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Old 07-16-2005, 11:08 AM   #26
L. Camejo
 
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

Hi Dustin,

I've heard of a theory being propagated that at any one time you can only have 4 people attacking simultaneously (one from each side of your body and front and back) without running the risk of hitting each other or getting in each other's way, hence if one can handle four simultaneous attackers one can theoretically handle any amount. Of course this is just theory.

I also agree with the point about your Sensei not having to personally take down each and every single attacker (which is just a silly waste of energy imo). To me, this approach often comes from a very limited view of multiple attacker tactics that tends to come from those accustomed with the one-on-one only fighting systems and scenarios. My Judo, Karate and TKD students tend most to have this problem of trying to engage and deal with each attacker personally aand getting crowded instead of utilising timing, kuzushi, positioning, attack rhythm, space and your attackers' bodies as shields or projectiles against each other.

In my own 8 person mugging situation all I had to do (luckily) to keep the group in check was to fully off balance and control the initiator and use him as an effective shield/projectile for my own defence. In the end his pals did more damage to him than I did.

Quote:
Kevin, I agree completely, there ain't no holy grail. But I do believe that the more you train the more likely you are to survive when things get ugly.
I think the above quote is absolutely true. I know if not for the training I did the stuation would have been very different with me being hospitalized if lucky. This was the result for other people who got attacked that waay on that same day.

Train hard, be safe folks.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 07-19-2005, 01:46 AM   #27
Red Beetle
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

Michael Neal,

I don't think that BJJ shows weakness in multiple attacker situations.
I recently challenged a guy to fight when he came into my dojo saying the same thing. He was uneducated in BJJ, and he quickly apologized and retracted his statement. Why was I quick to challenge this guy? Because I have used BJJ in fights when I found myself outnumbered 3 to one, sometimes even more and won easily.

When several people do not know how to fight, and they decide they are going to jump you, they are still at a disadvantage if they are going up against a skilled fighter with a systematic plan. Gracie Jiu-jitsu gives you such a plan, and a realistic one at that.

Just because one guy makes a mistake in mathematics, don't rule out mathematics for that particular situation. The same holds for Jiu-jitsu. Just because one guy didn't do so hot, and it sounds like Jiu-jitsu saved his life considering he had little to no help from his friends, don't rule it out all together.

When I was attacked, I quickly threw one attacker after the next with O-goshi. Two more who were considering helping their buddies saw this and quickly backed down when I faced them. I threw the other guys a bit more, and very quickly they decided that bouncing off the ground was little fun. But wait, Red Beetle, I didn't think that throwing was Brazilian Jiu-jitsu specialty! Well, glad you brought that up, because Relson Gracie and Rorion Gracie was the guys who showed me how to engaged multiple attackers with Jiu-jitsu while standing. When I clinched one guy, I quickly shot my hips across his front and tossed him, but I tossed him toward one of his buddies, this took care of two of them leaving me one to quickly handle one on one. I literally piled them up on top of each other at one point. None of the guys were physically hurt, and I was not hurt in the exchange as well. I had a friend, also BJJ, who watched, but did not interfere. He claimed he would have helped out if "things got out of control."

If you get a chance to use Aikido on multiple attackers, then I say go to it. If they close the range, then you better know some Judo or Jiu-jitsu, or your done.

One of my friends, a purple belt under Marc Laimon, recently whipped three guys at the same time while two other guys were jumping on his buddy. It was 5 on two. He and his friend are bouncers. The three that jumped him all ended up choked out. He took care of them one at a time even though they insisted on attacking him at once. It is not hard to kick a guy when he is that close to your buddy, people forget this. His friend, on the other hand, who had only limited training in grappling, but studied Muy Thai, went to the hospital. There were over 20 witnesses, and no one offered to help. How's that for reality. When it comes down to it, even in public, you better know how to fight. Remember, like Royce Gracie says, a black belt only covers two inches of your butt, you have to cover the rest.

This is why challenge matches are good. You need to test yourself from time to time.

Red Beetle
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Old 07-19-2005, 08:53 AM   #28
Michael Neal
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
If you get a chance to use Aikido on multiple attackers, then I say go to it. If they close the range, then you better know some Judo or Jiu-jitsu, or your done.
I agree with that
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Old 07-20-2005, 02:05 PM   #29
Roy
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

I'm not so sure that the altercation described (12 to 1), shows that their is weakness in BJJ.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:27 PM   #30
Sirhoward90
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

But what if you face 4 competent attackers, who surround you and all grab and control you at the same time? I haven't been able to think of anything in jiu jitsu that accounts for that. We had a demonstration a little while back and we had a 2nd degree karate black belt volunteer to try out 3 attackers. He had said he worked on multiple attacker drills, and he was confident that 3 attackers (especially considering 2 of us weren't even 4th kyu yet) wouldn't be a problem. It took us 3 seconds to immobilize him. He tried to hip toss one of us, but by the time his technique was being executed, the other 2 had ahold of him. In a situation with more than 1 attacker. My personal opinion is that the only thing you can do to stay alive is move. Get out of there. If they chase you then try some technique, but all for the point of getting out of there. It's very easy to be killed in multiple attacker situations. Scary stuff.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:35 PM   #31
DonMagee
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

The guy telling the story lived, he fended off a attack by superior numbers with superior weaponry and he escaped.

I call that winning. He did as well, if not better then most martial artists can hope for.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:42 PM   #32
Randall Lim
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote: View Post
I want to start by saying that I practice jiu jitsu myself and think it is a very valuable martial art but this following situation definately shows its weaknesses. it was posted by a BJJ practitioner with a good amount of experience.

I also want to use this as an opportunity for more people to take my previous suggestions to heart, that Aikido would appeal to more people if a bigger effort was made to include more realistic training and randori. Its strength in these type of situations is obvious if you have done any multi attacker Aikido randori. However, Aikido training must contain these elements on a regular basis to be effective in surviving this kind of attack in my view.
In my opinion, Aikido is;

50% Philosophy & Spirituality
30% Mental Development
20% Practical Effectiveness.

Physical techniques are only a small aspect for Aikido and should never be emphasised more than it should be.

If practical effectiveness is what one is solely looking for, then Aikido is not what one should pursue. Try other Japanese martial arts which contain "Jitsu" in their names or any others.
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:38 PM   #33
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Randall Lim wrote: View Post
In my opinion, Aikido is;

50% Philosophy & Spirituality
30% Mental Development
20% Practical Effectiveness.

Physical techniques are only a small aspect for Aikido and should never be emphasised more than it should be.

If practical effectiveness is what one is solely looking for, then Aikido is not what one should pursue. Try other Japanese martial arts which contain "Jitsu" in their names or any others.
I believe what you are describing is AIKIDO TM as it's largely practiced, today. There are others that are interested in aikido as a means of the Founder's simplified version of Daito ryu, guided by his own religious principles - even as he encouraged others to find their "own" aiki-do.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:01 PM   #34
Michael Neal
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

wow, this is an old thread.

Still agree that Aikido randori is the best for this type of situation plus some striking art experience.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:38 AM   #35
Chris Evans
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

1. don't get "hit" first.
2. "hit" first, where it counts.
3. leave no trace.

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:12 AM   #36
Chris Evans
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Re: BJJ players shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Chris Evans wrote: View Post
1. don't get "hit" first.
2. "hit" first, where it counts.
3. leave no trace.
If your're ambushed then you retreat. If you can not prevent violence then defuse it, but If it must be then it must be worth fighting for (a.k.a. "self-defense") with all that you have, worth the risk of life-time of injury, disability, or death.

So, then if you must fight, "hit" hard first. If they take you down you get up. Ideally you'll have to "hit" with penetrating bullets, along with a CCW Permit, or sharp knife or a small baseball bat, or cane, etc. -- an effective weapon.

If all you have is empty hands then hit hard and break the felons' will and means of violence.

Now, try to survive the law (criminal and tort) and any revenge attacks to you or your dependents.

Aikido's sounding pretty useful, and so is Judo or Jiujitsu, but Karate (gungfu) offers techniques at the furtherest contact distance, esp. with leg or knee kicks.

There is no honor in fighting, there's only degrees of survival. But there is honor in deterring a fight through Budo preparation.

Aikido is one among an array of good Budo, assuming, you have a practical instructor and handful of advanced students that can handle pain and fear in training, just like any other Budo art.

Delusionary mindsets and practices abound, esp. among the more "educated." I must admit though, BJJ people seems to be among the most grounded (no pun intended).

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:42 AM   #37
Randall Lim
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Re: BJJ players shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Chris Evans wrote: View Post
If your're ambushed then you retreat. If you can not prevent violence then defuse it, but If it must be then it must be worth fighting for (a.k.a. "self-defense") with all that you have, worth the risk of life-time of injury, disability, or death.

So, then if you must fight, "hit" hard first. If they take you down you get up. Ideally you'll have to "hit" with penetrating bullets, along with a CCW Permit, or sharp knife or a small baseball bat, or cane, etc. -- an effective weapon.

If all you have is empty hands then hit hard and break the felons' will and means of violence.

Now, try to survive the law (criminal and tort) and any revenge attacks to you or your dependents.

Aikido's sounding pretty useful, and so is Judo or Jiujitsu, but Karate (gungfu) offers techniques at the furtherest contact distance, esp. with leg or knee kicks.

There is no honor in fighting, there's only degrees of survival. But there is honor in deterring a fight through Budo preparation.

Aikido is one among an array of good Budo, assuming, you have a practical instructor and handful of advanced students that can handle pain and fear in training, just like any other Budo art.

Delusionary mindsets and practices abound, esp. among the more "educated." I must admit though, BJJ people seems to be among the most grounded (no pun intended).
Aikido's philosophy, or any other true Budo, is to protect your enemy or leave him unharmed even while defending from his attacks.

This is of a very high calling, thus extremely difficult to achieve unless one has reached spiritual enlightenment.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:16 AM   #38
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Re: BJJ players shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Randall Lim wrote: View Post
Aikido's philosophy, or any other true Budo, is to protect your enemy or leave him unharmed even while defending from his attacks.

This is of a very high calling, thus extremely difficult to achieve unless one has reached spiritual enlightenment.
How are you preparing yourself for this very high calling?

Unless stated otherwise, all wisdom, follies, harshness, malice that may spring up from my writing are attributable only to me.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:53 AM   #39
Richard Stevens
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

It's pointless to get into the whole "this art is better than that art" debate, however, the poster does have a point in regard to training. The full force Randori BJJ and Judo practitioners do help prepare them for resistance in a real-life situation. However, this would be far more dangerous in an Aikido dojo and would certainly result in a big increase in injuries.

Judo/BJJ techniques allow you to go full-contact and know that you probably aren't going to seriously injure your training partner as long as they have good ukemi and know when to tap. Many Aikido techniques just don't lend themselves well to this kind of training. Sankyo can go from lock to spiral-break far faster than someone can tap. You would need to limit the techniques to those that are safe.

With that being said learning to move around multiple attackers moving at full speed would certainly help people in a violent encounter. Some dojos may already be doing it this way. If not it would simply be a matter of them cranking it up a notch, if that is how they wanted to train.

This topic made me think of the Randori Seagal was putting his students through in the Path Beyond Thought. Some may have found it inappropriate, but I thought it was good training. Of course I grew up with a USMC drill instructor for a father...
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:57 PM   #40
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: BJJ players shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Randall Lim wrote: View Post
Aikido's philosophy, or any other true Budo, is to protect your enemy or leave him unharmed even while defending from his attacks.

This is of a very high calling, thus extremely difficult to achieve unless one has reached spiritual enlightenment.
I am not so sure that this is aikido or budo's philosophy..that is specifically as you state...that is, to protect of leave your enemy unharmed.

I think that might be your own personal value/goal etc...but not necessarily the goal of budo.

I would agree that this is extremely difficult if not next to impossible...especially since your enemy's intent is on harming or killing you.

To me, it evokes the Koan..."Do no harm, Stop Harm".

I think that koan is well known for a reason.

For me, I think the purpose of budo is along the lines of what is talked about in the Book of Five Rings.

That is being Prepared, and doing what is necessary.

Being prepared has alot meanings. Being mentally, spiritually, and physically prepared. Having the right tools, having situational awareness...a clear mind...those kinda things.

Making the best possible decision based on the input given..

Using the appropriate amount of force....

Aikido/budo can do alot of things for us in this area...things that are acheivable in our lifetime...and things that are not near impossible to achieve such as "doing no harm...no matter what" to our enemy.

Budo can show us how to better ourselves, can teach us alot about "self" and expand our ability to see things that we may not have seen before and make better, more informed choices. It can help us be more compassionate, less angry...etc.

All those things can help us make good choices.

However, in the end...we may find that we must use force and cause harm....and that may be the right choice given the circumstances.

It does not mean we have failed at all if we use force. It may be the right choice and one that is well with in the realm and ethics of budo.

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Old 11-02-2010, 02:10 PM   #41
Chris Evans
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Exclamation Re: BJJ players shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Randall Lim wrote: View Post
Aikido's philosophy, or any other true Budo, is to protect your enemy or leave him unharmed even while defending from his attacks.

This is of a very high calling, thus extremely difficult to achieve unless one has reached spiritual enlightenment.
That could be be a dangerously idealistic when loved ones lives are in danger. That sounds like some hopeful Aikido idealism, not necessarily that of "Budo."

I say be of no mind, "mushin," and hit with doing what's safest to the innocents in stopping the felony-in-progress.

So, not fighting with your ego's paramount.

spiritual enlightenment would be see the danger and prevent or deter that violence before it happens or hit so effectively that the violent mind no longer exists.

fyi
http://jiujitsu365.wordpress.com/200...h-i-conducted/

An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it is also more nourishing.
H. L. Mencken

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:35 PM   #42
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

Chris Evans wrote:

Quote:
If your're ambushed then you retreat. If you can not prevent violence then defuse it, but If it must be then it must be worth fighting for (a.k.a. "self-defense") with all that you have, worth the risk of life-time of injury, disability, or death.
Hey Chris, Just a few comments...

In my experiences, if you are ambushed, the worse thing you can do most of the time is retreat. The default statistically should be the opposite actually...that is to "push" into the fight to regain what you lost.

Hard to explain here, but by definition, an ambush means that your opponent has "suprised" you and has the cards, so to speak. He has already accounted for your "backward" movement and moving away, simply gives him more ground to continue to bring the fight to you.

The best strategy typically is to "ACT" in someway to disrupt his pattern of attack forcing him to deal with that. When you disrupt his fight tempo/attack...then he must respond to that and abandon his plan.

Your goal is to "get ahead" of his decision cycle and force him to react to you.

Running area..giving ground, or avoiding...usually will simply put you further behind in the process. However, these are my experiences in dealing with ambushes, other's might have different ones.

As far as "diffusing violence"...that is not really your option if the fight was brought to you...you can control your actions..and indeed your actions may influence your opponents...but ultimately he makes up his own mind how he responds.

The point I guess I am trying to make is that "diffusing violence" is a conceptual/philosophical notion...and in the end when people meet in a violent situation...they make their own choices and we must keep that in mind first and foremost.

We cannot control how they respond ultimately, we can only control how we respond. If they are hell bent on hurting us, no matter how much we may ethcially feel about violence and the desire to "diffuse" it...He may not share that feeling or see/visualize or understand the situation as you see it.

So, to me...the concept of diffusion, redirecting, or resolving it peacefully may not be an option at all. That choice was one that was made by your opponent at some point when he chose to pursue a violent/lethal path.

What we must do, in line with my post above...it prepare ourselves to make sure we have done as much as we can to correctly and accurately read the situation and make a decision to commit to an action in a timely matter. This assumes, of course, that we are living right and are not the one that is acting as the "bad guy".

"making sure it is worth fighting for". I agree. a big part of budo is reaching an understanding of what our "triggers" are and what is worth fighting for. For me, if I am in a fight, it is because my opponent/enemy decided to cause harm to me. So, it really is no issue for me to ponder the use of force nor do I concern myself with the risk to myself...as that choice was made for me by my opponent and I am simply reducing the risk that he has decided to expose me to.

Quote:
There is no honor in fighting, there's only degrees of survival. But there is honor in deterring a fight through Budo preparation.
I think there is honor in fighting. That is, when you are fighting to protect. that is, fighting to protect others from harm. We need people that are willing to stand up for what is right and just in the world. We need people that have courage to stop those that intend to use force, fear and power to harm others. There is honor in that.

I agree however, that fighting or using violence simply for the sake of fighting...there is no honor or justification.

As far as deterring violence through budo and preparation. Absolutely. I am a firm believer that if we prepare ourselves and have the willingness, ability, courage, and strength to stand up to those that intend to harm us...then we can quite possibly deter violence. I really believe that. However, it is not always possible to do this as you state.

For me...as far as laws and legalities and all the technicalities that go with that. Never a concern for me. I try to live a good and decent life and do the right things. If I have to fight. I simply fight and do what I feel is necessary and appropriate at that time. I do believe as a budoka...if I live properly...then it really becomes a non-issue.

Good stuff...thanks for sharing and posting!

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Old 11-02-2010, 03:38 PM   #43
Budd
 
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

This thread highlight's the "weakness" of BJJ about as much as a falling tree shows its "weakness" to gravity
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:55 PM   #44
Chris Evans
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Thumbs up Re: BJJ PLAYER shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
This thread highlight's the "weakness" of BJJ about as much as a falling tree shows its "weakness" to gravity
This thread highlight's the "weakness" of that particular BJJ budoka and I am grateful for him sharing.

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:05 PM   #45
Chris Evans
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Evil Eyes Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Chris Evans wrote:

Hey Chris, Just a few comments...

In my experiences, if you are ambushed, the worse thing you can do most of the time is retreat. The default statistically should be the opposite actually...that is to "push" into the fight to regain what you lost.

Hard to explain here, but by definition, an ambush means that your opponent has "suprised" you and has the cards, so to speak. He has already accounted for your "backward" movement and moving away, simply gives him more ground to continue to bring the fight to you.

The best strategy typically is to "ACT" in someway to disrupt his pattern of attack forcing him to deal with that. When you disrupt his fight tempo/attack...then he must respond to that and abandon his plan.

Your goal is to "get ahead" of his decision cycle and force him to react to you.

Running area..giving ground, or avoiding...usually will simply put you further behind in the process. However, these are my experiences in dealing with ambushes, other's might have different ones.
!
In an ambush where contact's inevitable, better to fight now then to run and die tired. In an ambush of personal, non-military, nature where you have room to retreat then disappear (and prepare to be a good witness, if do-able).

All in all, I'm mostly in agreement with Kevin. My haste to post may not read as such.

A Budo teacher can only teach you some of the skillsets, but you must really teach yourself.

When you see the Budda on the Road, "Kill" It, don't follow It: Become your own Budda, learn what you may then seek your own path..

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:36 PM   #46
Chris Evans
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Thumbs up Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
The guy telling the story lived, he fended off a attack by superior numbers with superior weaponry and he escaped.

I call that winning. He did as well, if not better then most martial artists can hope for.
An excellent obseration.

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:46 PM   #47
Andrew Macdonald
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

i am kinda at a loss to see how this story shows a weakness in BJJ. what is the weakness? that he couldn;t take on more than 12 guys.

is the OP implying that aikido prepares people to do that?

at the end of the story he got away with only a couple of stab wounds to non vital parts. thats a win in my book
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:35 AM   #48
Randall Lim
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Re: BJJ players shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I am not so sure that this is aikido or budo's philosophy..that is specifically as you state...that is, to protect of leave your enemy unharmed.

I think that might be your own personal value/goal etc...but not necessarily the goal of budo.

I would agree that this is extremely difficult if not next to impossible...especially since your enemy's intent is on harming or killing you.

To me, it evokes the Koan..."Do no harm, Stop Harm".

I think that koan is well known for a reason.

For me, I think the purpose of budo is along the lines of what is talked about in the Book of Five Rings.

That is being Prepared, and doing what is necessary.

Being prepared has alot meanings. Being mentally, spiritually, and physically prepared. Having the right tools, having situational awareness...a clear mind...those kinda things.

Making the best possible decision based on the input given..

Using the appropriate amount of force....

Aikido/budo can do alot of things for us in this area...things that are acheivable in our lifetime...and things that are not near impossible to achieve such as "doing no harm...no matter what" to our enemy.

Budo can show us how to better ourselves, can teach us alot about "self" and expand our ability to see things that we may not have seen before and make better, more informed choices. It can help us be more compassionate, less angry...etc.

All those things can help us make good choices.

However, in the end...we may find that we must use force and cause harm....and that may be the right choice given the circumstances.

It does not mean we have failed at all if we use force. It may be the right choice and one that is well with in the realm and ethics of budo.
According to the book "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" by A. Westbrook & O. Ratti, on page 33 under the section entitled "The Ethics of Defence in Combat", it states that there are four levels of Ethics of defence in combat:

The lowest level of Ethics is Level 1:
Level 1: Unprovoked Tori initiates attack & kills innocent Uke.

Level 2: Unprovoked Tori provokes innocent Uke who initiates attack. Tori defends & seriously injures Uke.

Level 3: Innocent Tori receives unprovoked Uke's initiated attack.
Tori defends & seriously injures Uke.

Level 4: Innocent Tori receives unprovoked Uke's initiated attack.
Tori defends but does NOT injure Uke (through controlled technique).

Level 4 is the highest. What do you guys think??

Randall

Last edited by Randall Lim : 11-03-2010 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:44 AM   #49
Randall Lim
Dojo: Tendoryu Aikido Singapore
Location: Singapore
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 94
Singapore
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Re: BJJ players shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Lorel Latorilla wrote: View Post
How are you preparing yourself for this very high calling?
I suppose it is through dedicated & consistent meditation. The same path towards Spiritual Enlightenment.

Bear in mind that Aikido is a very spiritual Budo system. One should never ignore the spiritual emphasis in Aikido, or it would just be the tip of the iceberg we are scrapping.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:00 AM   #50
Michael Varin
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 567
United_States
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Re: BJJ shows weakness in this street fight

Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote:
The full force Randori BJJ and Judo practitioners do help prepare them for resistance in a real-life situation. However, this would be far more dangerous in an Aikido dojo and would certainly result in a big increase in injuries.

Judo/BJJ techniques allow you to go full-contact and know that you probably aren't going to seriously injure your training partner as long as they have good ukemi and know when to tap. Many Aikido techniques just don't lend themselves well to this kind of training. Sankyo can go from lock to spiral-break far faster than someone can tap. You would need to limit the techniques to those that are safe.
This is flat out untrue. Unfortunately, it is a common misconception.

At my school we have been training aikido techniques against fully resisting opponents for over three years and have only had one injury during that time.

I really liked Kevin's 2010 posts in this thread. (Don't know if it was Halloween or what, but there have been a lot of threads resurrected in the past week.)

The realities of non-sport/ego fighting are: 1) numbers, 2) surprise, and 3) weapons.

The direction this thread has taken has given us another great opportunity to explore where aikido's techniques fit into the spectrum of martial arts.

Evading attacks until you can access your weapons, utilizing techniques to allow you to continue using your weapons, and applying techniques that can stop someone from using their weapon and force them to release their grip on that weapon are crucial.

Oh! One more thing the bjj guy from the story that the OP referred to should have used the lowly katate dori. He might have had fewer stab wounds. Think about that.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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