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Old 06-11-2006, 07:54 AM   #51
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
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Re: Beginners with delusions of grandeur...

Quote:
Ken McGrew wrote:
If Sensei doesn't call them on it, it will continue.
I agree Ken, everything that happens in the dojo is the Sensei's resposibility. if there is 'bad' ukemi going on, then it is the Sensei who allows it.
Of course, that doesn't mean that 'bad' ukemi shouldn't/doesn't take place. The teacher should be close enough to all their students to know ( by taking ukemi themselves perhaps ) what each student is like. Each student should be crystal clear on what the teacher wants them to aim for when they practice the role of uke. This may be different for the different 'styles' of aikido, however, if there is confusion, the teacher needs to take responsibility.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:31 AM   #52
ruthmc
Dojo: Wokingham Aikido
Location: Reading, UK
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 393
United Kingdom
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Re: Beginners with delusions of grandeur...

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
if there is 'bad' ukemi going on, then it is the Sensei who allows it.
Of course, that doesn't mean that 'bad' ukemi shouldn't/doesn't take place. The teacher should be close enough to all their students to know ( by taking ukemi themselves perhaps ) what each student is like.
This may not always happen, though, as some ukes reserve their stupid antics for their fellow students, and are as good as gold when they get hold of sensei...

It takes a pretty sharp-eyed sensei to spot that kind of thing IME.

These days I just make atemi towards the 'bad' uke's openings and then point out that I cannot do technique against that kind of attack as I am not a 10th dan

Ruth
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Old 06-13-2006, 11:52 AM   #53
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
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Re: Beginners with delusions of grandeur...

Quote:
Ruth McWilliam wrote:
This may not always happen, though, as some ukes reserve their stupid antics for their fellow students, and are as good as gold when they get hold of sensei...
Yes Ruth, there is always that old chestnut

Quote:
It takes a pretty sharp-eyed sensei to spot that kind of thing IME.
Sharp eyed or not the sensei is still responsible for what and how the students practice.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:13 AM   #54
ruthmc
Dojo: Wokingham Aikido
Location: Reading, UK
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 393
United Kingdom
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Re: Beginners with delusions of grandeur...

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Sharp eyed or not the sensei is still responsible for what and how the students practice.
Absolutely agree. But not all sensei are fully aware of their responsibilities. Perhaps we need a thread on sensei with delusions of grandeur?

Ruth
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:15 AM   #55
RoyK
Dojo: Nishin Kan
Location: Herzliya
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Israel
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Re: Beginners with delusions of grandeur...

Man does it twist my dreads when a complete newbie tries to tell me what to do. I can hardly contain myself, and I guess my eyes betray it since my look usually shuts them up.
And by the time it's their turn to do the technique, they ofcourse never get it right, and that's the end of the debate.
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:17 AM   #56
jonreading
 
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Dojo: Aikido South (formerly Emory Aikikai)
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 870
United_States
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Re: Beginners with delusions of grandeur...

The head instructor is ultimately responsible for the conduct of his/her students in the dojo. However, sensei is busy and sometimes not always capable of watching everyone all of the time. A responsibility of senpai in the dojo is to police the actions of kohai. A beginner in aikido is by definition a kohai to those already training. If senpai choose not to tolerate inappropriate actions, this helps alleviate pressure for sensei to intervene in all but those issues that transcend the senpai/kohai relationship. Be careful to recognize the difference between approaching your instructor with a problem that you cannot resolve individually, and approaching your instructor with a problem for which you do not want repsonibility.

It seems that we as an American society are constantly looking to externalize responsibility. Take the genius that cuts off his foot mowing the lawn, then sues the lawnmower manufacturer for failing to identify the lawn mower uses moving blades that may be sharp; a jury then supports the claim saying, "well, he needs the money and the lawnmower manufacturer is so big..." We externalize responsibility and our society supports those decisions.

So what does that mean? That means that sometimes students choose not to take responsibility for issues within the dojo. How often do you hear (or think) "This guy is a jerk, and he might hurt someone BUT I don't want to get involved...", "My partner is doing the technique wrong, BUT sensei will correct him...", "This guy is fighting me and he is going to get hurt BUT I'll just change my technique to accomodate him and avoid the issue."

Ask yourself, why was I unable to correct this problem independently? Here are a couple of sources for why kohai feel they have authority to conflict with other students:
1. Ignorance. Kohain that do not realize the consequences of their actions often contest or resist senior students.
2. Respect. Kohai that do not respect senpai will often openly contradict or contest senior students in training.
3. Skill. Kohai that feel they are better than senpai will often resist or contest technique from senior students.
4. Endorsement. Kohai that feel their actions are endorsed by other students (or the instructor) will often contest senior students.
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