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Old 07-05-2005, 07:22 AM   #26
creinig
Dojo: Yoshinkan Würzburg
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Re: Training against Violent Assault

Quote:
Nick Simpson wrote:
Hence my point that training 'self-defence techniques' is largely useless...
Depends on what you train -- IMSHO techniques to get out of various grabs, to dazzle the attacker to give you a head start and if possible to prevent him from effectively pursuing are perfectly valid for self defence and can be nicely practiced. In fact I'd be so bold to state that any "self defense training" even remotely worthy of that name will not consist primarily of eye gouging, biting and "kebap for the impatient"

PS: obligatory link for that topic (since it hasn't been mentioned yet): http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:33 AM   #27
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Training against Violent Assault

Lol interesting thread.

If folks believe that self defence is about dirty tricks or that one can't train for it, well all I can say is - Good Luck and I hope you NEVER get attacked.

Situational awareness and not making oneself an easy target is paramount to effective self defence (which is part of safety education imho, like learning too safely cross the street) and is the basis of one's "long-medium range" SD system imho. If one truly understands the process whereby attackers target and select their victims and how they interview their targets to "feel them out", then one can act in ways to negate or avoid those conditions, thereby greatly reducing the possibility of physical confrontation. This is the first step.

In situations where we do something stupid and put ourselves into dangerous situations, or attackers are just too stupid to realise that they picked the wrong target or are intent on attacking regardless of warning signs, again awareness comes into play and more importantly our ability to control our fear and adrenal responses in the face of this sort of pressure and danger. Again, these things are part of every physical confrontation, so the key is to obtain a deep understanding of the common factors of a physical attack and maximise one's ability to influence or control these factors.

The ambush/multiple attacker situation (something I've experienced and survived) is probably one of the worst and hardest to defend against, but instead of assuming that I'd be toast in such a situation and immediately start preparing for the inevitable trip to the other side, it may help one to have the presence of mind to at least try to make the best of a bad situation. Training, confidence, calmness and awareness greatly helps your odds when this happens. The whole point of being a victim is that you allow yourself to be violated. Acting contrary to that impression in a powerful manner can have a great effect towards shifting the scales in your favour.

When it comes down to it one needs to realise that the majority of situations will involve some manifestation of a "bully" type attack, whether it be a mugger, rapist etc. and just like a bully, if you mount a fast, effective and petrifyingly devastating attack, they will decide attacking is too much trouble and seek to escape alive themselves. For the others like the mentally ill, sociopaths, those under the influence of drugs and anyone else who generally has left the world of rational reasoning, then Nike Defence is the best imo. Run like hell.

It is very possible to train for violent assault, but one needs a teacher first who truly understands the nature of violent assault, the criminal/sociopath mind and the mind of the typical victim. In the end your particular environment will determine what sort of assaults you may commonly encounter and the types of weapons involved, but nothing is absolutely guaranteed. All one can do is prepare oneself as best as possible and what style or system one does is less important than one's ability to use awareness and function correctly under the intense stress of violent assault imho.

As far as the mindset required for truly entering this realm of training, I think this article may have some bearing imho - http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepw...sheepdogs.html .

Of course I reserve the right to be wrong.

Peace.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:20 AM   #28
Nick Simpson
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Re: Training against Violent Assault

Prevention is best, of course. Dont look like, act like a victim. Dont walk down dark alleys at night alone etc etc. im not saying self defense is all dirty tricks. Ok, maybe I was a little final on the subject. As for talking about biting/dirty tricks etc etc:

In the paper this morning I read about a female teacher who had been beaten, strangled, forced into sex acts and then raped by a pupil. She bit the rapist's penis and stabbed him with a pen before fleeing to safety. Sounds effective to me.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:38 AM   #29
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Training against Violent Assault

I think the problem with the self defense mentality come when you are focused on training from a perspective of losing or fear. Many Reality Based Self Defense (RBSD) organizations acutely prey on this irrational fear to gain students. I believe that this is wrong. Certainly there are individuals that have identified a set of circumstances such as an abusive old boyfriend that has threatened them, or that may live in a bad neighborhood. Having identified the risk and mitigated through passive means, they may need to develop a set of personal defenses to better protect themselves. It might be a phone call to a neighbor to escort them to the house. Developing a safe room in the house, learning to use a handgun (which I submit is a poor method for SD), etc.

Also, as Nick points out in his example above in the rape case. Teacher certainly did what she felt was necessary. Goes to my premise thatt what she did required no training in martial arts!

I think what can be learned from MA and from the article that Larry gave the link to is to reduce the "victim" mentality in the situation.

On a side note, I was involved close with 9-11 in the military down the road 1KM from the pentagon. I can tell you that day, I was a sheep and went home like everyone else in my building because we were not equipped to fight in that situation! Being a sheep or a wolf is dependent on the situation. I do consider myself a wolf 99% of the time though!
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:56 AM   #30
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Training against Violent Assault

Well said Kevin.

As Peyton Quinn of RMCAT says in one of his books: "Perfect Intent is better than Perfect Technique." The teacher did well imho.

LC

Last edited by L. Camejo : 07-05-2005 at 09:01 AM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 07-05-2005, 01:20 PM   #31
Nick Simpson
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Re: Training against Violent Assault

Good stuff chaps. As for what you were involved with on the day of 9/11 Kevin, I think you made the decision that anybody would make in that situation

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 07-05-2005, 04:26 PM   #32
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Training against Violent Assault

thanks. My point is we can all consider ourselves wolves, but in essence sometimes even wolves must take the role of sheeps depending on the situation.
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Old 07-06-2005, 11:04 AM   #33
Nick Simpson
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Re: Training against Violent Assault

You pick your battles. Only fight when you know you can win and all that?

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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