3
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

The place to look is in your practice.
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:17 PM   #4
Lan Powers
Dojo: Aikido of Midland, Midland TX
Location: Midland Tx
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 659
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

Hi Willow
Here is a link to my Sensei's web-site...http://members.cox.net/aikidoc1/tachu.htm
In the student handout section there is a nice pithy description of what Mr. Uttech has mentioned.
Safe training, enjoy
Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
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Old 09-07-2005, 04:42 AM   #5
Tim Ruijs
 
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Dojo: Makato/Netherlands
Location: Netherlands - Leusden
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

Quote:
Michelle Smith wrote:
I am caught thinking about what the pillers of Aikido are.
The techniques mentioned are instruments to train the principles of Aiki, which to me are the true pillars of Aikido
  • shisei (posture)
  • ma ai (timing/distance)
  • kino nagare (fluent movement)

ai - harmony: everything has its place
ki - energy: blend, do not overdo, no excessive force, be relaxed
do - way: principle

Aikido - The way of doing the right thing at the right place at the right time in a relaxed manner
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Old 09-07-2005, 08:03 PM   #6
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

Stevens answers as above, with techniques.

For Pranin, it's Ueshiba, Takeda, and Deguchi (http://www.aikidojournal.com/catalog...ar&category=3). I wrote and asked him why he didn't include Inoue Yoshiaki, Osensei's cousin(whom he'd written of as a "co-author" of aikido, memory serving), and he just growned and mumbled something about a firestorm...

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
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Old 09-08-2005, 08:11 AM   #7
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

Quote:
Tim Ruijs wrote:
the principles of Aiki, which to me are the true pillars of Aikido
  • shisei (posture)
  • ma ai (timing/distance)
  • kino nagare (fluent movement)
You know, I've heard this before, and I just can't agree with those 3 principles as the _main_ three. I think "tai-atari" is a main principle. I understand that people might argue that the end-state might be no-touch throws, but without full body connection as a main principle for developing aikido, I doubt any ki-tai techniques will be realized anyway.

I'm bringing this up because I took ukemi from a shihan who stated those 3 as the main principles he valued throughout his training and this guy had NO DEMONSTRATABLE POWER. He asked me and another sandan at the seminar to please just take ukemi for either nikkyo or sankyo (because what he was doing had no chance of working). When I complained to my friends I was told that "oh well, when people get old they can't do it anymore." I say BS! If you are practing correctly, you don't need much physical power to make me take ukemi for nikkyo or sankyo. (Of course I took the ukemi, but I wanted my money back for the seminar!)

Lastly - Don, can you explain the "firestorm" reference?
Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 09-08-2005 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 09-08-2005, 08:37 AM   #8
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
I'm bringing this up because I took ukemi from a shihan who stated those 3 as the main principles he valued throughout his training and this guy had NO DEMONSTRATABLE POWER.
These are the principles taught to me by my teacher/inspirator Alain Peyrache (Shihan 7th dan), student of Tamura Sensei with 40 years experience behind his belt (hence the big hara, ahum ). And I would not even dare to think him as powerless . Quite the opposite, I feel he holds back his true strength (center) to protect me (us).


Quote:
He asked me and another sandan at the semianr to please just take ukemi for either nikkyo or sankyo (because what he was doing had no chance of working). When I complained to my friends I was told that "oh well, when people get old they can't do it anymore." I say BS!
Agree with you here!


Quote:
If you are practing correctly, you don't need much physical power to make me take ukemi for nikkyo or sankyo.
Believe me: he don't require much power to have you find the tatami (nikkyo) real quick, or take off to the sky (sankyo).
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Old 09-08-2005, 09:18 AM   #9
JMCavazos
Dojo: Aikido Center of South Texas
Location: Houston,Tx
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

It seems that the pillars of aikido depend on the organization that you study with and they are all good!

For the organizaion that I am associated with, we have several pillars or principles that we attempt to adhere to:
Principle of Oneness
Principle of Circular motion
Range of Effectiveness
Principles to Unify Mind & Body
a. Keep your one point
b. Relax completely
c. Utilize weight underside
d. Extend Ki
Principle of Shodo-o-seisu
Connectivity

and of course: True victory is victory over oneself
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Old 09-08-2005, 10:41 AM   #10
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
Lastly - Don, can you explain the "firestorm" reference?
Rob
I think poor Stanley's gotten himself in enough hot water in his iconoclastic career just digging up the facts of Takeda Sokaku and DR (contra NIDAI DOSHU's claims that his father studied many martial arts) that bringing up that prickly individual would have just raised blood pressure all around.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 09-09-2005, 12:51 AM   #11
Dazzler
Dojo: Templegate Dojo, bristol & Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
Hallo. The pillars of Aikido are shihonage, kaitennage, Iriminage, Kotegaeshi, kokyunage, Ikkyo, plus others
Depends on what is meant by pillars. This is certaily a list of techniques which are relevant to the study of aikido bases.

As others have listed - in the group that I'm with these bases are;

Kamai, mahai, shisei, kokyu, irimi, tenkan, atemi, kokyuho-rokyuho, omote,ura.

I feel these embody one point, kuzushu which many mention on these fora (thanks).

There are also may other 'pillars' that vary from group to group as Jim has stated.

eg. Some may work on the basis of never initiate conflict, others on the basis of if theres going to be trouble start it and finish it early.

Perhaps these are umbrella'd beneath zanshin?

One huge pillar for me is to look at 'Do' as Dao. To me this is still 'The Way' but specifically 'The way of harmony according to the Tao' eg. ying and yang in all things...also nothing is ever completely black and white.

A more personal pillar that I have found useful is when I see a new instructor with something good to offer - I try to ADD it to what I know already. Many REPLACE their previous learning.

This brings to mind an old english saying about "throwing the baby out with the bath water".

I'll leave that for you to work out..is it relevent or Aiki gibberish?

Cheers

D
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Old 09-10-2005, 08:18 PM   #12
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
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Re: short intro/ Akido pillers?

Tim, I am not trying to suggest that all people who adhere to the 3 pillar principles you wrote would automatically have no hara. I'd like to suggest, instead, that the people who adhere to those 3 specific pillars who have power may be taking that development for granted and failing to mention the principles involved with attaining such power. I consider the tai-atari principle to be a pillar and I feel that the group of pillars you mention fails to take it into account - in terms of explanation. I have seen/felt people develop Ma-ai and Fluid movement to be so evasive - to the point of avoiding working on developing any kind of kokyu power. Also, while posture certainly helps, without pressure /resistance it (posture) _may_ not be developed strongly enough to manifest the type of power I'm sure your teacher has. Any way, I'm jealous. I have met only a few people who have trained with Tamura sensei and they were excellent!

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 09-10-2005 at 08:21 PM.
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