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Old 07-03-2005, 08:04 PM   #1
WW-squared
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nishio aikido and related systems

Hello everyone.
I'm currently practicing the Nishio system of Aikido here in Japan and have been for the last ten months (approximately). I will be returning to Toronto, Canada soon and would like to continue in the Nishio system but have found that there aren't any dojo's offering this particular "brand". I realize Nishio Sensei developed his style from Aikikai and there are plenty dojos offering the Aikikai experience but I was wondering if there are any other systems that were closer to Nishio's aikido?
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Old 07-04-2005, 02:42 AM   #2
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Many styles have similarities to Nishio senseis style of Aikido, but it would probably be very difficult to find a style that completely mathces what you are doing now. Especially the ken-tai-ken, ken-tai-jo and to-ho iai will be difficult to find somewhere else. It is very unique for Nishio sensei. Other senseis have weaponswork but it's not the same.

From a friend of mine I have heard that Nishio sensei is not really big in Canada, so you should concider changing to a different style or travel to a different country. Denmark is not that different from Canada I've been told - and our national 'style' of aikido is Nishio style

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

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Old 07-04-2005, 03:50 AM   #3
WW-squared
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

HI Jorgen,
thanks for the reply. Actually, when I didn't find any Nishio style dojos in Canada, there was a brief moment where I actually considered moving to Denmark
Thanks again.
Wil
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Old 07-04-2005, 06:52 PM   #4
maikerus
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Wilfred Wong wrote:
Hello everyone.
I'm currently practicing the Nishio system of Aikido here in Japan and have been for the last ten months (approximately). I will be returning to Toronto, Canada soon and would like to continue in the Nishio system but have found that there aren't any dojo's offering this particular "brand".
Hi there,

I have no idea what style the Nishio system would be closest to, but I highly recommend Kimeda Sensei's Yoshinkan dojo at Yonge and Gerard.

He is a great teacher and a really good guy. He does a fair bit of weapons and I had a bunch of his students over here in my dojo for a night of training a couple of weeks ago...a good time. He was also my first teacher 21 years <gasp> ago.

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-04-2005, 07:21 PM   #5
PeterR
 
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

I second the Kimeda dojo recommendation - hey I only trained there once but if I was in the area that is where I would train.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 07-04-2005, 09:05 PM   #6
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

When you return to Canada check out the dojos in your area, you might find one that is suitable to what you want to practice. From what I've seen of Nishio Sensei (mostly video and books), his Aikido is not significantly different from the standard Aikikai style technique. The difference appears to me to be mainly in his explanations. His weapons work is somewhat different but you can probably easily adapt that into what you will be doing. You don't have to give up what you already have learned in order to explore something new. And, who knows you might be able to facilitate some exchange between your Nishio school in Japan and the next dojo you decide to join in Canada.....
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Old 07-07-2005, 02:50 PM   #7
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Hi W.


i don't know about going to a yoshinkan dojo if you are looking for Nishio system. As i understand it, nishio being similar to aikikai, you may be better off going to an aikikai school.



o..
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Old 07-07-2005, 06:30 PM   #8
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

I would agree with Joseph. Since no "exact match" seems to be available, your best bet is simply to visit a few likely candidate dojos and take it from there. You may want to make sure you catch them on a day on which the Chief Instructor is teaching. Otherwise, just play it by ear.
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Old 07-07-2005, 07:20 PM   #9
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

If you decide to stay in Toronto you will have to completly change a style. You will have to learn everything from the beginning. Even ukemi.
Otherwise move to the country where is Nishio style.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-07-2005, 08:15 PM   #10
Joe Bowen
 
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
If you decide to stay in Toronto you will have to completly change a style. You will have to learn everything from the beginning. Even ukemi.
Otherwise move to the country where is Nishio style.
Rubbish! You won't have to start over, nor forsake what you have learned while practicing with the Nishio school. But, you will need to keep an open mind about how whichever school or style you decide to continue in does thing differently from your previous school. This is true across the board whether you are shifting from a Yoshinkan, Tomiki, Ki, or Aikikai school to another. You never have to give up what you have learned. But, you must integrate the new processes into your training. If you refuse to practice in the proscribed manner, you will not be in harmony with the new school.
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Old 07-07-2005, 09:13 PM   #11
WW-squared
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Hi all,
thank you for all your thoughts. I briefly spoke to my sensei (he only speaks Japanese and my Japanese is still at the laughable stage), So what i think he said would be to continue in the Aikikai line. SO that's what I'm going to do.

Thanks again to everybody who put their two cents in. really appreciate your thoughts (even to the extremist...really everything???!!!...nahhhh...I'm not that wet behind the ears)

domo arigatou gozaimashita
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:01 AM   #12
maikerus
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
If you decide to stay in Toronto you will have to completly change a style. You will have to learn everything from the beginning. Even ukemi.
Otherwise move to the country where is Nishio style.


Give me strength. If people joining Aikido from a different MA background can learn some basic Aikido and then have their background help them then the same can be true for people moving from one style of Aikido to another...and it will be faster.

There are lots of good dojos in Toronto. I suggest worrying about instructor and dojo culture first and style second.

WRT Aikikai in Toronto, a guy named Osamu Obata (who, incidently is a friend of Kimeda Sensei) teaches Aikikai at the Japanese Canadian Cultural Center: http://www.toronto.ca.emb-japan.go.j...ido/obata.html

Coincidently, he is the guy who interviewed me for my first visa to Japan...since I did Aikido and that was the reason for my wanting a visa he was very helpful

Of course...I still recommend Kimeda Sensei first since he was my first instructor and teaches Yoshinkan

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:45 AM   #13
xuzen
 
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

I started my aikido journey as a Shodo-Thug... then joining an Aikikai Hombu style dojo... and finally settling down in a Yoshinkan style dojo. All these changes are mainly due to life changes... finishing varsity courses... getting a job... changing jobs... relocation... etc etc. These are all unavoidable changes in ones' life. So that is why changing dojo is not that uncommon.

When I switched from the Aikikai to the Yoshinkan dojo... the latter break-falls scared the hell out of me. Their shihonage is a killer to take... whereas my previous aikikai style release the lock and we do a back breakfall on our own... the Yoshinkan style crank the lock all the way down to the mat and then lock you up.

One more thing I noticed the different BTW the two dojo... my previous aikikai dojo tend to do the techniques quietly... ala meditative type movement and my current yoshinkan is basically a grunt n groan boot camp. The two could not be more extreme in differences. But then this is the only aikido dojo available.

After looking past these superficial differences, I noticed that both are aikido and it is just of different flavour. After a while I slowly transformed from a gentle aiki elf to a brutish Yoshin Ogre. But I still consider both as aikido.

Wil, if there is not Nishio style... do something else, there are after all aikido still. Hope you find the transition easy.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 07-08-2005, 01:10 AM   #14
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:


Give me strength. If people joining Aikido from a different MA background can learn some basic Aikido and then have their background help them then the same can be true for people moving from one style of Aikido to another...and it will be faster.

There are lots of good dojos in Toronto. I suggest worrying about instructor and dojo culture first and style second.

WRT Aikikai in Toronto, a guy named Osamu Obata (who, incidently is a friend of Kimeda Sensei) teaches Aikikai at the Japanese Canadian Cultural Center: http://www.toronto.ca.emb-japan.go.j...ido/obata.html

Coincidently, he is the guy who interviewed me for my first visa to Japan...since I did Aikido and that was the reason for my wanting a visa he was very helpful

Of course...I still recommend Kimeda Sensei first since he was my first instructor and teaches Yoshinkan

cheers,

--Michael

I can recommend Obata Sensei. He is a student of Tanaka Shigeho sensei and is sempai to my sensei in Tokyo (also a student of Tanaka Sensei). I trained with him in Tokyo one time (also trained with Tanaka sensei a couple of times) when he came to visit on a trip home, very nice Aikido.

rgds

Bryan

Last edited by batemanb : 07-08-2005 at 01:14 AM.

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 07-08-2005, 06:49 AM   #15
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

I would also definitely recommend Obata sensei - he comes over to the UK from time to time (he's back this October I think). His Aikido is very very good indeed.

If you want to see some images from him then there are some on my website - http://www.phoenix-aikido.com/galler...ensei_2003.htm

Best Regards,
John

www.chishindojo.co.uk
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Old 07-08-2005, 01:30 PM   #16
barnibis
 
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Hi All,


Yeah, my earlier comment was meant to be as objective as possible. Considering you are asking about dojos that more closely approximate Nisho, i believe aikikai is more suitable than Yoshinkan.

I agree the dojo culture is really important, you have to jive with that and the only way to know for sure is to visit.


Re: Obata Sensei, he seems like a nice man, I trained with him a few times at a seminar. I like him, but i don't know him as well as others who have trained under him. I just remembered my first impression of him were really positive, back then i didn't evenknow who he was, someone had to tell me later!




Good Luck Wilfred!


o..
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Old 07-11-2005, 09:21 PM   #17
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:


Give me strength. If people joining Aikido from a different MA background can learn some basic Aikido and then have their background help them then the same can be true for people moving from one style of Aikido to another...and it will be faster.
If you want to preserve something from your previous aikido style, your cup isn't empty and you will learn in selective way. Every shihan's style is in fact a system of teaching. You take it all, or nothing. Can't choose only things you like. Or add something from other style. It simple doesn't fit in the system. It has no meaning at all in other system.

It is particularly true on non-physical level of learning. One must find a good teacher, trust him in everything. Style is secondary and not important at all.

My advice is to go to every dojo in Toronto, observe sensei, his teaching, how they practice, try practice a bit, and choose one you feel teacher is for you.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:16 PM   #18
maikerus
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
If you want to preserve something from your previous aikido style, your cup isn't empty and you will learn in selective way. Every shihan's style is in fact a system of teaching. You take it all, or nothing. Can't choose only things you like. Or add something from other style. It simple doesn't fit in the system. It has no meaning at all in other system.
I don't get it. If what you say is true then seminars, visiting dojos, changing dojos are all worthless. I don't see why you have to start over again and not subtly (or not so subtly) change what you know.

What about organizations that have many dojos, but that they all get together for testing under one panel. How can that work if every dojo has a different teaching style.

Also...if you set the teaching style to be set by a shihan in an organization, then what about people in that organization who primarly trained under different shihan...

And..now that I think of it...your cup is never empty. That metaphor is to say keep an open mind and don't dismiss what you don't know. It's not about knowing nothing every time you step on the mat. If that were true then you would never rise in rank because you couldn't base what you know today upon what you knew yesterday.

I think the point is that what you know becomes part of what you are being taught. It's not a different thing.

Weird...can't follow your thinking here. There must have been some huge change in understanding in your training between different dojos or instructors or something. I don't think that that is the case with everyone.

Of course...that being said...I guess I shouldn't dismiss what I don't understand <wry grin>


Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
One must find a good teacher, trust him in everything. Style is secondary and not important at all.

My advice is to go to every dojo in Toronto, observe sensei, his teaching, how they practice, try practice a bit, and choose one you feel teacher is for you.
FWIW...I agree with this.

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-11-2005, 11:20 PM   #19
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

I really believe you can only have one teacher at any one time but that does not negate reading and attending seminars, or cross-training. In fact Shihans job is to help you develop your own Aikido not to generate clones of himself and most of the work for that falls upon yourself.

Sadly Nishio sensei is dead and can no longer help you. You must find a new teacher who could be a senior student of Nishio or someone further afield. The teachings may continue to inspire but you need the feedback. If the Japan connection is too far - than you must find someone local.

In the meantime - there is nothing to be lost by training under someone else and possibly a whole lot to be gained. Whenever I do that, or read a book, I relate what it says back to my chosen teacher. That works.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:28 PM   #20
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
I don't get it.
Well, it is rather simple. I'll give you an example. Let's say, you come to aikikai from yoshinkan. You simply loved form of kata training based on 1,2,3….counting and want to preserve it in aikikai dojo. Unfortunately, the result of such training is contrary to fluid conditioning that aikikai teacher wants to teach to his students.

Other example: With Ki aikido background you move to yoshinkan dojo. But instead of doing boring kata-like 1,2,3….you prefer to make hops(a la K.Tohei sensei) and doing Ki tests. Everybody doing 1,2,3 movements, you doing hops.
What will say your present head instructor?

Now you understand?
If you take some element of system A out of realm of this system, these elements have non sense.

In organizations that have many dojos, they teach a system of one particular shihan. Not some techniques of Tomiki aikido, mixed with bjj and Kali. That will be MMA, not aikido anymore.

In this sense cross training is useless. Every MA use different body conditioning that depends of the goals. Some goals are contradictory (to kill with one blow versus to have compassion) so conditioning will be contradictory.

If you really want to learn a teaching of particular shihan in aikido, IMO you must completely switch to his system.

Nagababa

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Old 07-12-2005, 09:33 PM   #21
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
In the meantime - there is nothing to be lost by training under someone else and possibly a whole lot to be gained.
If you switch to our style you will have to learn our way of doing ukemi (not only rolling...) and completly forget Tomiki way. If I move to your system, it will be the same. Otherwise it will be very dangerous. Different reaction can be interpreted as trying to counter a technique or simply will not protect you enough against power of technique.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:40 PM   #22
maikerus
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Now you understand?
If you take some element of system A out of realm of this system, these elements have non sense.
Nope...still don't get it.

I would think if you decide to stay there then what is being taught gets incorporated into the gestalt of your training and isn't seperate. You do it the new way but still remember the old.

But that might just be me...if your way works for you then I say go for it

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:54 PM   #23
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Re: nishio aikido and related systems

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
If you switch to our style you will have to learn our way of doing ukemi (not only rolling...) and completly forget Tomiki way. If I move to your system, it will be the same. Otherwise it will be very dangerous. Different reaction can be interpreted as trying to counter a technique or simply will not protect you enough against power of technique.
I've never had that much trouble moving between styles - really not that much of a difference. Its just politeness not to be overtly different when one goes to visit but the skills are transferable.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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