Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Weapons

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-03-2005, 08:59 PM   #26
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,422
United_States
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
Training with intent and focus can be done without a weapon in hand. If you cannot train that way maybe you should train harder and not use weapons as a crutch (oops...did I say that? LOL).

Who can really argue with that?!



However, I still feel my first offering of learning how to sense the Ki of an encounter is very much cultivated through paired weapons practice in a way that Body Art simply can never duplicate. I seem to remember that, though truthfully I cannot now tell you to what degree, this is elaborated upon in a book by Kenji Tokitsu. The book is titled, "Ki and the Way of the Martial Arts." Please forgive me if the book doesn't exactly touch this topic as much as I am suggesting here - it's been a while since I read it. However, it is a good read and I do know that it does touch on the reasons for practicing with weapons. I highly recommend it. For more information, if one desires, we have several articles on weapons work and their rationale (as we see it) at our web site.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2005, 09:42 PM   #27
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
There are enough techniques within the Aikido framework without weapons for me to spend the next 50 years working on without diluting them by cross-training with weapons .
--Michael
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!! What a heresy!!!!!!!!!!
Weapons are integral part of aikido system, not something outside of system

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2005, 10:04 PM   #28
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,059
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

I would say that the advantage of weapons is that training tends to be done in formal kata where you can introduce a level of intensity. It's not the weapon - it's the kata practice.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2005, 10:08 PM   #29
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!! What a heresy!!!!!!!!!!
Weapons are integral part of aikido system, not something outside of system
Actually...it would appear that they are not an integral part of the Yoshinkan hombu dojo Aikido system, even though they are of yours.

The comment about cross-training was tongue-in-cheek, I admit. But it was to make the point that in what I have studied in Japan does not include weapons as an integral part of the curriculum.

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 12:36 AM   #30
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
Since I came to Japan 12 years ago I found that we did NOT practice weapons at the hombu dojo. They were there to illustrate some points, or for fun, but there are no weapons classes and very, very seldom are they pulled off the rack.
I trained daily for four and a half years at Aikikai Honbu Dojo. What Micheal wrote covers that Honbu as well. In that time period, only Yokota Sensei, in only one class, had us working with bokken.

Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 12:51 AM   #31
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,004
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

I think there are several factors in this issue that are sometimes run together:

1. Morihei Ueshiba's own training history in aikido. He seems to have gone though successive stages: of dabbling with weapons, to intensive training with weapons (especially in Iwama), to virtually no training with weapons (from the late 1950s). These succesive stages are sometimes isolated and used as evidence that aikido is, or is not, a weapon-based art, and/or needs, or does not need, training with weapons.

2. Morihei Ueshiba's own teaching methodology. I am not sure how far this went, beyond teaching as showing and then expecting his deshi to understand what he had shown. Thus, having them take ukemi and be his partners for such weapons exercises as are found in Budo (1938) were the ways he did this. I cite this manual, because it is the only book containing weapons training that has Morihei Ueshiba as author.

3. The methods used by Morihei Ueshiba's deshi themselves to understand what he taught. By all the accounts I have from talking to some of them, the deshi understood neither what he was saying, nor what he was doing and had to 'imaginatively reconstruct' this in their own training. Every single Japanese aikidoka of senior rank (6th dan and above) I have talked to admitted to having trained with weapons and many devised their own training systems.

The development of a training system is a way into understanding the internal architecture of aikido as a budo, but the two are not the same. Nevertheless, all three factors outlined above come into play when considering aikido as a training system and as a budo.

Best regards to all,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 12:51 AM   #32
Tubig
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 90
Australia
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

So having been to Japan and had limited practice with weapons. Do you feel that your aikido is good and complete?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 12:53 AM   #33
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,059
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Yes.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 12:58 AM   #34
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
So having been to Japan and had limited practice with weapons. Do you feel that your aikido is good and complete?
Good question.

Yes <simple answer>

However, I wouldn't say that my training is complete since it is an ongoing process, but I do think that it is comprehensive and now if I was to pick up a weapon my weapon work would be better than it was 12 years ago.

There are other things I would also like to add to my repetoire to make my Aikido a little broader, but I think the core is what has been focused on here and I don't think I would want it any other way... <longer answer>

Peter...thanks for those 3 points. Illuminating.

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 07:12 AM   #35
Dazzler
Dojo: Templegate Dojo, bristol & Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 638
England
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Mark Walsh wrote:
This needn't be a theoretical debate. Acid test: Are there any outstanding aikido teachers who have done little or no weapons? I would suspect there to be at least some, but maybe not that many. Names please anyone - Daren?

Mark
Pierre Chassang doesn't do a great deal of weapons, Michel Narey has also gone through phases of not using weapons regularly.

Both are highly experienced and long time aikido men of Europe.

But I wouldn't dream of saying either had little or no weapons.

I've only known them for 15 years - everything else I know about their history is only hearsay.

My view which I think is shared by many here it that you can still learn Aikido without weapons.

My original post said 'aikidoka' ...names of aikidoka that produce what I consider to be high level aikido would be my great friends John Dinsdale and David Strong. On this forum I could just as easily say Postman Pat since neither is famous or desires to be.

But those that have trained with them will know what I mean.

Weapons are fine tools to teach aikido. They complement the teaching of Tai Jutsu.

As an instructor they broaden the platform on which you can deliver your aikido lesson.

If someone is saying that it is not possible to teach aikido without weapons I would have to disagree. If this were the case then no one would ever be able to construct a lesson that did not include weapons.

Personally I find challenges in the weapons work that I enjoy. In someways the lack of physical contact makes it seem less 'personal' and it seems easier to remain mentally centred than when one is being worked over.

Szepan had previously mentioned this.

So they can and do provide variation - this can definitely enhance practice for all but the most anti-stick wavers.

However...my opinion is yes - weapons training is good for aikido practice but it is possible to achieve good aikido practice without it.

I dont think this is a positive Acid test result either way.

Perhaps a better one would be..

Can you teach kamae without weapons?
Can you teach irimi without weapons?
Can you teach atemi without weapons?
Can you teach maai without weapons?
Can you teach shisei without weapons?

I'll leave it there....anyone got any no's?

Regards

D
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 09:39 AM   #36
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 608
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

I like Peter Goldsbury's idea that weapons help to understand the architecture of Aikido as a budo. Following this conversation though, it is apparent to me that the follow up will be, "can't you understand the architecture of Aikido as a budo without weapons?"
I suppose there's not too much sense in continuing the discussion since everyone's minds are already made up. For me, the question is a simple one because my teacher believes that weapons practice is vital to improving and understanding your aikido. I happen to admire his aikido and want to learn all I can from him. Although I'll never be able to do what he does, I would feel complimented if anyone ever said my aikido was like his. As my instructor, he can help me along my path if I take advantage of his knowledge so I plan to follow his example.
Interestingly enough, he has been doing Aikido for 52 years at the Aikikai Hombu Dojo where they typically don't do weapons. I have heard that the leadership of the Aikikai has taken the position that weapons are not an integral part of Aikido an art (pardon me if I stated that too loosely). I also know how deeply he respects Doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba. Having said that, my instructor believes so deeply in weapons practice that he always teaches one hour of weapons practice for every hour of body arts in all classes and even in seminars. Last year at our seminar in October, he looked at my students and he told me that I needed to take seriously their need to learn their weapons better so that they could improve their aikido. I have been doing that ever since. I was stuck by the statement though and I don't pretend to understand it's implications nor do I use it as an argument for weapons in this discussion. I just mention it because after hearing all this we have been saying on this forum thread, I think I finally have a great question to ask when he comes back. I know he thinks it's important. I want to ask him 1) Can a person can get better without weapons practice? 2) If so, then why do them at all? 3 Why does he think they are so important if his own organization doesn't stress them?
I know he has spent many years going up into the mountains and doing weapons for long periods of time. I have seen him working with an iaito doing various kinds of cuts in his private training for hours. He has taken weapons practice very seriously in his own practice.It's about time I looked into this further. Thanks for all your help with this discussion!
Best,

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 02:05 PM   #37
Adam Huss
 
Adam Huss's Avatar
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 664
United_States
Offline
Smile Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

My teacher is also very adamant about weapons training. He says that the truly highest level of practitioners got where they were by working with weapons. Yes, everyone has their own opinion about weapons in relationship to helping their aikido (or any other budo) in that it helps with maai, timing, extension of control etc etc, but it helps in another way as well. We are taught that in order to gain something, you must risk something as well. With buki, there is a step down in control, you can't literally feel with a bokken, jo etc., so there is slight risk increase. Shitei and Uke are putting themselves in each others hands. They are offering to each other their bodies so that the other can train and learn. My teacher often likens aikido toshu waza and buki waza to metaphors for life. He frequently speaks about how unique aikido is, in that we study uke just as much as shitei. Why do we pay good money to offer our hand to someone when we know what they are going to do will most likely hurt a bit? Well, things in life are going to be painful and in life we can either stand defiantly against the howling wind, yelling at it to stop and eventually be blown away (or have your writs snap! ) or we can flow with it, relax, temporarily go down on one knee and tap, then get back up and shitei uke kotai! When life grabs you by the wrist and does a cross step, body shift, pump arm breath throw, you can either fly across a couple of mats and do a face plant, or you can take some personal initiative and train yourself to do a nice smooth breakfall, roll up to your feet and turn around in kamae, ready to go again. Weapons take this idea one step further. With aikido you rarely train full out hardcore. If you did, your dojo would be very thinly populated, they would be injured or just not like the abuse and not come back (Kushida Sensei was like this in his begging years of teaching and his dojo attendance dropped dramatically, however the ones that stayed were forged into pretty darn good aikidoka, technically and spiritually). With weapons, though, you can actually go all out and not worry about hurting each other as you don't (at least not supposed to) actually make much contact. But it allows you to just go all out, take your knife, put it in your stomach, open yourself up, spill out your life's energy and leave everything on the mat...in that one moment, in that one chance! (ichi go, ichi ei!). Nothing else matters at that time. Train yourself to be able to turn on that mindset of a sword duel to the death, shinken shobu, whether you are doing kumitachi, jiyuwaza, or roofing your house or playing with your children...live life for each moment that it is without dwelling on the past, or fretting about the future.
Anyways...thats why I train in weapons, and thats why I do martial arts in general.
To stay in shape?: well aikido is okay, there is some aerobic aspect to it...but I lift and run 6 times a week, which is much more efficient
To learn how to fight?: how many fights have you been in in the last 10 minutes, last day, week, month, year...for some people lifetime? Now, how many times in the last day, week, month have you had to make a decision, deal with another human being, cope with stressful or difficult situations? What is a higher level of aikido: someone who can blend with a strike, tenkan to the outside, body shift, and take the attacker down in a shihonage and pin them without hurting them (very good level), or someone who can stop the attacker from wanting to attack, find out what is wrong with him/her, blend with that person and help them fix their problem, make their life better and in turn the person who was going to attack changes himself and positively effects other people's lives and this positive energy grows exponentially (master level...read the 'Terry Dobson on the train' story for a good example of this).
I train to make my life, and other people's lives around me better. Weapons help me do this. Aikido helps me do this. They are my chosen vessel. Other people have their own ways of pursuing this...whether you go to a zen monastery or teach middle school, if taken in the right mindset, you can still achieve shu shi (self mastery). Take initiative and train yourself to "be the change you want to see in the world."
I train in Budo to pursue my life's goal....bliss. To be completely happy for absolutely no reason at all.

Osu!
~Adam

P.S. About the cutting open your stomach thing I wasn't suggesting that people actually commit seppuku, but I was using that as a metaphor for putting all of yourself into something....so please put the aikuchi tanto down, and crack open a beer with your second instead! (Not suggesting that anyone would listen to me and kill themselves...I was just making a joke )

Last edited by Adam Huss : 07-04-2005 at 02:17 PM.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 02:27 PM   #38
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,422
United_States
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Okay - so opinions have been given. Not much as changed - as others have mentioned here.

But how about this: How about some videos of folks doing weapons. Let's see this training tool in action and then see if we can determine its relevant role (or irrelevant) in our body art.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 07:40 PM   #39
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

It might also be worth noting that those adament about needing weapons as part of their training are those that trained with weapons and those that are adament that they are not are those who haven't had them as part of their training.

Which just goes to show...something

In my case I went from thinking they were necessary and the answer to all of the little mysteries to thinking that they were interesting but didn't duplicate the empty hand scenario well enough.

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 08:05 PM   #40
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Michael,
Why do you think that weapons must duplicate empty hands scenario????? What's a funny idea!!
It will NEVER happen. Weapons influent empty hand practice in very indirect way.
I did first 10 years of practice almost without weapons. Then did I.Shibata sensei(from Berkeley aikikai) seminar and it was really serious shock, I immediately understood how poor was my aikido without weapons practice.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 08:19 PM   #41
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,059
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Good for you Szczepan but does that reflect weapons or how you were previously trained.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2005, 08:32 PM   #42
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Michael,
Why do you think that weapons must duplicate empty hands scenario????? What's a funny idea!!
It will NEVER happen. Weapons influent empty hand practice in very indirect way.
My poor wording...perhaps a better wording would be that weapons practice was shown to me not to be needed to improve my Aikido and that Aikido was shown to me to be more empty hand than weapons.

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
I did first 10 years of practice almost without weapons. Then did I.Shibata sensei(from Berkeley aikikai) seminar and it was really serious shock, I immediately understood how poor was my aikido without weapons practice.
And I went through the opposite transformation. That is also interesting

It therefore probably reflects more of the philosophy of our instructors than the reality of need/not need then.

It might also reflect the quality of instruction or perhaps our own understanding of that instruction that we went through in the first years and the latter years...in my case my training in later years was much more intense and focused. I don't think this is because of the instructor, but more my own commitment to training and perhaps the programs I was enrolled in.

Just a thought.

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2005, 12:44 AM   #43
Tubig
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 90
Australia
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Takeda, Osensei, and Saito Sensei were all great swash bucklers. Doesn't that say something about their aiki.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2005, 01:03 AM   #44
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,059
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
Takeda, Osensei, and Saito Sensei were all great swash bucklers. Doesn't that say something about their aiki.
Its pretty much an aside but there really only is one story of Takeda S. using his sword n real life" and neither of the above three gentleman were particularily known for their sword skills (outside of AIkido). In fact there is quite a bit of critism outside of Aikido of both Ueshiba M. and Saito vis a vis their knowledge of the sword as sword.

Aiki is originally a kenjutus term but really, at least in my opinion, that's as far as it goes.

Although I will say that the curriculum and its emphasis on weapons the elder Saito developed seems to serve the Iwama stylists quite well - I don't think it is the only path to good Aikido.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2005, 02:37 AM   #45
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,085
United_States
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Its pretty much an aside but there really only is one story of Takeda S. using his sword E real life" and neither of the above three gentleman were particularily known for their sword skills (outside of AIkido). In fact there is quite a bit of critism outside of Aikido of both Ueshiba M. and Saito vis a vis their knowledge of the sword as sword.
Takeda was actually a well known swordsman before he was ever known for Daito-ryu. He had menkyo kaiden in Jiki-Shinkage Ryu from Kenkichi Sakakibara, one of the most famous swordsmen of the period, and was also expert in Ono-ha Itto-ryu, which he began studying as a young child. If he'd been just a couple of years older he probably would have died along with the other members of the Byakkotai in Aizu, so "real life" sword work was something that he grew up with.

Morihei Ueshiba's sword appears to have been mostly self taught and was either excellent or just mediocre, depending upon whose opinion you listen to. My guess would be that his sword work was probably quite good, but unorthodox and unorganized (as in unorganized into a coherent or traditional system). He did receive a Yagyu Shinkage-ryu kenjutsu menkyo from Sokaku in 1922.

Saito's sword is mostly an effort to systemize what Ueshiba was doing, but seems, IMO, to have gotten fairly far from the original sword work into a system that is more oriented towards teaching body movement.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2005, 02:54 AM   #46
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,059
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Hi Chris;

I know Takeda S. was trained by noteable sword teachers - not the point I was trying to make. He was not particularily famous for his sword skills or for using it in any "swashbuckling"way. Same with Ueshiba M. and Saito S.


Quote:
Yagyu Shinkage-ryu kenjutsu menkyo from Sokaku in 1922.
You mention two schools that Takeda S. was connected with - what about Yagyu Shinkage-ryu. What is his connection there?

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2005, 01:06 PM   #47
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,085
United_States
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Hi Chris;

I know Takeda S. was trained by noteable sword teachers - not the point I was trying to make. He was not particularily famous for his sword skills or for using it in any "swashbuckling"way. Same with Ueshiba M. and Saito S.
My impression was, as I said, that Takeda was quite well known as a swordsman before he started propogating Daito-ryu.

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
You mention two schools that Takeda S. was connected with - what about Yagyu Shinkage-ryu. What is his connection there?
Nobody knows, but there is quite a bit of Takeda's life that is undocumented, and the Ueshiba family has the menkyo from Takeda in their possession.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2005, 04:27 PM   #48
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Can you do ballet without pointe(toe) shoes?

Jeanne
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2005, 07:13 PM   #49
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,059
Japan
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Quote:
Jeanne Shepard wrote:
Can you do ballet without pointe(toe) shoes?
Maybe not but you can do Aikido without a sword.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2005, 08:05 PM   #50
Rupert Atkinson
 
Rupert Atkinson's Avatar
Dojo: Wherever I am.
Location: South Korea, Yongin
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 803
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Weapons training leads to good aikido.

Where you sit is where you stand. Those who have done lots of weapons training will always advocate it, those who do not, won't. As for me, I stand with Szczepan on this one. Only David V, who uses weapons, agrees that they may not not always necessary -- meaning, he has a balanced opinion. Also, if you check out his movies, you will see that his weapons work is very good. But I'll debate him on one point

Quote:
David V: Do practitioners of the oar or the various "farming" utensils of other arts need to get in a boat and row or get in the field and do some farming before they understand these weapons and/or garner the benefits of training in them? I say, no.
I say, it would help. A ferryman who rows his boat across the river everyday will know his oar very well indeed and would probably make quite a formidable opponent - with an oar - with little or no martial training at all. Also, here in Korea, I often see teams of women cutting grass all day long with their sickles. All day long. Who has more skill / who would you rather face? - A Karateka who knows a sickle kata (kama), or one of these women? It is not necessary to know how to row a boat to fight with an oar, or cut grass with a sickle, but it could help And imagine hundreds of years when fighting erupted in the countryside - people would take up tools (weapons) they were 'familiar' with.

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AikiWeb News: New Article: Sword and Aikido AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 16 09-18-2012 03:48 PM
Brawling with a friend Luc X Saroufim General 227 07-17-2006 08:33 PM
Culture of Martial Mediocrity? L. Camejo Training 160 02-03-2006 02:25 AM
Training iai as a part of aikido Stefaan Six General 4 07-27-2005 07:20 PM
When Can an Instructor Stop Training? Magma General 42 10-20-2004 02:51 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:25 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate