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Old 08-21-2005, 11:27 AM   #1
maxwell
Dojo: Ki no Kenkyukai
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3
Germany
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Talking Question about Aikido (Ki-Aikido)

Hallo all,

I see in almost all Clip about aikido , there are always such scene: An (Single or Multiple) student (Uke) run to his Sensei and try to hit the Sensei , the Sensei make some movement and then the student fly and make a beautiful breakfall ...
In this case , the sensei is ready to receive an attack.

My Question ist ...

1. are there any technique in Aikido (especially Ki no Kenkyukai Aikido) to defend against choke or grab (e.g someone suddenly grab your hand/collar/hair, Bear hug , etc) ?
I mean , we are not always in a standby position to receive an attack , but in reality attacker would attack us, when we are not ready , and the attacker will not always run toward you (so you can use his energy against him)...
So i would like to know, if Aikido have technique against such attack.

2.Could somebody tell me what are the difference between Traditional Aikikai Aikido and Ki no Kenkyukai Aikido ? I just know that Ki no Kenkyukai focus more on Ki Development .... but how about the defensive / Self defence technique ??

A friend of mine said, that Ki no Kenkyukai Aikido does not have Joint lock technique .... I am wondering .... What would Aikido be, without Joint lock technique ????
For sure Aikido does not have Punch & Kick like Karate .. Does not have Throw and Ground fighting technique like Judo ..... and now ... does not have Joint lock technique ... so What does Ki no Kenkyukai have ?? *Confuse*

Thank you very much.
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Old 08-21-2005, 03:02 PM   #2
Tommy_S
Dojo: Aikido society Zagreb
Location: Zagreb
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 28
Croatia
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Re: Question about Aikido (Ki-Aikido)

Quote:
Jason May wrote:
My Question ist ...

1. are there any technique in Aikido (especially Ki no Kenkyukai Aikido) to defend against choke or grab (e.g someone suddenly grab your hand/collar/hair, Bear hug , etc) ?
Yes, there are techniques against choke or grab present in Ki-aikido.
Quote:
Jason May wrote:
2.Could somebody tell me what are the difference between Traditional Aikikai Aikido and Ki no Kenkyukai Aikido ? I just know that Ki no Kenkyukai focus more on Ki Development .... but how about the defensive / Self defence technique ??
Basically, Ki-aikido looks a bit "softer" when compared to traditional Aikido, but that doesn't make it weak (as some people think that soft=weak; I would rather say it's more harmonized.) Most of the techniques are pretty much the same as in traditional styles (like Aikikai, Iwama etc).

The biggest difference is in special ki-development exercises (breathing, meditation etc.) From my experience it seems that other styles don't pay much attention to this type of ki development, while some of them don't even mention ki....
Quote:
Jason May wrote:
A friend of mine said, that Ki no Kenkyukai Aikido does not have Joint lock technique .... I am wondering .... What would Aikido be, without Joint lock technique ????
Joint locks? You mean things like ikkyo, nikkyo, sankyo... ? I don't know where your friend got that information, but it's wrong. Ki-aikido has joint locks just like any other style of aikido....
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Old 08-21-2005, 06:41 PM   #3
tedehara
 
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Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
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Re: Question about Aikido (Ki-Aikido)

In response to your questions:

1. Aikido and Ki-Aikido are composed of grappling techniques. How effective they are applied would depend on the situation and the individuals involved.

2. Aikikai is an organization composed of many different styles. There is no singular style style that can be named "Aikikai". The Ki Society practices only one style of aikido commonly called Ki-Aikido.

Because the Ki Society emphasizes mind and body coordination, they focus on the techniques from this viewpoint. Many of the techniques which would be done in an Aikikai dojo using an atemi (strike), are practiced without the strike in a Ki Society dojo.

Ki-Aikido stresses leading in the technique, than using other martial options like strikes (atemi) or joint-locks. Of course the atemi or joint-locks are inherent in the techniques, but are not regularly practiced.

Even in a technique like sankyo, the partner (uke) is lead through the technique. You don't need the pain of the joint-lock to complete the sankyo. A good practitioner can lead their partner through the technique with little or no pain from the joint-lock. This applies to all soft stylists, not just the Ki Society.

Ki-Aikido is dynamic, in that it is constantly changing. These changes come from Ki Society Hdqrs. in Japan, through the annual national instructors' meetings. In many cases these changes are small, trying to emphasize the ki movement of the technique.

The Ki Society dojo may practice arts that are not martially related. Misogi, ki exercises, ki breathing and ki meditation are used for ki development. Aiki weapons techniques for jo and bokken are practiced. Taigi practice uses Ki-Aikido techniques for a competitive judging contest. Kiatsu-ho is an accupressure healing system that is practiced.

3. Hopefully for both Aikikai and Ki Society members, their practice will make them more aware of what is going on around them. So they don't get caught flat-footed in a real confrontation. This will give them an chance to use the art of aikido, to extract themselves without using a "fighting" mind.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 08-22-2005, 03:36 AM   #4
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
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Re: Question about Aikido (Ki-Aikido)

Excellent replies by Ted and Tommy as always, now for my twopenneth..

1. If you aren't given any energy in an attack, it's not an attack. Even a static choke involves the attacker using force to some degree, giving you levers which can be used. For us, chokes etc. follow one simple rule, move before they're on - the point at which they make contact (or even enter your safe area) should be your trigger point for starting the technique. We deliberately practice at different ranges and starting in a 50-50 situation as we also don't like the "run in and fall" attacks.

2. The differences are only as great as those that exist between the aikikai dojos I've seen. The only addition is, as mentioned, the use of ki-exercises to develop posture, breathing and body awareness and less emphasis on atemi as a finisher.

3. No joint locks - ridiculous, if your source had said no sacrifice throws or sumio-toshi, perhaps (again, dojo Dependant)

Does not have... what does it have? Well, awareness has been mentioned, but it does have throws (true, not like judo unless you have to) and joint locks. I suppose I'd describe it as more akin to fencing, the power is in the timing. You evade and blend using footwork rather than block or grapple and you throw by cutting your partners balance either through sweeps, overloading the joints or using the levers your partner presents. Hope this helps.
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Old 08-22-2005, 09:44 AM   #5
Larry John
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington VA
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
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Re: Question about Aikido (Ki-Aikido)

Jason,

Believe your first question is really what ushiro waza is all about.

On the subject of kicks, Mitsugi Saotome-sensei spent an entire class on kicking techniques and defenses at this year's Summer Camp in the Rockies (boy, were my thighs sore after that!).

At camp, we also worked with Frank Doran-sensei, Hiroshi Ikeda-sensei, and many other high ranking aikidoka who showed the ability to use devastating punches, elbow strikes, palm heel strikes, knees, and other other atemi in the course of an engagement. All the strikes are inside the various techniques--it's part of the student's job to recognize them and determine when they're appropriate.

Perhaps the real trick in our form of budo is to have all of these capabilities available, AND to know how to manage the engagement in such a way that we won't have to use them if an attacker gets the message of his vulnerability soon enough.

Larry
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Old 08-22-2005, 10:32 AM   #6
Dominic Toupin
Location: Quebec City
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 72
Canada
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Re: Question about Aikido (Ki-Aikido)

Quote:
Jason May wrote:



1. are there any technique in Aikido (especially Ki no Kenkyukai Aikido) to defend against choke or grab (e.g someone suddenly grab your hand/collar/hair, Bear hug , etc) ?
I attend a seminar with Toshiro Suga Shihan last week-end. We did 2 hours of shime-waza counter techniques. Uke will choke Tori and Tori will execute some technique to counter the choke like shiho-nage, Koshi-Nage etc...

Dominic
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