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Old 06-03-2005, 12:29 AM   #26
senshincenter
 
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Re: Poll: Is the spiritual component of aikido inherent in the physical techniques?

Would not a "spirituality" be somewhat noticeable within one's social actions - one's interactions with others? Do not such interactions by default range along a spectrum of fear/love, selfishness/compassion, ignorance/wisdom, etc.? Would not a "spirituality" manifest itself as a kind of maturity regarding love over fear, compassion over selfishness, wisdom over ignorance? In other words, would not the more spiritual be less plagued by fear, less driven by selfishness, and less burdened by ignorance? If this is so, don't those who claim that Aikido waza is inherently spiritual have to explain why the Aikido world, from federation to federation, to dojo to dojo, is so plagued by fear, so driven by selfishness, and so burdened by ignorance? If Aikido waza was inherently capable of cultivating the spirit, and if the spirit must show itself in social aspects related to love, compassion, and wisdom, why are there not more saints or sages in the Aikido ranks? Why do such ranks seemed to be as equally represented of both jerks and nice folks as any other collection of people that don't do Aikido or anything "spiritual" at all? Why don't we even see a sharp distinction concerning the social aspects of one's spirit regarding long-time practitioners and newbies within the art? Alternately, if spirituality is inherent within the waza, how do we explain the one ***hole who has been training for twenty or thirty years -- staying just like they were when they came in?

I vote, "no way" is the cultivation of the spirit inherent to the practice of Aikido waza. Moreover, I would say no practice has inherent spirituality to it. Such a position is more superstition than it is valid insight into our own humanity. Such a position is better known as "talismanic." Rather, Man brings his/her own spirit to the practice or he/she risks having the practice remain impotent concerning such things.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
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Old 06-03-2005, 02:19 AM   #27
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Poll: Is the spiritual component of aikido inherent in the physical techniques?

Quote:
John Kuo wrote:
Michael, I would LOVE to have a Hello Kitty dogi. Details, please.
No...I am sorry, but I cannot let that EVIL out into the Aikido world.

Besides...I have no idea where the magazine is...

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 06-03-2005, 02:39 AM   #28
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
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Re: Poll: Is the spiritual component of aikido inherent in the physical techniques?

Quote:
John Kuo wrote:
Si, Si...don't you know anything? After you drop the aiki-fruitie harder the second time, ya gotta choke them out or put 'em in a jujigatame! When you leave the scene, step on their groin...there's a protocol to this, you know.
Nah, The "That's not Aikido!" and storming off is way funnier (them saying and doing - not me). I am sure they must be refering to themselves. Freaks!

Osu!
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Old 06-03-2005, 10:18 AM   #29
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Poll: Is the spiritual component of aikido inherent in the physical techniques?

Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
Would not a "spirituality" be somewhat noticeable within one's social actions - one's interactions with others? Do not such interactions by default range along a spectrum of fear/love, selfishness/compassion, ignorance/wisdom, etc.? Would not a "spirituality" manifest itself as a kind of maturity regarding love over fear, compassion over selfishness, wisdom over ignorance? In other words, would not the more spiritual be less plagued by fear, less driven by selfishness, and less burdened by ignorance? If this is so, don't those who claim that Aikido waza is inherently spiritual have to explain why the Aikido world, from federation to federation, to dojo to dojo, is so plagued by fear, so driven by selfishness, and so burdened by ignorance? If Aikido waza was inherently capable of cultivating the spirit, and if the spirit must show itself in social aspects related to love, compassion, and wisdom, why are there not more saints or sages in the Aikido ranks? Why do such ranks seemed to be as equally represented of both jerks and nice folks as any other collection of people that don't do Aikido or anything "spiritual" at all?
I think the above puts the "spirituality being inherent in the techniques" argument in a clear and focused light.

Again, well said David.

Interesting how many Yes votes there are on the poll though. Are there any counter arguments?

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 06-03-2005, 10:39 AM   #30
James Davis
 
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Re: Poll: Is the spiritual component of aikido inherent in the physical techniques?

I think it can depend on how receptive we are. Take religion, for example. I know plenty of people who regularly attend church that are very nice; then there are the others. Aikido CAN teach us some things to improve ourselves. We're only limited by our imaginations in how we interpret the lessons it teaches us.
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Old 06-03-2005, 10:41 AM   #31
billybob
 
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Re: Poll: Is the spiritual component of aikido inherent in the physical techniques?

Hi yourself Don!

Seeing how we respond I have to credit Jun for wording his questions so cleverly!

Despite my misspelling of OSensei's Chindon, Chinkon? in my earlier post, i would clarify my answer by saying I interpreted 'inherent' to mean 'included in'. Not sure everyone thinks about the word 'spiritual' the same way I do.

If you will indulge my rambling further - a judo master explained the concept of "Ippon", (perfect score in a judo match) to me as follows. Ippon, means 'Victory', or 'point', a metaphor for 'kill', he said. A friend of the judo master was asked by his mom to kill a snake. The friend asked for the master's help, and since they had been discussing judo the master used the snake as a lesson. Master said that he knew his friend had probably killed other snakes by clubbing them to death with two or three people - and the snake would sometimes get away and be chased through the bushes until finally it was beaten to death. The friend replied that yes, this was true and it was always a great fight! The master told his friend he would demonstrate 'ippon'. He took a long board, judged distance to the snake, taking his time. He let go of the board, and as it fell toward the snake he stepped on it, accelerating its movement and pushing through at the end. The snake was flattened. The friend looked disappointed, a little crestfallen that the victory was overwhelming and kind of devoid of any fun or gloating. Ippon.

Train how you want. I respect each of you.

Billybob
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Old 06-03-2005, 12:38 PM   #32
billybob
 
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Re: Poll: Is the spiritual component of aikido inherent in the physical techniques?

Sorry about the double entry, but I thought Don Modesto made a word up when he wrote 'synesthesia'.

"the transformation of physical training into a...metaphor (into synesthesia?)" - Don Modesto

Anyway I looked it up at dictionary.com:
Synesthesia:
A condition in which one type of stimulation evokes the sensation of another, as when the hearing of a sound produces the visualization of a color.
A sensation felt in one part of the body as a result of stimulus applied to another, as in referred pain.
The description of one kind of sense impression by using words that normally describe another.

Interesting. Don't limit what you might experience from training.

Si Wilson said "Come on guys, this is getting really woolly!!!!"

Maybe. But there's a reason i say i don't believe in God - how can i discover what i already know for certain?
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