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Old 07-27-2005, 08:08 PM   #1
Tubig
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Australia
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Lady Aikido

In the dojo we have a few ladies that practices with us.

They are not as big as us (males), and do not usually have as thick wrist as us. I noticed that techniques are smoother, less power, more angled better, and centre is low. Also they are more flexible and have to find the right angle to pin them.

We have many a great Aikido Senseis

Pat Hendrics of Iwama Ryu is amazing, technique and weapon wise I put her up there with the best.

Dr.Lee Ah Loi's book of Tomiki aiki is one of my text books in aikido. The master's technique is awesome, I could only wish to see her live in randori.

The reason I started this thread is a few months ago we had a begginer who is scared to do a forward roll. I showed her many times how to do it, and she still is very scared. Finally I asked why is she so scared. Embarrassed and blushing she said 'I am scared with doing forward rolls because I do not want to crush my breast'... I was speechless after that. I really do not have an idea how different aikido might be on the ladies.

Years ago, there was another begginer that do not like hamni handachi. Due to the nature of the technique, one standing and the other one is on their knees. I thought it was a bit immature to think that way in dojo practice, but because of that I became really conscious of the physical aspect of the technique.

I like training with ladies because of many reasons. They are usually shorter and I really have to lower my centre to affect their balance. I cannot just use typical brute power because it is not really aikido, and it really shows when one trains with ladies.

I would like to ask all the lady aikidokas on how different is their side of aikido. How different is aikido to the eyes of the lady that practices the way. Please educate us men (ladies usually do anyway in general) on how can we improve training with you. Also how do ladies deal with big thugs and gorillas on the mat. Do men have to train differently with ladies in comparison to training with other men.

Any input or stories will be appreciated. I can proudly say that I met my ex girlfriend on the mat after a few suwari wazas.

Last edited by Tubig : 07-27-2005 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 07-27-2005, 08:27 PM   #2
eyrie
 
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
I am scared with doing forward rolls because I do not want to crush my breast
*shakes head and rolls eyes*
I would have said, "Not to worry, luv, I'm sure the mat won't complain if you do".
And then watched carefully to see if she got the double entendre.

Ignatius
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Old 07-27-2005, 08:44 PM   #3
giriasis
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
I would like to ask all the lady aikidokas on how different is their side of aikido.[How different is aikido to the eyes of the lady that practices the way.
It's not really that different than a smaller man, both in height and build. I'm a larger sized woman so I'm not really petite but I'm still smaller than most men in my dojo. For the most part the only real difference is what the person brings with them to the mat whether its just a height difference or an attitude difference (including gender bias towards the opposite gender)

Quote:
Please educate us men (ladies usually do anyway in general) on how can we improve training with you.
Just train with us like you would train with anyone else. Don't treat us differently JUST BECAUSE WE ARE WOMEN. Treat us according to our skill level. Think how you would like to be treated or how you would like your sister to be treated on the mat.

Quote:
Also how do ladies deal with big thugs and gorillas on the mat.
If you mean by "thug" and "gorillas" as just big guys, I train with them. If you mean that they are pushing me around and bullying me, I first try to talk to them. If that doesn't work, I talk to other students in class to find out if the issue is with me, or with others including men. If the problem persists I talk to the sensei. But I've noticed that the "bullies" are not the big strong gorilla type guys. Those guys normally are gentle giants or big teddy bears. These gentle giants are really great to train with because they really help me do the technique to them. For the most part if someone is a bully or a tanker they tend to bully/ tank across gender lines. (By "tanker" I mean someone who purposefully tanks in their ukemi just to "prove" you can't do the technique to them. They are also called jerks.) Bullies can also be female. It's just I've trained with less women than men so I haven't experience a female bully.

Quote:
Do men have to train differently with ladies in comparison to training with other men.
No, they don't have to train differently, just take into consideration their size and aikido ability.


Once the guys know I can take the ukemi I've noticed that they throw me they way the do with anyone else. But in the reverse, women (well, this woman at least) tend to go way too hard on the guys thinking that they can't hurt a man. It was a big lesson for me to learn that, "yes, I can hurt a man, even a big guy." How many guys here have taken really hard nikkyos or kotegaeshi from a women and then they expect you to go "easy" on them? I think part of this mind set is that I can't hurt you but I know you can hurt me.

And regarding the ukemi, unless she is really large she shouldn't have problem with injuring her breasts. If she would like to talk to other women, and not to women AND men send her my link found in my signature. It is pretty much like this site except some issues are discussed that would be too much information for most guys here. It's not a "feminist" site, but just a "women's site" where women get together and talk about aikido and a little bit about our lives.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 07-27-2005, 10:13 PM   #4
Tubig
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Re: Lady Aikido

It is easy to say treat the ladies like one would treat the blokes. Throw them as hard as one throws a big thug. No need to be gentle. Coming from Australia it is considered a big taboo to hit or throw a woman as hard as one can. Especially atemis that connect. I really tried to do just as you adviced. But my sempais always say be gentle. The thing is I agree with them. Good aikido can be practiced gently. As a woman, do you really want to be thrown as hard as man would be thrown. As a woman do you get offended when one relaxes their grip or the power of their atemis?

Also another thing I want to ask you and all aikido women. I met my ex girlfriend in aikido on the mat (we would still be together if she did not move abroad). Flirting on the mat, as far as I am concerned is a taboo. A lot of ladies get turned off with aikido because it is such a close distance martial art. How did you deal with that? Thank god it has never happened in my dojo, but what is sexual harrassment on the mat?

Another issue that I noticed is Male aikidokas bringing wives and girlfriends to class. They become very protective of them. I find that I have to be extra gentle then, so not to offend the boyfriend or husband. How does one deal with that?

Last edited by Tubig : 07-27-2005 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:45 PM   #5
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
It is easy to say treat the ladies like one would treat the blokes. Throw them as hard as one throws a big thug. No need to be gentle. Coming from Australia it is considered a big taboo to hit or throw a woman as hard as one can. Especially atemis that connect. I really tried to do just as you adviced. But my sempais always say be gentle. The thing is I agree with them. Good aikido can be practiced gently. As a woman, do you really want to be thrown as hard as man would be thrown. As a woman do you get offended when one relaxes their grip or the power of their atemis?
I think the point on the mat shouldn't be whether your uke is male or female, but rather how good they can take ukemi.

Good Aikido can definately be practiced gently. I think the time to practice it gently depends on who you are working with and what you are focused on, not what their gender is.

Anne Marie's point about women not realizing that they can hurt men is well taken as well. It's a mental leap in alot of cultures I guess...but it shouldn't be a mental leap within a martial art.

This also applies to beginners who don't realize that the pin that they've just been shown is really effective and try and rip your arm off <sigh>

Perhaps the reverse is also true in that men don't realize that they can be hurt/pushed/controlled by women (or beginners ). In the last few years of teaching I have had some men comment on the fact that they were surprised that some slight Japanese female was strong in their Aikido.

My few yen,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:49 PM   #6
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
Another issue that I noticed is Male aikidokas bringing wives and girlfriends to class. They become very protective of them. I find that I have to be extra gentle then, so not to offend the boyfriend or husband. How does one deal with that?
I have never experienced this, but I can see how it might be the case. I can remember one time when someone brought their 5 year-old to watch and he went ballistic when his mom was getting beat up

I guess the best thing to do would be to talk with them to figure out what they brought them to train for if the issue came up. Seems kind of silly, though...but then again, when is human nature not

--Michael

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Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:53 PM   #7
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
A lot of ladies get turned off with aikido because it is such a close distance martial art. How did you deal with that?
I hadn't heard about women getting turned off with the close distance thing. Has this actually been stated alot or is it a general impression that you have picked up? Anyone else find this?

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-28-2005, 12:37 AM   #8
eyrie
 
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Re: Lady Aikido

Nah.... it's not gender specific....I have a problem getting anyone (male or female) to stick their hip or butt into uke's crutch for koshi nage.

Ignatius
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Old 07-28-2005, 12:39 AM   #9
eyrie
 
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
Coming from Australia it is considered a big taboo to hit or throw a woman as hard as one can.
Interesting observation. Doesn't seem to reduce the incidence of domestic violence....

Ignatius
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Old 07-28-2005, 01:04 AM   #10
Tubig
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Re: Lady Aikido

Sad isn't it eyrie. Imagine if a wife basher gets caught in the streets of Sydney on the act of hitting the woman. He will be finished on the spot by the citizens mate. and youre right about koshinage. I had noticed that as well in class. It sort of border lining on cricket or not cricket if you know what I mean mate.

Michael I had a talk to some women that gave aikido a go and then left. One of the biggest reasons is they felt like it is too close for comfort. Some even gave me the example why there are a lot of women doing karate and taekwondo is because of the distance. My answer to that is why are there many women doing judo? The distance is more closed than aiki. I still think aiki is one of the best martial art for women because it does not depend alone on strength and size.
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Old 07-28-2005, 01:08 AM   #11
Sonja2012
 
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Re: Lady Aikido

<gets the can opener> Worms, anyone?

Where shall I start? So many good questions and suggestions plus this issue used to be my favourite excuse for ranting about womenīs problems on the mat. Ok, here it goes:

As some people have already suggested: when facing a new partner in practice we should have our senses open towards the skills and abilities of that person, work as hard or gentle as their ukemi is up to and generally just shut up and train Doesnīt matter if male or female, this applies to *all* training partners, both genders and all ages. IMHO there is no "male" or "female" aikido, there are only lots and lots of people, all doing what they can, all having their personal little weaknesses, all trying to do their best. Each and every one of us has these weaknesses as well as certain strengths.
Equally we should try and take our partners seriously, not patronise or belittle them, and instead practice humbleness ourselves.
If this is followed I doubt that there will be any problem practicing with any man or woman.

Having said that, there may be certain issues to which women (and possibly men as well, I guess) with a history of abuse are sensitive, kneeling in front of man who is attacking them may be one of them. Even if it is a mere practice situation, it may trigger memories or whatever. At the same time, even though the (regular) dojo is a place where people mean well and take care of each other, it is not a place of therapy. IMO it would be too much to expect from and to ask for from the regular person on the mat without any experience in that kind of stuff/therapy in general to deal with these issues. So,what would be the best way of dealing with something like that? Any experiences anyone?

I havenīt heard a woman be afraid of hurting her breats during mae ukemi before (how exactly does she roll? my mind boggles ). But as women usually have less strength in their upper arms, they (we ) find it harder in the beginning to support ourselves during mae ukemi. One of the few disadvantages that I believe we *do* have, even though I have seen blokes with the same problem.

I have never really seen or experienced sexual harrassment on the mat, only guys trying to prove themselves to me. Lately I have found that I am less and less sensitive to that. Probably because a) I have noticed that they donīt only do that to me or other women but also to ther guys and b) my technique has improved to a point where I can stop a lot of that bullying (most of these guys seem to be lower kyu grades).

Quote:
Another issue that I noticed is Male aikidokas bringing wives and girlfriends to class. They become very protective of them.
Well, my husband and I started aikido together (though he was the one who got me into it) and I really canīt say that he is protective of me We are each others favourite uke and love to throw each other around quite hard.

Oh, and on another note, some people seem to think that women like to train gentle. Well, I am sure some do (like I am sure there are guys who would rather not breakfall - I have met some myself), but there are also women who like to train hard, breakfall and like to meet their limits in practice. Which comes back to what Anne Marie said and what I wrote in the beginning: Donīt treat us differently. Or rather: everybody is different, not just women (if that makes sense).

Sorry for the long mail,
<closes can and puts it in the fridge for future use> ,
best regards,
Sonja
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:01 AM   #12
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
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Re: Lady Aikido

Sorry, but I always get annoyed by the "gender training problems" threads - I've only ever found there to be two types of training partners, those who turn up and truly want to train to the limit of their ability and those who just seem to turn up anyway.

I haven't noticed any split between these two on the lines of gender, the "boys" seem quite as happy to whine over vigorous training as the "girls" (just with different excuses/reasons) so I just have the two groups split in my mind into "partners" and "squeakys".

If you have a problem with training with the opposite sex, it's your problem not the dojos and you should deal with it - whether it's cultural imperatives or religious dogma. We've had loads of threads covering how the dojo is different and how different manners/etiquette should apply, but I'd much prefer the dojo to at least adhere to one major difference - "there's no sex on the mat".
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:23 AM   #13
xuzen
 
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Re: Lady Aikido

Yoshin-Orges and Yoshin-Orclettes look the same, smell the same and speak with the same tone. Some other species has concluded that us Orges have no female and that Orges are born straight out from the rocks. (In case you have not notice, the quote was in parody of what Gimli said to Eowyn in Lord of the Rings: The Twin Tower).

No, in my dojo... the issue of gender is not prominent. And it has never occur to me that the female gender of our species need special gentler attention. But then I will ask a fellow Yoshin-Orlettes next time I meet her in class about this issue.

Boon, the Yoshin-Orge.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 07-28-2005, 04:43 AM   #14
Dazzler
Dojo: Templegate Dojo, bristol & Bristol North Aikido Dojo
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:

Another issue that I noticed is Male aikidokas bringing wives and girlfriends to class. They become very protective of them. I find that I have to be extra gentle then, so not to offend the boyfriend or husband. How does one deal with that?
Seen this and had to deal with some problems caused by it.

I have severals 'pairs' of students in class and generally there are no problems. Sometimes they are 'extra competitive' but they do nothing that disrupts the learning experience of the other students.

Where there is a large skill gap this 'buddying' is very useful...the beginner gets extra 'looking after' until they are at a level where they are self-sufficient and just part of the larger student body.

However....

As soon as something occurs which has a negative impact on the rest of the class then as an instructor you need to deal with it.

Everyone else is there for the Aikido...they don't want to watch canoodling (nice word...) so if something occurs that is making others uncomfortable then it needs to be sorted. Obviously how it is sorted depends on the personalities involved.

A more serious example I experienced was with a very large senior kyu grade who started a relationship with a begginer.

Generally this wasn't a problem, however, on one occasion at the close of class he very aggressively and rudely interjected in the training of his girlfriend and a smaller student and split them up because he wanted to train with his girlfriend.

The look on the face of the 3rd party spoke volumes for how this act was considered.

I found this action completely unacceptable and spoke to the boyfriend about it immediately after class.

His response was that he would choose who he trained with.

Mine was that this was fine ....but not in my class. Train with whom you like elsewhere.

Shortly after this he was asked to leave the dojo for an unrelated reason so I have no idea if he appreciated why I felt it necessary to speak to him or not.

I don't even think he understood that I was telling him not to come back.

Rather sad really.

D
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Old 07-28-2005, 09:30 AM   #15
giriasis
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
It is easy to say treat the ladies like one would treat the blokes. Throw them as hard as one throws a big thug. No need to be gentle. Coming from Australia it is considered a big taboo to hit or throw a woman as hard as one can. Especially atemis that connect. I really tried to do just as you adviced. But my sempais always say be gentle. The thing is I agree with them. Good aikido can be practiced gently.
Please go back and re-read what I wrote. I did NOT say throw them as hard as big bloke. I SAID throw them according to their skill level. But to be able to learn to do that you need to learn to be sensitive to the center of a smaller person. I have discovered that the "big blokes" tend to not have the sensitivity to someone smaller but the "gentle giants" do. Less physical mass means a smaller center. It doesn't necessary mean a weak center though. Train to learn to connect with their center then use their energy to throw them. Yes, if you just plow through someone smaller than you you're just plowing through them. Effective, yes. Good Aikido technique maybe not. Maybe this is what your sempai are trying to communicate to you. For you to have to have good aikido you need to learn to train gently, but train gently with even the guys smaller than you. Find their center, their energy and use ONLY THAT.

Quote:
As a woman, do you really want to be thrown as hard as man would be thrown. As a woman do you get offended when one relaxes their grip or the power of their atemis?
I joined aikido to learn a martial art so I can learn to defend myself against what I consider a threat -- men who are stronger and/ or bigger than me. Yes, I get offended if you treat me like a defenseless waif. I will continue to feel and be defenseless if I only trained that way with the men in my dojo pulling their attacks and throws.

But once again you attack and throw according to your partner's skill level. Yes, a newbie is not going to know how to hand a strong grip, but this female lady with 6 years of aikido experience and ranked 2nd kyu can. And I definently know that the many dan ranked women in my dojo and surrounding South Florida area can handle it, too -- Wee Wow Dumlao and Penny Bernath both come to mind, and they are no shrinking violets and they are definently not defenseless waifs.

As a woman I want to be thrown to the limits of my skill level. That might mean you throwing me at only 60% of your abilities, rather than the 80-100% that you do with the "big blokes". But if you only throw me at 10-20% don't be surprised if I push you to throw me harder. If we became real good train partners I would trust you to help me push my limits and have you throw me at 65-70%.

Quote:
Also another thing I want to ask you and all aikido women. I met my ex girlfriend in aikido on the mat (we would still be together if she did not move abroad). Flirting on the mat, as far as I am concerned is a taboo.
Yeah, this can be annoying especially for newer woman. They end up feeling like meat at times. I'm fine with meeting someone on the mat but keep the flirting for after class and off the mat.

Quote:
A lot of ladies get turned off with aikido because it is such a close distance martial art. How did you deal with that? Thank god it has never happened in my dojo, but what is sexual harrassment on the mat?
Some do have an issue with the closeness of it and others don't. I've seen newbie guys get real nervous when I'm getting ready to throw them in koshinage. So I don't think it's just a female thing either. Just perhaps a different situation. The closeness "issue" was never really and issue for me, but I also grew up with too older brothers. Sexual harassment is not the accidental graze of the breast (for ladies) or the groin (for gentlemen) but the intentional grabbing of body parts (i.e. some moron fool grabbing and squeezing my breast during seated kokyuho who doesn't train at our dojo anymore).

Quote:
Another issue that I noticed is Male aikidokas bringing wives and girlfriends to class. They become very protective of them. I find that I have to be extra gentle then, so not to offend the boyfriend or husband. How does one deal with that?
This really is more of an issue for a boyfriend or husband rather than just you, assuming your trainging with them appropriately. If you are doing what your supposed to do in class with your training partners then you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

But in the end, it sounds like you need to develop sensitivity to your smaller training partners. Yes, you learn to do this by being "gentle" but think about it more as trying to connect your center to theirs, correctly taking their balance, lead them to where you want them to go rather than forcing them there with your own strength, stay relaxed (don't let the tension build up in your arms and shoulders) and keep a good extension. You know practice good sound aikido. Don't think about your partner being female but rather as a partner who is shorter, smaller in stature and build, has a smaller center and is not as physically as strong as you. I have trained with guys who meet these elements and I have trained with women who are rather strong and are a bigger build. Try to feel if you are dragging them around or moving them with aikido principles. Think if they were bigger and stronger than me would the way I'm doing this technique work?

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 07-28-2005, 11:34 AM   #16
aikigirl10
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Re: Lady Aikido

Bottom line, All women are different. some women might just be those damsels in distress who really do have to be practiced with in a gentle way. But this is just a STEREOTYPE . Just because most women are not as strong as men , does not mean all women are.

Me personally, I want to be thrown just as hard as the next person (male or female) because i know i have good ukemi, And i thank my sensei for doing so. Of course you dont throw a beginner as hard, but this applies no matter the gender.

Im not scared of any man out there. I dont care who you are. Im not saying im stronger or better or faster or anything. I'm saying is that of course i can be intimidated by higher ranks and stuff but never scared. In shaolin , i have sparred with grown men and won and i have seen other women do it too. (man , does that piss them off)

The point of me posting this is not to attack men, but to explain to men the stereotypes that are generally put upon women so that men can work on not doing this.

-Paige
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Old 07-28-2005, 11:54 AM   #17
cck
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
Once the guys know I can take the ukemi I've noticed that they throw me they way the do with anyone else. But in the reverse, women (well, this woman at least) tend to go way too hard on the guys thinking that they can't hurt a man. It was a big lesson for me to learn that, "yes, I can hurt a man, even a big guy." How many guys here have taken really hard nikkyos or kotegaeshi from a women and then they expect you to go "easy" on them? I think part of this mind set is that I can't hurt you but I know you can hurt me.
That struck a chord - I am short, and pretty much always train with someone bigger than me. I get stuck by trying to force my will on uke (and fat lot of good that does me, too), instead of working with what I've got in terms of already being lower to the ground. I guess maybe my perception of me as small makes me try to compensate by being strong - which, of course, is utterly irrelevant. I am time and again reminded that size is deceptive, especially when you are training in motion (as opposed to static). This to my mind has nothing to do with gender, but rather with inexperience. The level of training will always override whatever effect gender has.
On the nature of training, I personally prefer classes that are more physical rather than "intellectual" in nature, and working with the big 'uns who could just toss me around forces attention to ukemi. I do sometimes feel fragile, but it depends who I'm working with. Funny, isn't it, how you subconsciously pick up on stuff like that? "Boy, this tosser has it in for me, better get on my toes".
Anyway, no, don't train differently with gals just because they are gals, that would be really silly - and, I would imagine, most would definitely not appreciate it. And it makes training difficult. I can sometimes feel how a bigger/stronger nage (who doesn't know me) restrains himself, resulting in an uncommitted attack that makes for shaky execution of the technique.
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Old 07-28-2005, 01:36 PM   #18
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Lady Aikido

[quote=Cromwell Salvatera]In the dojo we have a few ladies that practices with us.

They are not as big as us (males), "
You should drop by our dojo.

lol
Mary
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Old 07-28-2005, 02:26 PM   #19
Bronson
 
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
The point of me posting this is not to attack men, but to explain to men the stereotypes that are generally put upon women so that men can work on not doing this.
I've noticed also that many of these stereotypes are put upon women by other women. Sometimes sensei will show something, ask if there are any questions, and some of the women in class will ask to see a variant because "women don't want to do that" or "women don't want take that fall". I just think to myself "well, not after hearing you say that they don't".

Just something I've noticed.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 07-28-2005, 04:53 PM   #20
Meggy Gurova
Dojo: Chowa
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Re: Lady Aikido

[quote=Sonja McGough
I have never really seen or experienced sexual harrassment on the mat, only guys trying to prove themselves to me. Lately I have found that I am less and less sensitive to that. Probably because a) I have noticed that they donīt only do that to me or other women but also to ther guys and b) my technique has improved to a point where I can stop a lot of that bullying (most of these guys seem to be lower kyu grades).
[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you.
There is one thing that many women I've met agree with and it is that most of the guys first when they grab womens wrists they don't use any power at all, and we can not do our techniques because of this loose attack, so we ask the guys to hold with more power and when they do so , then they use ALL the power they have so almost as if they wonted to crash our bones. And then we wondered why the guys can not hold just with normal power . Why is it always ALL or NOTHING? (That is usually done by the new guys.)
Then I've noticed that some women use a T-shirt under their gi. Personally I don't feel comfortable using T-shirt. So the only time I feel that I'm a woman is then i lean forward, I try to make sure that my gi is properly closed
Then there is the ikkyu pin. In some dojos they teach you that nage has to have the knee very close to ukes armpit. So as uke sometimes when I lay with my face down my breasts squeeze that way and sometimes I get a knee on top of them. So as a woman I try to think of that when I train with other women (not to put my knee very close to their armpit), but I don't think guys are aware of that
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:21 PM   #21
Aikiscott
Dojo: Central Coast Aikikai
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Re: Lady Aikido

Being an X-skinhead I know that the female of the species can be just as hard as the male. the only real pounding I recieved in 2 years of brawling was 3 fractured ribs from a rather nasty bootgirl.I no longer harbour any doubts that when the heat is on a woman/girl can & will inflict as much damage as most men if not more.

In the dojo I treat all my training partners male or female the same and that is based on their abilities in Ukemi. if their ukemi is weak then I take it easy if they have good ukemi skills then I go a little harder & so on up the scale. The only other consideration is for any known injuries. If a female student trains with me with a high/low level of Ukemi then she would be treated the same as a man of equal skill and I think that is appreciated by the females in our Dojo.

I once had a female student come to me after class to ask that I be careful & not kneel on her breast when doing submissions. I appologised for it happening and told her that to my knee her breast felt no different than the mat & that she should work on ways of taking Ukemi in a way that her breasts were protected & suggested that she talk this over with the Dojo's senior female student.
I said that if I knew that I was doing it that I would make adjustments but ultimately she was responsible for the protection of her body. I explained that I don't see gender on the mat & that she was just someone trying to hit me & I respond accordingly.
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:28 PM   #22
Janet Rosen
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
some of the women in class will ask to see a variant because "women don't want to do that" or "women don't want take that fall". I just think to myself "well, not after hearing you say that they don't".
Wow. Bronson, I sure can't deny what you have heard or seen in your own dojo, but I gotta say in the 3 dojos I've been a member of and in the dozen or more I've visited over the yrs, I've never ever heard anything remotely like that.
Wow. I'd be pretty p.o.'d to hear it, too!

Janet Rosen
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Old 07-28-2005, 07:02 PM   #23
Qatana
 
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Re: Lady Aikido

The only time I ever sak to see a variation is if the demo uke takes it upon themself to take a breakfall, which I am still "practicing" from 6 inches off the ground.
And a knee on the boob is as effective a pin as any other. Considering that the only time I've ever been attacked it was by another woman, it could very well have come in handy.

Q
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Old 07-28-2005, 08:48 PM   #24
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
Location: California
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Re: Lady Aikido

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
I've noticed also that many of these stereotypes are put upon women by other women. ....some of the women in class will ask to see a variant because "women don't want to do that" or "women don't want take that fall".
Unlike Janet, I have seen a (one, single, individual) woman act like that. Not only did she leave our dojo because she felt that she was being thrown too hard, but she had the gall to call our dojo-cho 'sexist' for not being softer on her. She was an ikkyu, for goodness' sake, and was talking about preparing for a shodan exam. Her comments did not go over well at all with the other women at the dojo - not only because we disagreed with her, but because she had presumed to speak for all women, everywhere, without checking with anyone else first.

Thus I would add to Anne Marie's comments about throwing women based on their ability, that their ability should be proportional to their rank. I don't think you should have to throw a healthy, 25-year old female ikkyu more softly than you throw a healthy, 25-year old male 4th kyu.

-LK
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Old 07-28-2005, 10:26 PM   #25
Tubig
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Re: Lady Aikido

Thank for the response ladies. My intention for the thread is to find out and see through women's eyes on how different or similar aikido training is; a good example is Meg's post. I was not aware of the ikyo pin with the breast thing. Now I will keep in mind. This is not a gender debate. Even though men and women are created equal. Men and women are not the same.

Keep on posting ladies. Educate us men.

and for the blokes, if you have any insights or stories on the mat about the ladies please share it mate.

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