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Old 05-24-2005, 11:42 PM   #1
David Yap
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Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Hi Malaysian aikido practitioners,

Can anyone here verify that there is indeed a Ki no Kenkyukai operating in Malaysia?

The dojo are listed in the Aikiweb's "Dojo Search" and it even has a website (albeit sited on a free web - meaning the owners cannot be established). The contacts shown are not reachable except for one and even the one who was contacted denied being associated with this "organization".

Sound very dubious and are the person(s) who put up the website are up to mischief?

Best

David
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Old 05-25-2005, 12:39 AM   #2
akiy
 
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Hi David,

If you do come to a conclusion regarding the dojo and the status of their validity, please let me know. I'd like to make sure the data in the AikiWeb Dojo Search Engine is good.

Thanks,

-- Jun

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Old 05-25-2005, 01:15 AM   #3
colin slider
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

the international listing of Ki Society shows only 2 branches in SE Asia - in Singapore and philippines.

you may want to check out the singapore group's website www.ki-aikido.com.sg which has a link to the International Ki Society Directory

regards, colin
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Old 05-25-2005, 01:28 AM   #4
David Yap
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
colin slider wrote:
...you may want to check out the singapore group's website www.ki-aikido.com.sg which has a link to the International Ki Society Directory
Thanks, Colin, for the link. Have been there and they (Ki Aikido Singapore) have stated clearly on their home page that they are not associated with Ki no Kenkyukai Malaysia or Ki no Kenkyukai Internationale.

Regards

David

PS . I forget to mention that *Ki no Kenkyukai Internationale* is not related to K Tohei's *Ki Society* or *Ki no Kenkyukai*.

Last edited by David Yap : 05-25-2005 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 05-25-2005, 01:36 AM   #5
David Yap
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote:
If you do come to a conclusion regarding the dojo and the status of their validity, please let me know. I'd like to make sure the data in the AikiWeb Dojo Search Engine is good.

Thanks,

-- Jun
Will do that, Jun.

Regards
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Old 05-25-2005, 09:31 AM   #6
kironin
 
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

I may have deleted my correspondence with them because I can't find in my old email. (They emailed Kashiwaya Sensei first asking very formally to attend the instructors seminar in Houston.
He had never heard of them and asked me to check in to it.) I explained to them that they needed to affiliated with the Ki Society to attend a seminar for Ki Society instructors.

It all seemed very strange and I sent inquiries to KI Society HQ.
They knew nothing about the group. I did talk to people in southeast Asia about it, and my general impression from making inquiries was the behavior of the group was highly questionable perhaps fraudulent. The use of the name "Ki no Kenkyukai" is clearly an attempt to deceive as they are not in anyway associated with the KNK.

If I find my letters, and refresh my memory I will PM you with more specific information.

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Old 05-25-2005, 10:54 AM   #7
Abasan
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

I saw the listing months back and called some of the so called dojos up. The person answering (when anyone actually bothered answering) didn't even know what aikido was all about. Never heard of the sensei as well.

Last time I was at the Ki HQ in tokyo, they didn't recognise any ki dojo at all in Malaysia.

Safe to say, these dojos are non existent. And Jun should really delete them from the listing.
I do know however that there's this japanese yudansha that practices in japan club who actually does ki aikido. I don't think he's teaching though.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 05-30-2005, 09:43 AM   #8
David Yap
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote:
I saw the listing months back and called some of the so called dojos up. The person answering (when anyone actually bothered answering) didn't even know what aikido was all about. Never heard of the sensei as well.

Last time I was at the Ki HQ in tokyo, they didn't recognise any ki dojo at all in Malaysia.

Safe to say, these dojos are non existent. And Jun should really delete them from the listing.
I do know however that there's this japanese yudansha that practices in japan club who actually does ki aikido. I don't think he's teaching though.
Jun,

I tend to agree with Abas. This thread has been here long enough for any Malaysian to verify the existence of this group and no one has responded so far.

Regards

David Y
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Old 05-30-2005, 02:43 PM   #9
kironin
 
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Just checked dojo search engine, a lot of new entries at the begining of May for Malaysia all related to this website

http://www.geocities.com/ki_aikido_malaysia/index.htm

best as I can tell from reading the website, it appears to be a group on non-Ki society schools (claim former affiliation to Aikikai) that went through some kind of conversion course in 2004 set up by Ki No Kenkyukai Association Internationale (an organization led by a Ki Society 8th dan in Europe that broke off from Ki Society recently).

I have no way of knowing if this relates to the people I talked with or heard about at the end of last year but I do recognize one of the names and that worries me that what's on the website may not be actually the truth. It's all a little weird, but the group seems to be pretty new and seems to have some legitimate connections to Aikido.

I don't see how Jun could fairly remove them without first contacting Ki No Kenkyukai Association Internationale in Europe to check whether this group is truly offficially connected to them or not.

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Old 05-31-2005, 06:10 AM   #10
David Yap
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
... snip...Ki No Kenkyukai Association Internationale (an organization led by a Ki Society 8th dan in Europe that broke off from Ki Society recently).

I have no way of knowing if this relates to the people I talked with or heard about at the end of last year but I do recognize one of the names and that worries me that what's on the website may not be actually the truth. It's all a little weird, but the group seems to be pretty new and seems to have some legitimate connections to Aikido.

I don't see how Jun could fairly remove them without first contacting Ki No Kenkyukai Association Internationale in Europe to check whether this group is truly offficially connected to them or not.
Craig,

Fair enough. It is also stated in the website that Kenjiro Yoshigasaki sensei has had paid an "X" amount of money to K Tohei sensei for the rights to use *Ki No Kenkyukai*. I find strange that such things are actually disclosed on the web.

The instructors appear to have/have had connections to Ki Aikido Singapore, Yoshinkan Aikido and Aikikai. The Chairman of the group also claims to be a cousin of Sonny Loke sensei (Chief Instructor of Yoshinkan Aikido Malaysia). The aikikai instructor whom we contacted claimed that he has not heard of the group or seen its website and requested details of the website.

Why would the person go through the trouble to put details of the group on the web with fictitious or non-existence contacts?

David Y
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Old 05-31-2005, 09:44 AM   #11
kironin
 
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
David Yap wrote:
Why would the person go through the trouble to put details of the group on the web with fictitious or non-existence contacts?

David Y

Bugger if I know.

The website is certainly nicely laid out. Someone went to a lot of trouble to make it. They list locations and schedules in detail. Only way to know is actually go to a class and find out.

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Old 06-07-2005, 08:45 PM   #12
Din
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Hi, I'm zainuddin from Aikikai Malaysia Organisation and am a committee member for the present yr.the present president is Muhammad Haneef Ali5th dan aikikai. If you guys notice, in the website which claims to be Kino Kenkyu Kai Malaysia, it mentions Muhammad Haneef Ali's, name in a wrong spelling but never the less, the description fits my instructor.
To set the record straight for the last 30 yrs, he has been training in hombu style and knows nothing about other styles. Today, he is still active in hombu style and we have just had over AGM in June this yr.
Almost all the names mentioned in the Ki no Kenkyu Kai Malaysia Website are fictitious. Someone must be trying to play a prank, but it may cause some serious implications to therelationship of individuals being framed with hombu dojo and also between the different styles which exists around the world.
To conclude, JUn I would appreciate that if you can put on record that there is no ki No Kenkyu Kai malaysia currently and that website is fake. Even the geographical existense of the dojos mentioned are wrong. E.g. Butterworth town is not in Kedah.
Thank you and keep up the good work at aikiweb guys.
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Old 06-07-2005, 10:34 PM   #13
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
Zainuddin Akhalic wrote:
Hi, I'm zainuddin from Aikikai Malaysia Organisation and am a committee member for the present yr.the present president is Muhammad Haneef Ali5th dan aikikai. If you guys notice, in the website which claims to be Kino Kenkyu Kai Malaysia, it mentions Muhammad Haneef Ali's, name in a wrong spelling but never the less, the description fits my instructor.
To set the record straight for the last 30 yrs, he has been training in hombu style and knows nothing about other styles. Today, he is still active in hombu style and we have just had over AGM in June this yr.
Almost all the names mentioned in the Ki no Kenkyu Kai Malaysia Website are fictitious. Someone must be trying to play a prank, but it may cause some serious implications to therelationship of individuals being framed with hombu dojo and also between the different styles which exists around the world.
To conclude, JUn I would appreciate that if you can put on record that there is no ki No Kenkyu Kai malaysia currently and that website is fake. Even the geographical existense of the dojos mentioned are wrong. E.g. Butterworth town is not in Kedah.
Thank you and keep up the good work at aikiweb guys.
Hello Jun,

Yes, This is how the existence of the web site came to my attention. The supposition was made that a member of Aikikai Malaysia was really a member of the Ki no Kenyukai Malaysia, i,e., that he had ceased to be a member of the Aikikai Malaysia and had joined the other organization. This could have quite serious implications for his good name and standing within the Aikikai.

Do you have any way of assuring yourself of the bona fides of an organization as a condition for putting them on the lists of dojo/organizations on Aikiweb?

Best regards,

Peter Goldsbury

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
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Old 06-07-2005, 11:39 PM   #14
akiy
 
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Hi folks,

Thanks, everyone, for your investigative reports regarding the aforementioned organization. I'll see what I can do shortly to make sure that the AikiWeb Dojo Search Engine shows the proper information.
Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
Do you have any way of assuring yourself of the bona fides of an organization as a condition for putting them on the lists of dojo/organizations on Aikiweb?
The list of dojo that I have is based on what folks submit. There is no way that I can readily nor easily verify the legitimacy of all 3,600+ dojo in the directory, although I do my best. In the long run, though, I rely upon all of your knowledge and willingness to provide information that I can not personally get. That is why I am very appreciative of any and all information that I can get that would improve the dojo search engine -- such as the information in this thread.

So, thank you to everyone who helps keep the AikiWeb Aikido Dojo Search Engine an accurate and valuable database. I appreciate everyone's help.

-- Jun

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Old 06-09-2005, 10:45 PM   #15
David Yap
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
This could have quite serious implications for his good name and standing within the Aikikai.
I believe this was the intention of the person(s) who put up the fictitous Ki no Kenkyukai Malaysia website in Geocities free web. This is not the work of ordinary prankster(s).

The person(s) responsible is/are knowledgeable of both the aikido communities in Malaysia and Singapore. He/she/they went as far to name the senior instructors of various schools practicing in this part of SE Asia. He/she/they really took great effort to make the "Ki no Kenkyukai" instructors and the dojo real. The person(s) appear(s) to be experienced webmaster(s) from the appearance of the website. He/she/they also bother to throw in some "red herrings" with mis-spelled names of persons and wrong location of town. The BIG question is, "What are his/her/their motives behind this intention?".

Aikido is the training of the heart. It looks that the person(s) responsible just do/does not have enough of training.

David Y

Last edited by David Yap : 06-09-2005 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 07-07-2005, 10:04 PM   #16
Din
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

[quote]
Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
I may have deleted my correspondence with them because I can't find in my old email. (They emailed Kashiwaya Sensei first asking very formally to attend the instructors seminar in Houston.
He had never heard of them and asked me to check in to it.) I explained to them that they needed to affiliated with the Ki Society to attend a seminar for Ki Society instructors.]
If you have found the email addrees of the person who requested to be associated with your organisation from the so called KIno---Malaysia, pls forward it to me.
We, the association of Aikikai Malaysia is now being victimised by this issue as the persons behind the fake kino website is using it to frame our president, Mr. M. Haneef, 5th Dan aikido. They forwarded the website to Aikikai Hombu Dojo in the intention that they beliieve it and thus, will derecognise our association.
The unfortunate part is we are now forced to contact these people of which everyone knows we are unable to. This is because the names there are all fake, including the dojos except for M. Haneef's kobukan dojo. We are told to delete M. Haneef's name from the website which we do not even know who it belongs to.
They want to show that M. Haneef as the highest ranking Malaysian Aikidoist of aikikai style has converted to Kino style, whereas he is still active teaching aikikai style.
I am sure even those of yoshinkan and ki society organisations al aorund are also not happy of the way the website is misusing everybodies good name and relationship
As we are unable to contact the website owners , we might go for legal means to track the matter down and I would appreciate that anyone who reads this message and is able to help to do so out of friendship and spirit of harmony.
Everyone is deemed as innocent until proven guilty is surely not the policy here...............
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Old 07-11-2005, 11:35 PM   #17
David Yap
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

[quote=Zainuddin Akhalic]
Quote:
...snip...As we are unable to contact the website owners , we might go for legal means to track the matter down and I would appreciate that anyone who reads this message and is able to help to do so out of friendship and spirit of harmony.
Everyone is deemed as innocent until proven guilty is surely not the policy here...............
Hi Din,

The "prankster" used Geocities, a free web, to host the fictitious Ki no Kenkyukai of Malaysia. S/he even uses a yahoo email for contact. There is no way you can find the person behind this malicious act. I suggest that Haji Haneef write directly to the owners of Geocities (who I think is also Yahoo) as an aggrieved party to remove the offending website.

At this moment, we can only speculate as to who has both the talent and motivation to create problem for Haji Haneef with Aikikai Hombu.

Regards

David Y
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:55 AM   #18
Muhammad Haneef
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

It is unfortunate that some people would abuse the free facilities provided in the net for their own selfish ends and to harm others.The lies posted about me converting from aikikai style aikido to ki no kenkyukai have malicious intentions and was done probably only to discredit me especially before the World Aikikai Hq, Hombu, Tokyo.
For more than thirty years I have only learned aikikai style aikido and no other. I am now 5th Dan, President of Aikikai Malaysia and a member of the Directing Committee of the International Aikido Federation(IAF).
And yet as a result of the the lies and misinformation about me posted in the Ki no kenkyukai web page I was required to defend and proved my "loyalty" to aikikai style aikido.
As David has suggested, I have lodged a complaint to the owners of GeoCities about the abuse of the free space they are providing and to have my name and all information about me in the Ki no kenkyukai web page removed immediately.I hope they will do so asap.
I am at a loss trying to figure out why someone would go to all the trouble of putting up the web page will all the detail information about the leaders, instructors,dojos and dojos' addresses etc just to publish lies about me.
We have tried to contact the people mentioned in the web page and even conducted physical checks on the addresses of the various dojos.Except for me and my dojo, the rest simply do not exist!
The International Department of World Aikido Hq wrote to me and tell me that they find it difficult to believe that someone would publish all those information about me without my consent. They could not believe the bogus web page.They also demanded that I have my name remove from the web page forthwith.
Of course I have written to explain the situation to them and I hope they believe me.
The perpetrators or pranksters responsible for putting up the web page has also been inconsiderate to the feelings of member of the genuine members of the Ki no kenkyukai or the Yoshinkan aikido whose names they freely used in the offending web page.
I fervently hope that these irresponsible people are not practitioners of aikido. If they are they have learned nothing from aikido no matter what rank they are or how good they are in aikido techniques.
I apologise that this has become too long.
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:55 PM   #19
akiy
 
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Hi everyone,

Like always, I appreciate the information that I get from folks from all across the world in keeping the AikiWeb Dojo Search Engine both accurate and up-to-date.

Now, in the case of Ki No Kenkyukai Internationale, does anyone know if the other four dojo in Southeast Asia (Philippines, Singapore, Thailand) which are currently listed in the AikiWeb Dojo Search Engine are accurate? I noticed that on http://www.geocities.com/ki_aikido_malaysia that they have taken all information regarding other dojo outside of those four from their site.

Thanks,

-- Jun

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Old 07-14-2005, 12:58 PM   #20
Michael Holm
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

As a student of Yoshigasaki sensei, I can confirm that the site is a fraud and completely fake.
He have no contacts in Malaysia.
Furthermore he has no personal homepage.

It seems there are an almost identically site just ending with ...Philippines/ - this is also fake

So it would be good if you (Jun) could remove all the sites from Singapore, Thailand and Philippines that claims affiliation with Ki no Kenkyukai Association Internationale. I have already suggested via the "delete service" one from each country deleted - they all referrer to the same 2 fake site.

Sincerly
Michael
http://toitsu.dk/english/

Last edited by Michael Holm : 07-14-2005 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 07-22-2005, 08:13 AM   #21
Din
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

I am grateful that someone from the real KI no Kenkyu Kai has responded with regards to the fake malaysian Ki no site.
Now, I hope that the people who are involved in making the fake website is reading this forum. I would like to tell you people there, we do aikido because of the benefits it brings us especially the opportunity of meeting new friends and strengthening exsiting ones. We also do it because due to its nature of non provoking, non offensiveness, it has helped us in gathering youths and giving them another healthy activity that they can join.For the rest of us, it is a good exercise which everyone can participate at their own pace.
aikido is today an internationally known art which does not have competition and thus it lessens the issues of biaseness in tournaments, etc. Eventhough maybe there are styles which have competition, still the nature of the competition is not about destroying or beating in terms of hitting the other person. they aim to gain excellence through such competition. eventhough we, aikikai stylist do not agree with them, but the universal respect and friendship will always be extended.
I would like to remind those who have been making lies via the fake ki no site that if they are fellow aikidoist, they are only doing more harm to the art regardless of any style that exist in malaysia. the moment you try to destroy your own, you destroy yourself.
Aikikai Malaysia is a formally registered non-profit organisation. it is registered with the governing body of the govt in the country. This is a fact. we strive to help spread the art and to represent it as best as possible for the benefit of the public. the organisation is there to represent Malaysian aikidoists in general to the world.it is the voice of the majority. It is not personal. here, we practice democracy without going against the principles of both aikido and the principles held in our country.
here, people from all walks of life and belief train side by side with tolerance and respect, abiding by the rules, culture and official religion of the country without forcing one another such that they have to violate thier own principles.
This is what an association is all about. To keep all the above good and benefitial to all, not just for the interest of the few which is overcomed with negative intentions will lead to destruction.
so, why would anybody want to make lies such as the fake ki no site.Open your heart and ask yourself.
we the group of instructors in aikikai malaysia, in kobukan dojo which is lead by mr. Muhd. haneef do this not for a living. We do this voluntarily because of the above reasons. Therefore, regardless of what or who out there that wants to cause harm to us, we still train, and train hard we do. we still make friends and we still respect one another.
However, if because of the envy and grudge or whatever negative has come up from our aikido activities, then I really see there is no harmony here anymore is there?
if the people who are spreadng these lies are not aikidoist, then your cowardice and dirty politics is very much a waste of your time. You might as well to something benefitial, no matter how small as a contribution in today's chaotic world.
My hope is that everyone, non aikidoist, students, instructors and those in the various governing bodies of aikido to keep a sincere heart and a clear mind..........always.
especially those who hold authorities, remember all this will stop one day when we die. How nice it is to die contributing and not abusing our power.when we follow, we follow with opened eyes and ready to assist. when we lead, always be just even to those you know not and those you hate, for guilt is harmful to the soul.
sorry for the long note.
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:12 PM   #22
kironin
 
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
Michael Holm wrote:
As a student of Yoshigasaki sensei, I can confirm that the site is a fraud and completely fake.
http://toitsu.dk/english/

just to reiterate

the website(s) of the fictitious group Ki no Kenkyukai Malaysia

has NO connection to the "KI no Kenkyu Kai" otherwise known as the Ki Society which is lead by Koichi Tohei Sensei. KNK HQ has never heard of nor has any group in
Malaysia.

as well as stated above as having no connection to the Ki No Kenkyukai Internationale, a completely separate group lead by Yoshigasaki Sensei in Europe.

Craig Hocker
Head Instructor of Houston Ki Society, USA
a school affiliated with Ki no Kenkyu Kai
http://www.houstonkiaikido.org

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Old 07-22-2005, 04:54 PM   #23
Michael Holm
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
just to reiterate

the website(s) of the fictitious group Ki no Kenkyukai Malaysia

has NO connection to the "KI no Kenkyu Kai" otherwise known as the Ki Society which is lead by Koichi Tohei Sensei. KNK HQ has never heard of nor has any group in
Malaysia.

as well as stated above as having no connection to the Ki No Kenkyukai Internationale, a completely separate group lead by Yoshigasaki Sensei in Europe.

Craig Hocker
Head Instructor of Houston Ki Society, USA
a school affiliated with Ki no Kenkyu Kai
http://www.houstonkiaikido.org
I am in contact with Geocities.com now - and hopefully the sites will be removed soon.

Sincerly
Michael
--
http://toitsu.dk/english/
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Old 08-22-2005, 08:45 AM   #24
KamiKaze_Evolution
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

Quote:
Michael Holm wrote:
I am in contact with Geocities.com now - and hopefully the sites will be removed soon.

Sincerly
Michael
--
http://toitsu.dk/english/
KNK Association Internationale still have bogus list in Singapore & Thailand, i still remember those dojos are associated to bogus KNK of Malaysia as they publish in their own webpage. Information about these things in Singapore and Thailand were published in webiste bogus KNK Malaysia.

Finally, i just like to wish Jun fixes it.

Have a nice day!

KamiKaze
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:01 PM   #25
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Re: Ki no Kenkyukai in Malaysia

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Anthony Wong wrote:
Finally, i just like to wish Jun fixes it.
As always, I appreciate any and all help in keeping the AikiWeb Dojo Search Engine accurate. Although I do my best to find out this type of information that you want "fixed," I only have so many hours in the day...

If you have information regarding a dojo which is not accurately displaying its information (including affiliation), please use the administrative interface to edit or modify the information. You can find the administrative interface here:

http://www.aikiweb.com/search/admin.html

Your help is greatly appreciated!

-- Jun

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