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Old 07-25-2005, 02:04 PM   #1
Huker
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Pending Legislation in Canada

Imagine you weren't allowed to practice aikido in Canada anymore. You might want to check this out.

http://www.mixedmartialartsexpo.com/

Have a look at the page and check out the pdf files on there. This is pretty important.
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:18 PM   #2
Kevin Temple
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

the way it looks to me, its not so much banning the practise of Aikido so much as martial arts tournaments... the Aikido we engage in while learning/teaching doesn't seem to be an organized encounter previously agreed upon so much as an incidental encounter for the purpose of trying out one or a few specific techniques. I'd say that our training could not be mistaken for prizefighting in any way, although any aikido styles which incorporated tournaments could be affected.
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:41 PM   #3
Huker
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

I can understand how aikido might be able to dodge the bullet. But, the practice of techniques is easy to mistake for sparring, and it isn't a big stride away from what is being proposed. Could be the first step to something bigger.

On top of that, Martial Arts should in no way be limited by anyone, except to the extent of preventing blatantly unsafe practice. This legislation is not good for any martial artist. Diversity is something that Canada is (or claims to be) proud of. Can we still say that if only certain martial arts are allowed?

Also, keep in mind that the martial arts of Judo, Muay Thai, and Karate will only avoid the legislation if it is reviewed and altered.

We can't shake this off as nothing. This is going to affect the martial arts community in a big way and will give a foothold to those bas****s for future "developments".
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:42 PM   #4
Kevin Temple
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Yeah, even if we can dodge the bullet, we have to stand by our more competitive martial arts brethren.....

Last edited by Kevin Temple : 07-25-2005 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:48 PM   #5
Huker
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Prize Fight (according to the pdf):

"an encounter or fight with fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by previous arrangement made by or for them..."

Does technique practice constitute an "encounter"? Are weekly meetings a "previous arrangement"? We definitely meet to practice the techniques, so we may or may not be included in the legislation. Also, if other aikido dojos are representative of the martial art and they do spar, then our aikido may be put to rest.
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:57 PM   #6
Nick P.
 
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Hmmmm.
This is troubling.
I plan to print up the petition and have as many signatures as I can and send them off, whether or not I feel this might affect Aikido in particular or MAs in general (which I suspect it wont, but better safe than sorry).

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Old 07-25-2005, 02:59 PM   #7
Huker
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Cool. Thanks. I think it says somewhere on there that you need 25 signatures minimum. I'm trying to get a few of my MA friends to do the same thing at their dojos.
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Old 07-25-2005, 08:02 PM   #8
Roy
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

From what I understand from here in Victoria is this, the legislation is only concerned with "Ultimate Fighting," or "King of the Ring," type stuff
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:24 AM   #9
Nick Simpson
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

' It's aboot freedom of expression! '

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 07-26-2005, 05:58 AM   #10
Dyusan
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

First it was guns then it was knives and now its about martial disciplines. When you can't protect yourself the government can do what they please. They won't stop with this.

Gary Chase
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Old 07-26-2005, 06:52 AM   #11
rob_liberti
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Are you sure this is not a hoax? I've seen a lot of 'we are going to start billing you for emails' type things that looked pretty official (but had to be fake of course). Otherwise, are we going to have a load of martial artists move to the States?

Rob
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Old 07-26-2005, 07:27 AM   #12
ajbarron
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Interesting !!!! I'm sure there are many bills that we are not aware of ,that could/would affect other domains, that die on the floor of the Parliament and this could be one.

But what would we do if it did pass? Warning, Warning do not read on if you might take offense !!!

Aikido could simply follow the path of Caporia which hid it's martial practice from the slave owners by being viewed as a cultural dance activity of the African workers.

Aikido is optimally suited to this guise as to the uninitiated it does look like dance. At least that what my yoga practicing son keeps telling me over and over and over. He even gave me a present of video clips of aikido edited together to the sound track of Waltzing Matilda.

In any case I'll sign the petition as a good Canadian and go back to dance class.

Cheers

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We offer a introductory special which includes uniform. Sign up today at your local Aiki-dance Studio Inc.

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Old 07-26-2005, 08:48 AM   #13
Huker
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

It doesn't really matter which martial arts it is limiting. Maybe it is just ring fighting or actual prize fighting. Either way, the practice of martial arts will become constrained. We should be concerned for the well-being of other martial arts than just aikido. Just because it may not affect us (which I think it will) doesn't mean the new legislation isn't wrong.

Capoeira? That was made, as you said, by slaves. They had to hide a cultural practice in a world where they should have had to hide nothing. Same goes for Canada. We shouldn't have to hide anything.

Dyusan, they're after our guns, too. Don't forget that.
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:00 AM   #14
James Davis
 
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
Are you sure this is not a hoax? I've seen a lot of 'we are going to start billing you for emails' type things that looked pretty official (but had to be fake of course). Otherwise, are we going to have a load of martial artists move to the States?

Rob
They would be most welcome here, but I hope that it doesn't come to that.
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:23 AM   #15
Roy
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

If you check out the mpegs/ Video clips at http://www.bullshido.com/, you will notice the new trend of goof-balls consensually fighting in parking lots etc... believe it or not there are commercial dojos doing the same shit here!?! I don't think this sort of thing should be allowed. I heard about one idiot getting hurt, and the mediocre insurance policy they had, did not pay for the medical cost. So, take a good guess who paid for it? The tax payers of Canada ofcourse! I see this as a complete waist of taxpayers dollars. Why should the tax payers waist money on knuckleheads like that. I'm not sure if this is what would happen in the US, but am I wrong in thinking that if a person gets hurt in a fight without insurance, his basically up shit creek without a paddle?
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:44 AM   #16
djalley
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Fight this tooth and nail.

Here in the US, our rights as gun owners are constantly being erroded by the Left. There are many ways they try to gain restrictions, and one of them is to outlaw ceratin calibers.

The trouble with this approach is that once the main law is in effect, it becomes a lot easier to restrict other calibers. A gang leader uses it, a hunting accident, or just some good ole Bad Press. The line gets moved. And again, and again. Eventually, all but the smallest calibers are available when someone says Just Get Rid of It All.

This would possibly be parallelled in the Martial Arts world. Outlaw prize fighting. That doesn't stop fights and tournaments on a smaller scale, so outlaw those. Eventually, some "enlightened" politician will say "If we outlaw the practice of the martial arts, then no one will WANT to prize or tournament fight!", and since the laws are on the books, a quick modification, often as a trailer on a more popular Bill, will cease them all.

Bottom line is, once you let them lay the groundwork on restricting something, you open the door on sneaking a few more things in. Then a few more....

First prize fighing, then boxing, then karate, muy thai, kung fu, and BJJ, and eventually Aikido and Tai Chi will be illegal. Dont give them the right to limit the practice AT ALL. It must be stopped at the onset.

D
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:37 PM   #17
rob_liberti
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Hmm. Seems like to solve the problems mentioned, they should simply legalize fighting in Canada but only fights to the death...

Rob
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:40 PM   #18
Roy
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Rob,

Good idea!
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Old 07-26-2005, 01:49 PM   #19
Huker
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Thanks Don. That's exactly my point. You give an inch, they take another.

Rob, I guess pi**ing off all the martial artists in your country isn't such a good idea
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Old 07-26-2005, 11:17 PM   #20
CNYMike
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
Are you sure this is not a hoax? I've seen a lot of 'we are going to start billing you for emails' type things that looked pretty official (but had to be fake of course). Otherwise, are we going to have a load of martial artists move to the States?

Rob
I've been trying to figure that out myself. Irwin Cotler is the Candian Minister of Justice and Attorney General, but I bounced all over their DoJ web site and couldn't find Section 83, much less anything about revising it.

Anyone who wants to take a stab at it, here's their page:

http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/index.html
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Old 07-27-2005, 02:18 AM   #21
Nick Simpson
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

' Rob, I guess pi**ing off all the martial artists in your country isn't such a good idea '

Yeah, cos it's so much harder to arrest a martial artist than a 'regular person'...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:20 AM   #22
Huker
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Quote:
I've been trying to figure that out myself. Irwin Cotler is the Candian Minister of Justice and Attorney General, but I bounced all over their DoJ web site and couldn't find Section 83, much less anything about revising it.
I think they make these things hard to find for a reason. Some call it the "Way of the Liberal". I'm still looking myself. I found the current section 83, and it does talk all about prize fighting and everything else. If I find the actual legislation, I'll post the URL for you.

Quote:
Yeah, cos it's so much harder to arrest a martial artist than a 'regular person'...
Yep, that's their mentality. Why else would they care?
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Old 07-28-2005, 07:50 AM   #23
rob_liberti
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

Well, I do think the group paying for stupid individuals smashing each other in parking lots is unfair to the group. There are just much bigger fish to fry (to save the group, not intending to call anyone else dependant on the group "stupid". Stupid was just meant for thinking it would be a good idea to brawl in parking lots). For just one example, look at the statistics on formula fed babies verse nursed babies in terms of the amount of health care those children end up needing as they get older. I'm not some crazy zealot on a mission mind you, just look at the numbers. (I don't have them, but they are staggering.) Maybe we should encourage mothers on well-fare to nurse before worrying about the incredibly small amount of bone heads beating the hell out of each other in parking lots due to martial arts matches.

Rob
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Old 07-28-2005, 07:52 AM   #24
Adam Huss
 
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

I just got back from a 6 month uchideshi stint in Canada, and worked with Mr. Chopik (the organizaer of the Toronto MMA Expo, and the webmaster of the website.). He sent our dojo the news article and we emailed him asking about it. He pretty much said that it won't affect Aikido whatsoever, and most percusion style tournaments as well. Its mostly geared towards full contact cage-fighting. He mentioned some rule about the thickness of the gloves they use. A friend of mine from Canada is a pro boxer so we asked about that, and he said that she will not have to worry about anything either...I guess pro-boxing's gloves are thick enough...but those UFC stlye gloves are too thin or whatever. So pro-boxing and, probabaly, point-contact sparring has nothing to fear...but for all the MMA cage fighters in Canada, there could be some trouble. However, I doubt anything applies to aikidoka.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
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Old 07-28-2005, 09:04 AM   #25
crbateman
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Re: Pending Legislation in Canada

It seems to me that, if the legislation is designed to stop a specific activity (such as the parking lot "throw downs") that it should be worded to those specifics, instead of being so vague that it may be too freely interpreted by authorities. In any event, it will only take a couple of tests in the courts before the need for a complete overhaul of the language will become evident. Or else it will simply become one of those useless laws that are unenforceable and basically ignored.

It also would seem silly that a country with nationalized medical care would altogether turn its back on the obvious physical benefits of martial arts training.
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