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Old 07-19-2005, 05:14 PM   #1
samurai_kenshin
 
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Ever changing Aikido

Aikido seems to be ever changing. I'm gone from the dojo for only a month, and at least 5 empty-hand techniques ahve changed since I left. I'm wondering if anyone has had similar problems and if so, how were they dealt with? When I do techniques, the yudansha often call it "yesteraiki". Thanks for the help,
James

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.
-Barry LePatner
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:21 PM   #2
aikigirl10
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

James,

I hate when stuff like this happens. I think the only reason it changes , is because sensei's get bored. period.
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Old 07-19-2005, 11:16 PM   #3
Dirk Hanss
 
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

Well, James,
I don't know what changes there are. I mostly faced two types of changes.
  1. developing class; when a class is learning Aikido, sensei usually starts to show the basic moves. Later he will put accent on right body holding and move and somewhen it will get dynamic. Although it is always been the same technique, it looks quite different and I always have the impression to start again from early beginning.
  2. variations; there are thousands of variations of the basic techniques in Aikido and each one has to find out, which variation matches best his body and strength in which situation. So it is quite typical, that each time sensei comes from a seminar, s/he brings some fresh variations. And very often they seem to be very different from everything you've learned before.. Just after getting used to the different form and rhythm, you will see, that it is in fact only a slight variation of the "old" form.

So yes, in any case it is hard, but try your best. That is the way you learn flexibility.

Cheers Dirk
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Old 07-20-2005, 04:11 AM   #4
Amir Krause
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

Quote:
Dirk Hanss wrote:
Well, James,
I don't know what changes there are. I mostly faced two types of changes.
  1. developing class; when a class is learning Aikido, sensei usually starts to show the basic moves. Later he will put accent on right body holding and move and somewhen it will get dynamic. Although it is always been the same technique, it looks quite different and I always have the impression to start again from early beginning.
  2. variations; there are thousands of variations of the basic techniques in Aikido and each one has to find out, which variation matches best his body and strength in which situation. So it is quite typical, that each time sensei comes from a seminar, s/he brings some fresh variations. And very often they seem to be very different from everything you've learned before.. Just after getting used to the different form and rhythm, you will see, that it is in fact only a slight variation of the "old" form.

So yes, in any case it is hard, but try your best. That is the way you learn flexibility.

Cheers Dirk
Another type of changes I have seen, is a change in focus and emphasis. At times, sensei decides a certain element of the techniques is performed in a wrong or ineffective way, and then sensei may change the focus to that element, for correcting it.

Some of these changes, may appear as a drastic change on the outside (for example pressure points for directing Uke to the Kuzushi of some technique).

Amir
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:24 AM   #5
happysod
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

James, quick question, is it your syllabus training that's changing or the non-syllabus work?

Paige, disagree, it's not just boredom (although I'll plead guilty to the odd "I can't stand one more standard kotegaeshi, lets try something different"). For me, there are two areas which bring in changes. A decent teacher is learning all the time as well and this can change the way you address a technique if you find one aspect that needs specific work or can be done more efficiently. As Amir said, this change in emphasis can also be caused if you spot a particular "problem" occurring in the class (lazy turns etc.)

Secondly, if you're teaching a mixed kyu-class which you can't break into smaller similar-ranked groups, you often have to teach the same technique with a totally different emphasis depending on which grade you're mainly directing the teaching to. This can also lead to the technique changing its emphasis.
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:31 AM   #6
samurai_kenshin
 
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

Well, I was on vacation for 4 weeks, during which time we began to throw a little farther out on tsuki kotegaishi, become more perpendicular with our partner while doing kata dori nikkyo ura, kokyu-ing someone back up after kokyu dosa...the list goes on. Weapons work hasn't changed in a while, but one day I went to the dojo and there we were, while doing tsuki jodan gaishi uchi, blocking like the second of the 31 kata.

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.
-Barry LePatner
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:37 AM   #7
grondahl
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

Hitohiro Saito-variations maybe?
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Old 07-20-2005, 06:04 PM   #8
samurai_kenshin
 
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

that's what I think it is.

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.
-Barry LePatner
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:52 PM   #9
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

I have trained in several styles of Aikido and have seen such 'changes' many times. There are many reasons, some of which are wrong, but more 'ways' can lead to more 'ideas', which in the long run can only be good. But more importantly, between styles, between teachers, and even between techniques, it is the similarities that make Aikido what it is - Aikido.

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Old 07-21-2005, 01:07 AM   #10
maikerus
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote:
But more importantly, between styles, between teachers, and even between techniques, it is the similarities that make Aikido what it is - Aikido.
Rupert...Excellent point. I have been told many times to look for the similarities in technique rather than the difference to find out where the core Aikido is when comparing instructors.

And now am starting to understand exactly what that means <wry grin>

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-26-2005, 05:51 AM   #11
Stefaan Six
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

Hi all ! (I'm new here - see the introductions forum... )
I can relate very well to what this thread is about; in fact my teacher (Tomita sensei) regularly changes the technical forms from time to time, because he doesn't want his students to hang on to fixed forms. According to him O'sensei never showed exactly the same technique twice and in fact detested the idea of having 'forms', but very much emphasized principles rather than technical forms. My teacher uses to say : "I show you one way, but when you teach you can make many". On the other hand he also says "you can forget about the net after you have caught the fish, but until then you have to knit a strong and solid net". When I asked him for explanation he said that we need the forms as an entrance to aikido (to learn the principles) but afterwards we should forget about them; instead keeping a clear mind (mushin) for being able to react instantly when needed without distractions - without being fixed in your mind.
Just my two cents...
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Old 07-27-2005, 02:53 AM   #12
Nick Simpson
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

From what i've seen, most teachers change their techniques or modify their principles over time. Sometimes it is a big change, other times barely noticeable. Your own aikido also tends to change over time, mine certainly has, mostly from a combination of studying with different instructors, whats suited towards my body type/height/weight and then some of my own little stylistic tendancies. The 'standard' nikkyo that I use nowadays is nothing like the 'standard' nikkyo i used 2 years ago, and I doubt it will be the same in another 2 years time, or I at least hope so, becuase otherwise I wont have progressed. Thats the beauty of aikido innit, its ever changing.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:47 AM   #13
grondahl
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

But isnīt there a huge difference between "changes" and "changes".

My understanding and execution of ex shomen uchi ikkyo will always change due to (hopefully) better understanding and training.
But what I think that the thread starter is going thru is a change in the way basic motions is made, due to the fact that Hitohiro Saito sensei is putting his own twist on what his father taught him.
And when basics is a large part of training, changes in the way basics is performed is a big change.

A little like if the top ranking Yoshinkan instructors started to change the way kihon dosa is performed.
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Old 08-04-2005, 12:23 AM   #14
samurai_kenshin
 
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

well, some of the changes I like, but the main problem I personally have with changes is that in 4 or 5 years when It changes back to what it used to be, i'll have to learn it all over again...I tried the new kata dori nikkyo ura waza and it is easier, but I tend to go haywire once it changes back. I'm used to dropping and entering as seperate motions in morote dori kokyu ho, but lo and behold, one day I walk in and there we are smothly joining the two motions. It just throws me off. I'm not talking about personal changes, but large scale changes in which the whole style seems to shift. It's like the joke about the aikidoka screwing in a lightbulb. It takes eleven of them. One to actually preform the technique, but ten others to say, "Very nice, but it's done differently nowadays." On the other hand, I guess that's what makes Aikido so exciting and keeps me on my toes and ever correcting/modifying my technique.

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.
-Barry LePatner
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:15 AM   #15
Nick Simpson
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Re: Ever changing Aikido

' On the other hand, I guess that's what makes Aikido so exciting and keeps me on my toes and ever correcting/modifying my technique. '

Xactly. Wouldnt it get boring if you practised the same technique the same way for the rest of your aikido career?

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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