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Old 09-06-2005, 12:03 AM   #51
Chris Li
 
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Re: Permanent, public, not-for-profit Aikido Museum.

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
Well Chris, I might have to disagree with you there starting with yourself. While you believe yourself not to have disagreed with it, and although you allude to your agreement (in principle only, perhaps) you haven't actually come out and said you support the idea. Better yet, you haven't extrapolated and put forth as comments how (based upon your allusions to agreeing with it) you see the formation of the Museum and the contribution by Stanley Pranin of the archival materials would ("might" if you prefer that word) go towards bettering the Aikido world and cementing an alternative future to what is currently not possible given a for-profit model.
You want me to support something that doesn't exist, even in planning? Sure, a non-profit could be a good idea. Then again, it might not, depending upon how it was implemented. I've never said that it was a bad idea. If you think that it's a good idea than put up some money (as Stan did) and get it started?

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
What I will say is I am not criticizing (in the way that you mean) the farmer and have said that repeatedly, but since you insist I will, using your metaphor, of course. Here goes... It is not that the farmer is raising chickens over ducks rather it is that he is being chicken and ducking his higher responsibility to the farm.
Abe could have done it (you said before that he had the idea), but didn't, do you think that he was neglecting his "duty to the farm"? If so, where's the criticism of Abe and his "money making machine"?

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
PS - (written with tongue in cheek) I am sure you'll go dig up some of my old comments to prove your last point. However, I will continue to ask you to discuss the issue of the thread, in this case the potential betterment of an Aikido Museum for the Aikido community rather than pointing a finger at me for one reason or another. If you like you can start the Chris Li's issues with Shaun thread and post all the derogatory comments, misrepresenting allusions and animal metaphors, etc. based on your unstated or hidden agendas that you like. I'll even participate and sling some dirt on myself. Oh Glee!.
I haven't been digging up old comments of yours to prove a point (that was someone else), and I don't have any particular issues with you other than disagreement with your view on Stan Pranin as I stated in my last post. I haven't made any deragotory comments or slung any dirt that I'm aware of, and what am I supposedly pointing at?

Best,

Chris

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Old 09-06-2005, 12:15 AM   #52
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Permanent, public, not-for-profit Aikido Museum.

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote:
There is always somebody (too many, in fact) willing to criticize those who have done much for not doing enough. The tough part is finding those willing to put their sweat where their words are. Stan has done it, and few others have even tried. And still there are the critics.
Rah! Rah! Rah-RahRah! (shake your pom-poms) With all that cheering you are doing are you sweating or just running at the mouth?
Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote:
And Shawn, just so you can gain some perspective, I did not ask to be designated as a "Featured Author" at AJ. Stan asked me to do it because of my book fetish, and because nobody else was blogging on what he felt was an important subject.
Clark, all rhetoric aside, while I may or may not dig your blogs, I have no problem with and am all for AJ's "featured authors". However, there is the issue, and it has been discussed but not really addressed that "Featuring" an author lends credence to their opinions, whether they be biased or otherwise.
Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote:
Perhaps if your writing was more objective and less cynical, you would receive a similar invitation. Frankly, all it has done for me is put me in the crosshairs of the narrow-minded and the judgmental. But I draw inspiration from Stan's dedication. If you think that makes me partial to him, you're right. If it means I can't have your respect, I'll be sorry, but I'll live.
I am not interested in being a featured author on Aikido Journal or anywhere else for that matter. Like Chris Li used the word "criticize" yout use of the word "Cynic" is in a negative tone, so as it goes, you are as negative as you acuse me of being. However, to be a critic, we must define it:
Quote:
Dictionary.com wrote:

Critic
  • One who forms and expresses judgments of the merits, faults, value, or truth of a matter.
  • One who specializes especially professionally in the evaluation and appreciation of literary or artistic works: a film critic; a dance critic.
  • One who tends to make harsh or carping judgments; a faultfinder.
So let me be clear and answer Chris Li's assertion (with a negative connotation) that I tend to criticize. I do. and even in point number three, above, in finding fault one can improve. You can choose to look out and see the roses and the rainbows, but that doesn't mean the acid rain allowing you to see the rainbow isn't going to kill your roses. Ah, we come to the cynic... or what you have asserted me to be.
Quote:
Dictionary.com wrote:

Cynic

  • A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.
  • A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative.
  • Cynic A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achieving virtue.
Do you know me so well that you could criticize me (oops, there it is. even you can be so accused) penning me with your assertions that I believe all people to be motivated by selfishness? You don't know me so well, and your glib assertions do nothing but allude to your quick judgment of people. To answer to your accusations, I do not! Do you know me well enough to say that I am scornful, or habitually negative? You do not know me so well. The mere fact that I offered up some way to possibly improve the outlook for the future of the Aikido community means that I do see the positive nature of people and the possible good they could do, if they so chose. As for the third point of the definition, although I will be the first to admit that I have not achieved any lofty position by any measure, it is to that lofty goal that I seek to rise. And you?

As I said, if you want to cheer or jeer, start a new thread and see where it goes. As previously stated, any disagreement you may have with me, justified or not has been duly noted. If you would like to discuss the issue and examine the possible good the Museum could do for the future of the Aikido community (and this would include Stan's donation of the archival materials he now possesses to the Museum) I look forward to your post.



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Old 09-06-2005, 12:44 AM   #53
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Permanent, public, not-for-profit Aikido Museum.

Quote:
Matthew Zsebik wrote:
Shaun R.,

For your museum idea to reach the most Aikido people and do the most good wouldn't it be best for it to be a virtual museum on the internet? Isn't that what Aikido Journal is already doing in a way?
Cheers,

Matthew
Hi Matthew,

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I guess I would have to say that on one level the internet is a great thing. However, there is a reason that many Museum's popularity has actually risen over the years rather than declined. There is the altruistic hope that a Museum allows viewers to see for themselves and make up there own minds. My opinion is that there is an issue when you have individuals who proffer academic opinions in control of archival materials that should be under the direction of an unbiased directorship.
Quote:
Matthew Zsebik wrote:
What would be the major differences between what you propose and what Aikido Journal is already?
Well, that is a good question. Again, this is just an idea, and not one that I would administer. However, I would like to see all archival materials under one roof, in an actual place that can be visited. They should not be "owned" by individuals. I do know that, too, is an altruistic hope, one that is not realized today at any museum. Museums today rely heavily on loaned collections that are owned by individuals. Perhaps this is a good first step. These individuals are always credited with their names highlighted in every medium associated with the publicity behind these exhibitions. It would be entirely possible that Stanly Pranin could be one of the founding members behind the Museum, and again that would be towards his credit, an effort which among others of his I would deservingly acknowledge.




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Old 09-06-2005, 01:00 AM   #54
Mashu
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Re: Aikido Journal

Shaun R.,

Thank you for your reply. I still don't understand what you would want to be in a physical museum of Aikido. What does Aikido Journal or other groups possess that would best be on display in some collection? Do they have large amounts of primary source material that nobody else has that they don't share?

Best regards,

Matthew
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Old 09-06-2005, 01:15 AM   #55
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Permanent, public, not-for-profit Aikido Museum.

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Abe could have done it (you said before that he had the idea), but didn't, do you think that he was neglecting his "duty to the farm"? If so, where's the criticism of Abe and his "money making machine"?
When it comes to martial arts as a cultural heritage Abe Sensei has done specific things and set in motion others that put him in a category for which few can even find the proper name. In Japan he is a National Living treasure. It is not for me to speak for Abe Sensei here. I will say (and this is just my opinion) that Seiseki Abe Sensei has done more to preserve O-Sensei's Aikido than any ten men alive today that you can mention. If you knew him you would say the same. If O-Sensei's Aikido is of any real importance to you, I invite you to make the effort to get to know him - at whatever cost and sacrifice.

I think it extremely important to make the point (and for you Chris to acknowledge) that Abe Sensei does not make money selling pictures or videos of O-Sensei, or himself - both of which he could do for quite a large profit. That is his way, and it is to be respected, not alluded to as something negative by association.

Abe Sensei is a living example of the Museum that I have recommended we create. He is a rally point around which others contribute source material. I can 't say more at this time, but I have recently embarked, although only at the discussion level for the moment, on a plan to bring some of this source materials to light.



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Old 09-06-2005, 01:27 AM   #56
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Permanent, public, not-for-profit Aikido Museum.

Quote:
Matthew Zsebik wrote:
Shaun R.,

Thank you for your reply. I still don't understand what you would want to be in a physical museum of Aikido. What does Aikido Journal or other groups possess that would best be on display in some collection? Do they have large amounts of primary source material that nobody else has that they don't share?

Best regards,

Matthew
Matthew, I don't mean to be glib when I say that if you don't know what the difference between what a Museum does and a website does, then you should get out more. Seriously, go to any major museum and ask them their purpose. Or, if you like, you can go to their website (no pun intended) and read their mission statement. Museums have websites, not the other way around.

Okay, my vacation is over, so it is back to my regularly scheduled routine of watching television, doing misogi and teaching aikido. Hopefully the cheerleaders have cheered enough and they, too must return to their so-called lives. I won't be posting replies to anything other than blatant misinformation or actual useful questions and comments. It has been fun, thought provoking even though it was sometimes downright silly, humorous and unfortunately narrow minded and sad. That was the last post for me today, as I have to teach class in a few hours...

Good night to all, and to all a good night.



.
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Old 09-06-2005, 01:34 AM   #57
Chris Li
 
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Re: Permanent, public, not-for-profit Aikido Museum.

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
When it comes to martial arts as a cultural heritage Abe Sensei has done specific things and set in motion others that put him in a category for which few can even find the proper name. In Japan he is a National Living treasure. It is not for me to speak for Abe Sensei here. I will say (and this is just my opinion) that Seiseki Abe Sensei has done more to preserve O-Sensei's Aikido than any ten men alive today that you can mention. If you knew him you would say the same. If O-Sensei's Aikido is of any real importance to you, I invite you to make the effort to get to know him - at whatever cost and sacrifice.

I think it extremely important to make the point (and for you Chris to acknowledge) that Abe Sensei does not make money selling pictures or videos of O-Sensei, or himself - both of which he could do for quite a large profit. That is his way, and it is to be respected, not alluded to as something negative by association.
I didn't allude to it as something negative, my point was that someone who does many positive things (as Abe does, and as you admitted that Stan Pranin has) ought not to be criticized because he doesn't do other, unrelated, things.

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
Abe Sensei is a living example of the Museum that I have recommended we create. He is a rally point around which others contribute source material. I can 't say more at this time, but I have recently embarked, although only at the discussion level for the moment, on a plan to bring some of this source materials to light.
Well that's great. Isn't that what I suggested in the first place?

Best,

Chris

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Old 09-06-2005, 06:15 AM   #58
crbateman
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Re: Permanent, public, not-for-profit Aikido Museum.

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
Like Chris Li used the word "criticize" you use of the word "Cynic" is in a negative tone, so as it goes, you are as negative as you accuse me of being.
Shaun, I am certainly negative when it comes to the senseless denigration of good people who have done good things. As for my use of the word "cynic", look at the definition above that you were good enough to provide. I know you only by your ravings here, and, although I'm sure you're not an ancient Greek philosopher, the other two definitions in the list would seem to fit. If this is not you, then don't write like it. You leave a sad impression. Or perhaps you get some sort of vicarious satisfaction from stirring up the sh*t, so for that reason I am through feeding this thread.
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:17 AM   #59
SeiserL
 
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Re: Aikido Journal

Being a cheerleader, a AJ and AW featured author (not to mention Tuttle), and someone actually attempting to contribute to the Aikido world, I would be curious to know actually what is available through the Aikido World Headquarters, the Aikikai Foundation, and the Ueshiba family since they are "the" direct source.

I will look forward to any source material or museum, free or otherwise.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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