Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-29-2005, 03:24 PM   #51
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 819
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
I'm glad this thread has come up. Obviously, I'm in the right place to ask some questions that have weighed on my mind about training with women. Several questions:

1) Kokyunage - ...
I've never found this a problem.

Quote:
2) Lapel grab -
I tend to get pinched a lot and like Jen said I pull up some of my gi and offer it giving your something to grab. I usually wear a tee shirt and workout bra so I'm not worried about getting "exposed". Gis just fall open no matter because they don't close around my size C/D cup breasts unless I'm wearing a Bujin women's gi top.

I'm with Mary though. Don't try to overcompensate because you are afraid that your hand is going to be near a woman's breast. Grab the gi right over the breast. Accidents happen and there is a big difference between something intentional and something accidental. If it's and accident just apoligize and keep on training.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 03:45 PM   #52
RebeccaM
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Location: Boulder
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 136
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

I take accidental touching in stride. Aikido is full contact. It happens. Intentional groping, OTOH, is another matter and not something I've ever encountered on the mat (and hopefully never will).

I've never thought of the chest hair issue with men, but I'll keep that in mind for the future. I try to be careful with lapel grabs and such, but that's more because one of my pet peeves is getting my skin grabbed and twisted along with the gi, so I try not to do that to anyone else. I also try to avoid getting people by the neck hair, since that hurts too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 03:50 PM   #53
cserrit
 
cserrit's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of San Diego
Location: San Diego
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 28
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
I would be self-conscious about having my arm brushing a woman's breasts as opposed to upper chest...What are your thoughts on this situation?
In the majority of the times...it goes so quickly that neither of us realizes what really happened...If it is an accident then I let it go...part Aikido is of being "in close" with your partner. Now if they are blatant...then something is said to them.

Quote:
... I had a lot of attention on grabbing up high close to the shoulder, not pulling on the gi at ALL so as not to open the gi in the slilghtest. Have you ladies ever had a problem with someone grabbing your gi and being exposed? (under bra being beside the point)
I (and I would say, the majority of women), wear a sports (colorful) bra. I wear them when I run (w/o a shirt) so "exposure" is not a problem for me. I would hope that women would come and watch a more advance class and see that having a gi "pulled open" during a grab could be a possibility and decide whether they want to be in that situation. I have not seen the women at our dojo too concerned with this...they are just working on the technique.

Quote:
... I wouldn't want them to feel awkward or intimidated... and when you're 6'2" and 255 lbs, you tend to intimidate people not familiar with martial arts. Any advide on this? Dealing with new women students?
Which would be more intimidating? 6'2" and 255 lbs in a controlled, safe environment or 6'2" and 255 lbs in a dark alley?

Just my 2Ē

-C
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 03:54 PM   #54
Pauliina Lievonen
 
Pauliina Lievonen's Avatar
Dojo: Jiki Shin Kan Utrecht
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 559
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

I think it's really simple - if you grab me too hard, and I say so, please loosen up a bit, if I want to take harder falls, Iīll say so, please throw me harder. I think if my breasts get squeezed or touched, itīs my problem, and if you feel embarrassed about it, thatīs your problem!

I usually offer a lapel to my partner to save them the embarrasment, lol.

kvaak
Pauliina
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 07:43 PM   #55
bleepbeep
Dojo: kyokan dojo bacolod city/dale city aikikai, va
Location: VA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 62
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

I think the minute I signed up for aikido I also signed up for whatever happens on the mats and part of all of it are the grabbing, throwing, pinning etc.

i would rather that it would be according to my ability to take ukemi and the skill that I have that my partner deal with me and not my gender.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 06:40 AM   #56
Meggy Gurova
Dojo: Chowa
Location: Sofia
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 50
Bulgaria
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Stella Fuentes wrote:
I think the minute I signed up for aikido I also signed up for whatever happens on the mats and part of all of it are the grabbing, throwing, pinning etc.
True!
I still suffer some of the things I had to change in order to train aikido (cut my nails, not use so much make up on the days I practice , not to use jullary)....
Do you guys get some make up on your gi when you practice with women? Sometimes when I train with a little bit more make up than usual I accidentally color the sleeves of my trainings partners, and I always feel so bad about it
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 06:53 AM   #57
Mary Eastland
 
Mary Eastland's Avatar
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,156
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

[quote=John Boswell]I'm glad this thread has come up. Obviously, I'm in the right place to ask some questions that have weighed on my mind about training with women. Several questions:

1) Kokyunage - the arm often times comes right across the chest. I would be self-conscious about having my arm brushing a woman's breasts as opposed to upper chest. With guys, I don't have to worry, but with women...??? What are your thoughts on this situation?

It would not bother me.

2) Lapel grab - when I have trained with women in the past (very few) I had a lot of attention on grabbing up high close to the shoulder, not pulling on the gi at ALL so as not to open the gi in the slilghtest. Have you ladies ever had a problem with someone grabbing your gi and being exposed? (under bra being beside the point)

It is just breasts. I think it bothers the guy way more than it bothers me.

3) Women's self defense classes - The idea of having such a class has been tossed around our school, but I think we've been waiting to open the new dojo before doing such a thing. What would you recommend us guys to do to put ladies at ease with training in such a class? Right now, we have no women in our classes so those teaching would be the guys... training the women. I wouldn't want them to feel awkward or intimidated... and when you're 6'2" and 255 lbs, you tend to intimidate people not familiar with martial arts. Any advide on this? Dealing with new women students?


What do you know about women's SD?......It is a lot more than a few techniques.
I am asking this respectfully. I think it is a great idea...I am just wondering if you have any ideas about it yourself.

If you like you can check out my website for some ideas....just follow the link from BHA. It is under my name in instructors.
Mary

Last edited by Mary Eastland : 07-30-2005 at 06:55 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 12:26 PM   #58
maeukemi
Dojo: Kyushinkan dojo - Roswell, GA
Location: Woodstock, GA
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Where I train, I am -- very often!-- the only female in a room full of very large men, over half the time. I am not "well-endowed" but not tiny either. The kokyunage issue hasn't come up except once--even then, it was because *I* had done poor ukemi that I was in a position where my chest got squashed. I like training with "just the guys" -- although as today proved, training with " really eager shodan" can get a little iffy I am, personally, more sensitive about giving control of my head and neck and throat up to someone than anything else... Irimi and iriminage and the rare choke-hold practice are more difficult, psychologically, for me than kokyunage. So when we do "choke-waza" (we've only done it once so far), we try to pair up by gender and size; if there's no other female, sensei will pair up with me himself or with one of the kids.

As far as "politeness" goes... I wear a sports bra and a tank top. Most of the other women just wear the sports bra/undershirt under their gi, but I'm not comfortable with that idea yet since I still have problems with gi-tying. I don't get "exposed", ever.

I will say that I do really appreciate those of our shodan who also wear T-shirts, even though they don't "have to." I consider it reciprocal politeness.

I would much rather "train to ability with respect to physical condition" (I'm new so I take minor injuries quite often--I'm learning!) than have someone train with me differently "because I'm a girl". I have run into some difficulties at times because my ukemi isn't at the same level as my atemi. I used to "hold back" because my ukemi is very poor, and I didn't want nage to speed me through the technique because of the strength of my attack, but then sensei would have me do extra turns until I wasn't holding back anymore

One of the things I like best about aikido is that ability matters most. And ability is something we can only improve over time.

I have never yet been harassed in that way by any of the other students where I train. If anything we are all over-cautious with each other, and have to ask for stronger attacks... the men are as sensitive about the chest-hair issue as the few women are about the chest issue...'sensitive' in terms of "not wanting to hurt each other."

There are a few techniques that cause me some mental squirms when we do them, because an eye-ful of anyone's chest isn't pretty... and the men's gi's tend to open more easily because they all put a lot of power into their techniques...but I just try to learn the movements very well, as quickly as possible, so uke and I (when I am nage) aren't sitting in those "awkward" positions very long!

Re: lapel grab - Before we do katetori anything, everyone is given the chance to pull out their gi a bit so nobody grabs anything awkward. We also turn the offered shoulder out a bit to make it easier/obvious.

Re: the self-defense classes...well, I'd fall back on aiki-rei if I were you... treat those who enter and express interest with compassion and respect for their individual comfort level.
Our dojo hasn't started self-defense classes yet (will after we move, or so I'm told), but when they do begin, the instructors will be a pair-- one female 5th kyu and our chief instructor. If you have women aikidoka willing to help -- ask them!
Hope this helps,
M
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 09:11 PM   #59
dyffcult
Location: Visalia, California
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 105
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

On the matter of women and exposure....

Funny thing is, until reading this thread, I never once thought about the contact with my breasts on any technique -- it was just part of the technique. I also never considered the fact that executing a technique might "expose" myself.... then again, I always wear a man's undershirt ribbed tank (referred to as a wife-beater in some circles) under my practice gi. I don't consider exposing that to "exposing" myself . (Of course, cleavage is still there. Nothing I can do about that.)

I remember the first judo class I took when there was no aikido dojo nearby. I was actually offended when one of the female students came up and told me that my under garments were insufficient -- that the women were required to wear t-shirts under the gi..... I sputtered for a few minutes... (Of course, that was their way...as a female, I just found it obnoxious that the guys required no undershirt, and my tank was insufficient....)

If a women wears only a sports bra under her gi, she understands that her sports bra and belly may be exposed to the whole class upon certain techniques. That is her choice. I have no problem with it -- hell, I wish I had the confidence to train in just a sports bra. More power to her -- and defiantly a lot cooler. However, if this is unacceptable to the sensei and students, it is up to the students to object to the sensei and the sensei to then so instruct.

If a women wears something over her sports bra, then there should be no problem for any male student -- whether it be a tank, t-shirt or sweater. Just grab and execute the technique.

Brenda
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2005, 12:21 PM   #60
Amelia Smith
 
Amelia Smith's Avatar
Dojo: Martha's Vineyard Aikido Club
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 154
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

I've never had a problem with kokyonage pins. I mean, there's contact, and there's groping. They're totally different, as far as I'm concerned. OTOH, I sometimes have a problem with guys being too careful around my breasts (which are on the larger side). Some guys won't do the technique properly because they're afraid of accidentally brushing against my breasts... like they'll jump out and smother the poor bloke.

Sometimes, accidentally, they get elbowed in ushiro techniques. As long as it's not a really hard hit, it's no big deal, and profuse blushing and appologies can get annoying. A simple, "oops, sorry," is fine.

The only thing that really hurts is that knee-pin-pinch thing. I can avoid it most of the time by readjusting my position on the mat or by falling a little more turned-away, but sometimes that's not an option with a really strong pin. If it happens, I let the nage in question know, and he (or she) usually gets very careful after that.

I practice with a sports bra and a T-shirt. I've seen a lot of women practice with swimsuits under their gi tops, which I can't really do, comfort-wise. It never even occured to me that a forward roll could hurt one's breasts. I'm just not getting that, at all.

As for the women's self defense class, I think it would be better if there were some women instructors for it. Is there another dojo (maybe in another martial art) you could pair up with for the classes?

--Amelia
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2005, 07:29 PM   #61
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 819
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

I, agree, the pin when you do seated kokyu-ho can be a pin uncomfortable with men. I've noticed the same thing Amelia just pointed out, they're afraid to do the pin. Sometimes I even accidently graze my female partners breast. Acknowledging and appreciating their concern, I just tell them to pin me around the shoulder/ collar bone. And I sometimes get the knee pinch, but not that often. The standing nikkyo pin can be kindof weird, too. Just be open and listen to your female partners, even if they are junior to you when they express any discomfort. Be open and communicate your concerns.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2005, 05:48 PM   #62
Tubig
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 90
Australia
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Another technique that I noticed is for both ladies and gents.

Koshi nage... went to training last nite. Tori is probably a foot taller than me and he tried to load me. because of my height 5'6" and weight 85 kg he really needed to go low for the load. The load was too high, mid back rather than the hip. He forced the throw by using the other hand to flip me. His hand with a good dose of force went between my legs and hit the family jewels... then I got thrown. I was a bit teary when I hit the mat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 09:23 AM   #63
John Boswell
 
John Boswell's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote:

It is just breasts. I think it bothers the guy way more than it bothers me.

That's just it: it does. A common theme I'm seeing on this thread is that "groping" is unacceptable, but thankfully is VERY rarely seen on the mat. And that's for a reason: we're there to train. HOWEVER, though you may not feel or have any attention on an accidental brushing... we're guys. We DID notice it, it has now taken ALL of our attention and something needs to happen right now to move past it. Yes, the guy should apologize and move on, but often times will be flustered (especially younger guys/teenagers). I would recommend the ladies grab the guy, tell him to "blow it off" or "forget it" or say "it's nothing" and then move on to the next attack or technique.

No matter how much of an accident the "brushing" might be, Yes... we did notice, are sorry for it and are trying to avoid it. Until we get to higher levels and years of practice and are comfortable training with women, we will always be being careful of that subject. (We being the majority of men. )


3) Women's self defense classes -

What do you know about women's SD?......It is a lot more than a few techniques.
I am asking this respectfully. I think it is a great idea...I am just wondering if you have any ideas about it yourself.

What do "I" know about SD classes? Uh... just about nothin'! I imagine myself taking a lot of ukemi for such a class so that's why I have these concerns and worries. I will check out your website.

If you like you can check out my website for some ideas....just follow the link from BHA. It is under my name in instructors.
Mary
Another common theme I've picked up on is "pinching" from grab attacks or pins. I've found one solution to this is UnderArmor http://www.underarmour.com/Default.cfm . This stuff is great! Helps prevent pinching, grabing chest hair, keeps everything "in place" (I've got love handles that vanish with this shirt on ) and helps keep you cool or warm depending on which gear you get. This and similar products are very good for the pinching and grabbing that can hurt.

Thanks again for all the feedback! I've learned a lot about training with women here. I can be "professsional" on the mat, but I don't want to offend by accident. If an accident is not offensive, then I'll more than likely just ignore "brushes" and just move on with training instead of stopping to apologize all the time. This is all good to information to have... thanks!

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 12:14 PM   #64
Mary Eastland
 
Mary Eastland's Avatar
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,156
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Thank for the feedback,,,,,John. I never thought about helping the guy feel more comfortable about hitting my breasts. Most of the time I really just keep training.....what a great way to take someone's balance...hee hee. I just did not know it effects guys that way.
Mary
P.S.
If you have specific questions about WSD...feel free to e-mail me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 03:33 PM   #65
John Boswell
 
John Boswell's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote:
Thank for the feedback,,,,,John. I never thought about helping the guy feel more comfortable about hitting my breasts. Most of the time I really just keep training.....what a great way to take someone's balance...hee hee. I just did not know it effects guys that way.
Mary
P.S.
If you have specific questions about WSD...feel free to e-mail me.
Well, like I said... MOST guys! And seriously, as much as women need to be aware, know about defending themselves and all that goes with THAT... guys need to be able to know how not to offend a woman, how to fix it when they do and to be aware, when it comes to martial arts, what their partner may or may not be thinking.

Take someone's balance? It would be a funny atemi, but I bet you dollars to doughnuts you would find me jumping back and landing on my backside to avoid such a situation. What can I say? My wife has me whipped. Not that I'm complaining, mind you.

PS: Women are especially intimidating when they are married to your 4th dan instructor. That's the LAST person in the world you want to "offend."

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 06:47 PM   #66
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Interesting timing for this thread as I was going to start one similar to it.

I've been off the mat for a while due to a combination of my shoulder, knee and just a general "maybe I'm done with it all" kind of thought process. I've also recently moved. Well, anyways, for whatever reason I felt like being in a dojo last night. Beats a bar, right? Even if I didn't practice I've always found dojos to be mellowing places and since I've been around enough, and knew the instructor, I figured I just go wander into the dojo and watch a class. They were a very welcoming and nice group by the way.

Upon arrival I was struck by something I've seen in so many places without a strong female instructor: no female students (in this case) or few female students. Now one visit does not a "real" study make (maybe they all skipped class that night) but it got me thinking about other arts. I've always seen women in TKD dojos. A Capoeira group I saw, which had amazing gymnastics was well populated with women. One dojo I was part of was adjacent to a TKD place that had lots of young women but they never made it to our dojo 200 feet away.

Adding to that, I have a co-worker who signed up for a Karate class recently but had no interest in Aikido after viewing a clip of Hiroshi Ikeda. "So, Hiroshi is uninteresting but stupid Karate tricks (my extrapolation of some of her comments) were ok?" Her Karate class was all women by the way. Flabbergasted, that our art of harmony was not instantly attractive, I started wondering why and so began my 5-minute informal study.

I hunted down a video clip that would be deemed exceptionally mellow by folks in these parts. The clip has several women in it. I then called together three female co-workers in their early 20's to early 40's. All of them fit, and two of them work out regularly. They looked at the clip with the exact same reactions; it looks boring; it looks like work; it looks like I'd get hurt and what kind of nut (me) asks these questions. One of them explained that she preferred cardio kickboxing because there was music, it was fun, and she could just move. If only we could get aikidoists to just move…..

Take it for what it's worth.

Last edited by Erik : 08-02-2005 at 06:51 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 06:49 PM   #67
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
This stuff is great! Helps prevent pinching, grabing chest hair
As a fellow with plenty of chest hair I've thought those were a great idea, although, I've never used one.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2005, 06:13 AM   #68
Meggy Gurova
Dojo: Chowa
Location: Sofia
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 50
Bulgaria
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Yesterday we were training kubi shime techniques in my new dojo. The main teacher was teaching the class and I was training with one of the other instructors. For the first time I experienced sexual harassment. Everybody in the club was holding kubi shime without choking And this person I was training with was holding even feather down (on top of my chest) and he was squeezing my body to his chest, which was very unpleasant. When I trained the other kubi shime techniques with the other guys even thou they were holding me very close and strong I didn't experience the same unpleasant feeling. I didn't say anything, maybe that's his way of holding and maybe he holds the guys the same way. I'll definitely confront him if he does the same approach on another technique.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 01:38 AM   #69
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
But in the reverse, women (well, this woman at least) tend to go way too hard on the guys thinking that they can't hurt a man. It was a big lesson for me to learn that, "yes, I can hurt a man, even a big guy." How many guys here have taken really hard nikkyos or kotegaeshi from a women and then they expect you to go "easy" on them? I think part of this mind set is that I can't hurt you but I know you can hurt me.
Many people already commented on this one. This was a new angle on the subject for me. I have been thinking like this, when I meet these women: part of the reason is due to the fact that these women's partners continue to go soft on them while they themselves go hard. Part of it might be, it is difficult to admit a woman is hurting him physically.

A kitten learns to keep his claws in because the other baby kittens have claws too. If a guy is a bit too rough on you, you are likely to do the same to show him how it feels... but in some environments, a "lady" will never experience this. The first time these women meet a woman who does technique on them without extra concern, they sometimes get reallly angry. I'd say it is not only their fault; they have not been given adequate feedback.

Quote:
Scott Gledden wrote:
I once had a female student come to me after class to ask that I be careful & not kneel on her breast when doing submissions. I appologised for it happening and told her that to my knee her breast felt no different than the mat & that she should work on ways of taking Ukemi in a way that her breasts were protected & suggested that she talk this over with the Dojo's senior female student.
I said that if I knew that I was doing it that I would make adjustments but ultimately she was responsible for the protection of her body. I explained that I don't see gender on the mat & that she was just someone trying to hit me & I respond accordingly.
How I disagree! Yes, it is difficult to feel if the knee is on the breast or just on the mat (when flat on my belly, the breast gets flattened and pushed to the side). If you were doing sparring (in an art where they do this) I do think you would take care not to kick or hit the other guy's crotch - actually, it would be in the rules since the rules assume that most people in the dojo have testicles, that can not take much. Why should not hurting breasts be any different? OK the testicles are more sensitive, but still to most women the breasts are more sensitive than most parts of their body. We should realise this varies a lot from woman to woman though (and not mainly because of size).

Trying to keep track of not hurting the breast is no more different than trying not to hurt people's joints. Some have very tender joints, and you need to go easy on them... and the only way to know who this applies to, is to remember "I need to go easy on Peter's joints". Going easy on someones breasts shouldn't be more difficult to remember. Yes, sometimes a pin can not be performed with the same speed. I see no problem. There are tons on situations where we adapt training to each other's bodies. (btw, from my last teacher I was taught to sit at an angle to uke's body, like almost besides uke's head rather than at his/her side. This way you stay clear of the breast issue also. It is not the only reason why I prefer to do the pin this way, but it is a bonus)

Your student was very frank. In most cases, you take it (I learned to wrench my body away slightly early during the pin if I realised the knee was coming) and don't want to complain since you expect the male reaction to this kind of thing be either denial or, more commonly, complete overprotection.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 02:54 AM   #70
dyffcult
Location: Visalia, California
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 105
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Okay...someone help me here....

Exactly on which techniques are women finding their breasts pinned. I trained for three months in a dojo full of very high yudanshu and never once had my breasts pinned or even felt like my nage was close to pinning my breasts. Additionally, I never felt as if my nage was moving so as to avoid pinning my breasts.

So, I either I am extremely dense, or I am doing something in my ukemi that avoids this possibility. Since I am not doing it consciously, I would like to know the problem techniques so that maybe I can figure out what I am doing that others are not....and be able to share that information.

I am not being facetious. The other night, we were doing ikkyo and nikkyo techniques, and as the pin would approach, I thought to myself, is my breast out of the way....it always was. So I wonder what I am doing differently then these women who have found their breasts pinned.....However, I am doing technique/ukemi as I was taught....

Just really confused...

Brenda
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 03:23 AM   #71
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

I don't think you as uke do anything different. I think it is nage who does it differently.

The "pinch" problem appears in sitting nikkyo and sankyo pin. However, it depends on the style. If nage sits perpendicular to uke, facing straight across ukes body then one of nages knees is just below uke's armpit, and thereby at the breast (provided it is pressed out to the side when flat on the belly). If, however, nage sits more at ukes shoulder, his direction not perpendicular over ukes but at an angle, the knee is nowhere close to the breast. If you train in a dojo where this is the style, I am not surprised you have never encountered the pinch.

Maybe there also are subvarieties of the perpendicular version where you don't put your knee so close to uke's body. If so, I am not familiar with those.

Last edited by Hanna B : 08-24-2005 at 03:28 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 03:41 AM   #72
dyffcult
Location: Visalia, California
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 105
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Hanna

I am used to nage's knee being shoved into my armpit for the pin -- ikkyo, nikkyo, etc... with the other knee above my shoulder, but have never experienced a "breast pin" regardless.....and I am a double D ....

So, I can only assume that I am doing something different....or wearing something different.

Therefore, if I can avoid the breast pin...others can....

Hopefully we can figure out a mechanism that is more than uke has large breasts and nage should avoid....

Brenda
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 03:54 AM   #73
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

Possibly. Why don't you do some research to figure it out? I have severe difficulties in believing that uke can change the situation much, if so the garment issue IMO is a more likely explanation. On the other hand, maybe the folks in your dojo takes their knee in from the side rather than slightly from above...there are so many factors to consider here.

I don't buy the conclusion that if you can avoid it everyone can. We are different in a multitude of ways, size not being the only one. Maybe a C usually would have a bigger problem than a double D, regarding pain... I just don't know.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 03:59 AM   #74
dyffcult
Location: Visalia, California
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 105
United_States
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

I agree...

I was just hoping that there were set perameters that could be established so that we could figure out why it is happening....

Once we can figure out why...perhaps we can figure out how to avoid....

Brenda
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 05:34 AM   #75
Sonja2012
 
Sonja2012's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Verein Esslingen
Location: Stuttgart
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 192
Germany
Offline
Re: Lady Aikido

In our organisation we go down on the outer knee first when pinning uke as opposed to the inner knee, so I never encountered the breast-kneeling problem. The other day we actually tried the other version (going down on the outer knee first) and what can I say I had my breast knelt on Fortunately it was my husband who did it so I got my revenge later on (donīt ask....)
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Instructor got mad because I didnt fall actoman Training 192 05-02-2012 02:55 AM
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 08:31 AM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 10:10 AM
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 07:27 PM
Dilution of aikido eugene_lo General 40 02-07-2006 11:22 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:44 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate