Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-21-2005, 10:06 PM   #1
dan guthrie
Dojo: Aikido of SLO
Location: Morro Bay
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 139
United_States
Offline
Question Politics don't belong in the dojo

I thought I'd start a new thread rather than hijack the existing "politics in Aikido practice" thread.

I don't like it when people discuss politics in the dojo. I've learned it's unlikely to help and very likely to cause trouble, just like discussing religion.
I have a pretty good idea what some of my fellow aikidoka's political leanings are. I've tried very hard to keep mine a secret.

Am I the only one who feels this way?



p.s. The first person who divulges their politics in this thread is "it."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2005, 10:40 PM   #2
Mashu
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Dan Guthrie wrote:
Am I the only one who feels this way?
I hope not. When one thing becomes two it's usually bad. Leave the politics, the buy the hemp weapons bags designed by Sally Two Bears, and support the preservation of the spotted horny toed badger stuff outside the dojo please.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2005, 10:54 PM   #3
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 515
United Nations
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Politics seems badly polarized in the States at the moment, so I can see why not bringing it up can keep the peace.

This is less of an issue in the UK where ALL politicians are regarded as scum
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2005, 11:18 PM   #4
Joe Bowen
 
Joe Bowen's Avatar
Dojo: Yongsan Aikikai
Location: But now I'm in the UK
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 210
South Korea
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Matthew Zsebik wrote:
...Leave the politics, the buy the hemp weapons bags designed by Sally Two Bears, and support the preservation of the spotted horny toed badger stuff outside the dojo please.
Does this qualify as declaring your political ideas against these? Does that make you "it"?

I agree with leaving the politics and religion outside the dojo. I won't discuss politics or religion unless you are willing to by the beer....and lots of it....
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2005, 11:35 PM   #5
Mashu
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

I have nothing against saving the great northern farting llamas of Ecuador. I just want as little distraction as possible where I train. Even so far as saying that sometimes having dojo mates as friends can be a detriment. I liked training in Japan because many of the distractions found in Western dojo were happily absent. If I wanted to know more about the spiritual side of Aikido or what other members thought about politics or other things I had to make an effort to find out. Usually over tea or many beers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2005, 02:24 AM   #6
Joe Bowen
 
Joe Bowen's Avatar
Dojo: Yongsan Aikikai
Location: But now I'm in the UK
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 210
South Korea
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Matthew Zsebik wrote:
I have nothing against saving the great northern farting llamas of Ecuador. I just want as little distraction as possible where I train....If I wanted to know more about the spiritual side of Aikido or what other members thought about politics or other things I had to make an effort to find out. Usually over tea or many beers.
Ok, so maybe you're not it. Sound philosophy could not agree more....
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2005, 03:26 AM   #7
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Hi all,

When I first started to train in 1993, aikido to me was just aikido. As far as I was concerned then, Morihei Ueshiba was the founder of the art and K Tohei was his senior disciple and the chief instructor in Tokyo. Didn't know there was a Yoshinkan or other kan/ryu of aikido. How ignorant but bliss was I then with the training? The books that I had then "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" and "This is Aikido" didn't mentioned such things as they were written in the 60's. I enjoyed the classes and my first instructor never talk about politics and such things. All (ignorance and bliss) soon came to end when an association was formed and instructors were rotated.

I do agree that politics don't belong in the dojo and I would add that it is the instructors' responsibilities to keep them out at all means.

Still happy training (and half-blind to politics)

David Y

Last edited by David Yap : 08-22-2005 at 03:29 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2005, 03:35 AM   #8
Roban
Location: Glasgow
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 29
Scotland
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

I would have thought if people are making time at the dojo to discuss anything then that's a waste of good training time!

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2005, 05:05 AM   #9
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
Location: Stockholm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 550
Sweden
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Im a little bit confused regarding this thread actually.
It goes without saying that you dont talk about politics during training.
But you actually find it disturbing if people discuss different subjucts such as music, movies, politics, etc in the dressingroom or sauna after practice?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2005, 07:28 AM   #10
KamiKaze_Evolution
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 125
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
David Yap wrote:
Hi all,

When I first started to train in 1993, aikido to me was just aikido. As far as I was concerned then, Morihei Ueshiba was the founder of the art and K Tohei was his senior disciple and the chief instructor in Tokyo. Didn't know there was a Yoshinkan or other kan/ryu of aikido. How ignorant but bliss was I then with the training? The books that I had then "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" and "This is Aikido" didn't mentioned such things as they were written in the 60's. I enjoyed the classes and my first instructor never talk about politics and such things. All (ignorance and bliss) soon came to end when an association was formed and instructors were rotated.

I do agree that politics don't belong in the dojo and I would add that it is the instructors' responsibilities to keep them out at all means.

Still happy training (and half-blind to politics)

David Y
You're right, i'm also don't bother about these things. No wonder am i keiko in Aikikai Malaysia or MAA, at least i've very enjoy while keiko. That's useless to argue about such things, very harmness isn't it? I belief that you will agree it, but sorry if i talk some sensitive issues here.

KamiKaze
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2005, 08:15 AM   #11
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Matthew Zsebik wrote:
I liked training in Japan because many of the distractions found in Western dojo were happily absent.
Sasaki Shihan at the Aikikai Honbu dojo constantly talks politics in class.

Charles Hill
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2005, 08:57 PM   #12
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
Sasaki Shihan at the Aikikai Honbu dojo constantly talks politics in class.

Charles Hill
Hi Charles,

Just curious. Aikikai politics, aikido politics or just politics in general???

Regards

David Y
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2005, 11:15 PM   #13
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

How 'bout dojo politics!?

Jeanne
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005, 03:11 AM   #14
Tim Ruijs
 
Tim Ruijs's Avatar
Dojo: Makato/Netherlands
Location: Netherlands - Leusden
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 395
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Time at the dojo is precious as it is. Obviously there is no room for politics, chit-chat or what have you on the tatami. As was suggested above, simply have a drink after practice and discuss whatever you want amongst friends. Before practice these discussions tend to leave the dressing room and continue on the tatami, which I consider bad practice.
In case the sensei wishes to discuss (aikido related) politics, it should occur outside regular classes as not every student may have an ear for it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005, 07:34 AM   #15
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Hi David,

Sasaki Shihan talks regular politics. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say about Koizumi's recent apology and about visits to the Yasukuni shrine (where Japanese soldiers executed for war crimes were interred.) He talks a LOT in class. What he says is sometimes hard to stomach, but he has one of the most beautiful iriminage throws I have ever seen, so I often attended his class when I was living in Tokyo.

Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005, 10:57 PM   #16
dan guthrie
Dojo: Aikido of SLO
Location: Morro Bay
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 139
United_States
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
Hi David,

Sasaki Shihan talks regular politics. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say about Koizumi's recent apology and about visits to the Yasukuni shrine (where Japanese soldiers executed for war crimes were interred.) He talks a LOT in class. What he says is sometimes hard to stomach, but he has one of the most beautiful iriminage throws I have ever seen, so I often attended his class when I was living in Tokyo.

Charles
My point is exactly this: how much better your training would have been without the politics.

I should add that this isn't a problem in any dojo I've ever been in. It just occurred to me after reading the other "political" thread. I thought about raising the subject of Osensei's politics in the dojo.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005, 11:22 PM   #17
swchiro
 
swchiro's Avatar
Location: Orange County CA
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 10
United_States
Offline
Thumbs down Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

as an added thing for people to read....Politics do not belong in the work place, dojo, or bedroom....but, if you are not a loyal american who believes in our American way, get out of my country, state, city, and dojo!...Period!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2005, 11:26 PM   #18
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,021
Japan
Online
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

So much for my dojo visit.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 01:54 AM   #19
sullivanw
Dojo: Portland Aikikai
Location: Portland
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 82
United_States
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

I am of the mind that political debates don't belong in the dojo - but no debates really do, as far as I can see. If someone says something offhand and receives a reply then both parties should agree to discuss the issue elsewhere. We go to the dojo to train, not tussle over who is ruining/saving the world. Or whatever. So, small talk OK (like we could avoid that); heated discussions not OK. And politics, hmmm... I seem to rember some old adage about avoiding discussing politics and religion in certain circumstances.

Quote:
Steven Summers wrote:
as an added thing for people to read....Politics do not belong in the work place, dojo, or bedroom....but, if you are not a loyal american who believes in our American way, get out of my country, state, city, and dojo!...Period!
Mr. Summers, respectfully, your post contains a pretty intolerant perspective. How exactly do you define "loyal american" and "our American way" ? Also, there quite likely are some Americans who would like for you to get out of 'their' country, state, etc. I am sure that there would be sound arguments on both sides, so what is the solution?

If you wish to respond, please feel free to PM me so that we don't end up derailing the thread. Or spawning another called "Politics don't belong on aikiweb!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 01:59 AM   #20
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,021
Japan
Online
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

What about those of us who aren't even American?

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 02:07 AM   #21
p00kiethebear
 
p00kiethebear's Avatar
Dojo: Tonbo Dojo
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 374
United_States
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Yeah it's funny how "politics don't belong in the dojo"
Obviously most dojos do a good job of keeping national politics out of the training.

But.

It's disgusting how dojos have their own agendas and how much influence Aikido and other Martial Art Politics (MAPs) influence the teaching of the students and the curiculum they are taught.

Quote:
Mr. Summers, respectfully, your post contains a pretty intolerant perspective. How exactly do you define "loyal american" and "our American way" ? Also, there quite likely are some Americans who would like for you to get out of 'their' country, state, etc. I am sure that there would be sound arguments on both sides, so what is the solution?
I believe he was being facetious

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 02:10 AM   #22
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,021
Japan
Online
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

You sure Nathan - post count of 1.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 02:14 AM   #23
p00kiethebear
 
p00kiethebear's Avatar
Dojo: Tonbo Dojo
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 374
United_States
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt. He seemed to be making a comment about modern politics in the same way people will jokingly say "It's okay to be gay! Just not around me!"

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 02:28 AM   #24
dyffcult
Location: Visalia, California
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 105
United_States
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Steven stated.....if you are not a loyal american who believes in our American way, get out of my country, state, city, and dojo!...

Politics do not belong in a dojo....

But I do agree with Steven's statement (up to the point of dojo) ....even if it was .... what was the word....ah yes, facetious.

My country...right or wrong. If right, to stand by it .... if wrong, to change from within.

Brenda
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 12:43 PM   #25
Adam Alexander
Dojo: none currently
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 499
United_States
Offline
Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Dan Guthrie wrote:
I thought I'd start a new thread rather than hijack the existing "politics in Aikido practice" thread.

I don't like it when people discuss politics in the dojo. I've learned it's unlikely to help and very likely to cause trouble, just like discussing religion.
I have a pretty good idea what some of my fellow aikidoka's political leanings are. I've tried very hard to keep mine a secret.

Am I the only one who feels this way?



p.s. The first person who divulges their politics in this thread is "it."
In the dojo, I don't want to know about your religion, politics, kids, wife, dog, fetish, whatever.

I want to know how you throw and get thrown. I want to know how to take your balance and how you take my balance.

After class at the bar, I don't want to know about your religion, politics, kids, wife, dog, fetish, whatever.

I want to know how you think you get thrown and how you think I take a throw. I want to know how you think I took your balance and how you think you took mine.


However, if you (figuratively) mention politics, I will not fail to respond with a bitter crack.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High level power abuse Frank Anonymous 52 06-09-2008 04:21 AM
Regarding James Smith Bedard Announcements & Feedback 183 02-17-2006 09:15 PM
Succession Planning Rocky Izumi Voices of Experience 5 11-23-2005 05:32 PM
Need advice/new guy to area's dojo YinYaker Training 17 02-15-2005 01:57 PM
Dissatisfied at my Dojo Ryan Porter General 8 07-09-2004 05:39 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:45 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate