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Old 11-03-2005, 04:30 PM   #126
tenshinaikidoka
 
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Quote:
Matthew Materazzi wrote:
Aikido is great as a means to practice a martial art, have fun, stay active, etc... God created things like that for us to enjoy, but do not be fooled or tricked, my fellow believers, into thinking that it will somehow help your status with the Almighty. If that were the case, then Christ's death was meaningless, or it only did half the job.

I was wondering who on here got the idea that Aikido was somehow helping thier status with god? I do not recall anyone typing that, unless I over looked something!!!!!
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Old 11-03-2005, 04:37 PM   #127
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
This addressed to James davis Jr.: "James, I was talking to a judge because my estranged wife, who was a fundamentalist Christian tried to end my visitation with my children because I was taking them to aikido classes. (The judge ruled in my favor and also ok'd bowing).
In gassho
Congrats on your being able to see your kids. My old roommate was completely railroaded by the county court here, and is lucky to be able to see his daughter at all. His wife said some stuff that wasn't true, and really screwed stuff up for a bunch of people for quite some time. Hope everything's goin' okay for you.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 11-03-2005, 05:21 PM   #128
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Matthew,

I have no problem with your beliefs!

Can you explain to me from you position what you feel you get out of aikido?

You state that "god created aikido simply for enjoyment, to have fun, and to stay active"

That doesn't seem to be inline the beliefs or the hopes of the founder of Aikido. How do you reconcile the inherent goals of aikdo as a "DO" (way) with your beliefs? O'sensei and his founding students certainly had more hopes for aikido than "fun" and "health".

couldn't aikido be a methodology to help you better understand people, the world around you, an allegory for peace? that attempts to reconcile, and bring about harmony in the world?

Wouldn't that put you one step closer to understanding the message that Jesus preached and wished that everyone would embrace? and If so, wouldn't that bring you closer to Jesus and to God?

How does all this relate to your beliefs?

Thanks for your time and discussion.
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Old 11-03-2005, 05:53 PM   #129
mazmonsters
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Brandon, my friend, you want me to show you where the statements are? I will.
Brian Keesler writes: "Nonsense just plain nonsense. Of all the martial arts Aikido lends itself to aide the Christian in the pursuit of his/her faith IMHO. The positive energy and harmony of aikido mix well the Christ's message."
To believe that there is something that can "aide...with the pursuit of faith." is a lie. Faith is a gift from God, not of any of our works, i.e. "pursuit." It is not something that man can manipulate, either increasing or lessening. Faith is 100 percent sanctified by God, by Grace through faith...no matter what the behaviour of the believer...he is still a believer. And it is God who works all things according to His purpose. Remember the story of the prodigal son? Do you not realize that it was the Grace of God allowing that believer to fall into the pig pen and the same Grace that brought him home?
Pierre Rood writes: "The not-harming intention is a way to try to 'love your ennemy', to try to react in a forgiving way to people searching (unconscious of with intent) the conflict as a primary way of communication." The whole idea of "trying to love your enemy" reflects a work that is intended to be done by the believer in order to please God...this again, a lie. How does one please God? By faith alone. A gift He freely gives. Christ loves our enemies, and through the believer, He continues to do that work. This is done by faith.
Joseph Keith writes: "I guess what I'm saying is that you can believe what you want as long as the basis of that belief is love and harmony...if it's God, Jesus, or whatever your focus...it comes down to the same thing." This is a common error that people associate with true Christianity. This is perverted Christianity. This states that whatever you believe, whether it is Jesus, God, buddha, Allah, yourself...whatever you believe, as long as it holds the basis of love and harmony, then you are right. If it works for you, go for it. This is the lie that sends people to hell, and the reason is that they are counting themselves "good." There is none who are good, close to good, or good enough. It is the lie that is emersed in self-building up, self esteem, self righteousness, good works, etc... When judgement day comes to one of these people, they will stand before the throne of God, and He will say either "Welcome Home," or "Depart from Me, for I never knew you." Will He say welcome home to someone based on how they lived their life? If the answer is yes, then how much is enough? How good do we have to try to be? If He does not see Jesus, then He sees sin.
Miha Sinkovec writes: "I strongly believe in Jesus, in his works, his mission, his message, nevertheless, I understand his message about him being the only way to the Lord somewhat less literally - to me Jesus equals Unconditional Love (that was, IMHO, his fundamental message and essence). And by becoming of this essence (or coming as close as possible to it) we also have a chance of getting into heaven." Do I need to elaborate on this? "by becoming of this essence (or coming close as possible to it) we also have a chance of getting into heaven." This is a false doctrine, enshrouded in Eastern Philosophy...but again, it relies on self righteousness, works righteousness, and all those filthy rags.
Blue Beckham wrote: "I am new to Aikido, (three months) but researched many styles for over year until I found the style that fit me, and clearly it is Aikido. I am also a Christian, albeit a very poor one. I have been lurking for several months on this board, and finally registered today to add my POV to this subject. " To him I say: you are a very fine Christian, if you truly believe! There is no such thing as a "poor Christian" as far as behavior goes. Remember, brothers!!! That which is of the flesh is flesh. If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior, then you no longer live, but Christ lives in you. Do not burden yourselves with the law. We are dead to the law. Blue is basing his standings as a Christian, and ultimately his standings with God, on his behavior. This is a lie straight from the pit of hell. We are judged on our faith (and not how much or how little of it we have, for that is a behavior-based thing), not on our flesh. Blue, if you are reading this, God is working His will in you, through you, for His glory...how do I know this? He said it...if you truly believe in His Son.
Michael Riehle writes: "Ki is what happens when your mind and body (and spirit) are perfectly coordinated.

This really addresses the Christian concern if they listen to it. Ki - whatever else is happening - can't exist unless all parts of your being are in perfect agreement." Again, this speaks to the human effort. Being in harmony all at once, with mind body and spirit is cool, but it has nothing to do with your relationship with God. If it does happen in the life of the believer, it is because God has initiated it, conducted it, for His glory, not for your own. Michael also goes on to write, "So, if your mind is trying to do good, but your body (or spirit) wishes to do ill, you are not coordinated and ki cannot exist. So, to some extent, it's your personal responsibility to work this out. Is your spirit essentially evil? If so, your ki will be as well. Is your spirit essentially good? If so, your ki will be as well. I believe that none of them is essentially good or evil, but you can make choices to make yourself good or evil and the results are the same." These are again, all lies with roots in human effort. This is why God willingly came to Earth and willingly went to the cross. He took care of the sin problem so that we can obtain heaven as a gift, not something we work at.
Do you see how all of these things relate, Brandon? If I offended anyone here, that was not my intent. If I spelled anyone's name wrong, I apologize. The truth is narrow, it is right, and it is from God. Everything else is a lie...no matter how many people believe it.
In Him,
Matthew
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Old 11-03-2005, 06:14 PM   #130
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Kevin,
glad to answer your specific questions. I no longer practice aikido, due to the fact that it was causing me to see the practice of aikido as something more than just to have fun, light-heartedness, or sport. I began to truly see how Morihei Ueshiba saw the purpose for aikido. I started to believe it. I myself began to believe that I could become "good", "clean", and close to perfect...just as Christ was perfect. With that, I saw that quite possibly, I would no longer need Jesus as the Mediator between me and God the Father. For I saw that it might be possible to become one with God without Christ. Oh what decieving lies!!! This is impossible, and I tell you the truth: unless Morihei Ueshiba repented on his death bed and believed in Jesus Christ as his personal savior, he is in hell. I do not practice aikido anymore because I have no love for the art anylonger. I started to understand that in order to be good in aikido, one must become empty, un-attached to all earthly things, and obtain a zen-state of mind, aware at all times of all things. I was becoming one with nature, with my surroundings, with "God." This was all a lie, and but for the Grace of the living God, I would have fallen. You see, Satan wants us to believe that we can become good on our own. He comes as an angel of light, the Bible tells us, not as an evil creature with horns and a tail. He comes disguised to decieve the nations. To tell people it is possible to achieve harmony with all of our fellow men by doing something on our own accord. Jesus plainly said that He came not to bring peace, but a sword...and that He would divide mother and daughter, father and son, brother and sister, husband and wife, all people for His name's sake. That means that some people will believe in Him alone as Lord and Savior, and others will not. Christ is the great stumbling block to mankind. He is the only One who says that, "You aren't good enough to make it to heaven, so I have been punished for you, so that you can have it as a gift." The great mistake, and the great lie is to try to be who Jesus was, thinking that your behavior will earn you a spot in heaven. The great truth is knowing who He was, knowing your own sin, and believing that He died in your place, so that He earned you a spot in heaven. Do you see the difference?
This, my friend, is the Gospel.
In Christ,
Matthew
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Old 11-03-2005, 06:18 PM   #131
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Matthew,

I don't think you have offended anyone, only tried to explain your position.

A thought comes to my mind....

If being "good" or "close to" or a "part of" god is not important, AND if "doing good deeds" does not matter, AND faith and belief is all that is required, and all things that happen are "gifts from god" or "god working through it"...

One thing that concerns me is that it would seem easy to justify your actions to do harm, kill, or injure another being because "god" was working through me and said it was "okay" to do this.

I understand that the Bible and the 10 commandments say "thou shalt not...", but if faith is all that is important and deeds do not count for squat, then why not sit around on the couch all day playing Nintendo until your time is up?"

I quess what is hard for me is that it seems that we as societies and cultures throughout history justify our actions through divine intervention. We state wars because we are "God's chosen people:, we discriminated against blacks in the U.S. because many said the bible said they were inferior as a race and were not the "chosen people". The list goes on!

Please don't take this as an attack or an argument, I honestly would like to hear your perspective on these things, it is something I have struggled with reconciling over the years. I simply can't accept that doing good is not a requirement as a human being.

Or do I have your position all wrong entirely??
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Old 11-03-2005, 06:31 PM   #132
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Matthew,

Looks like we crossed post! If I would have read your post prior to writing my last one, it would be irrelevant!

You answered my questions!

While I don't share your beliefs...what I do appreciate is your honesty and understanding of yourself.

What confuses me, is not the beliefs of a person, but how they sometimes people contradict themselves by saying one thing yet they practice something else! It would be very confusing for me.

That was my thoughts, how could you spend your time practicing aikido if this was your beliefs! It doesn't seem to fit to me.

What I find noble, is that aikido worked for you. It brought you to an understanding between you and God! You are being honest with yourself, and your beliefs!
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Old 11-03-2005, 06:38 PM   #133
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Hey Kevin,
No offense taken
A true believer does all that God has planned out for him to do. This is faith. If I begin sitting around playing Nintendo all day in my underwear, I have the freedom in Christ to do this. However, God will probably pull me away from that lifestyle, as He has done in the past. And to let you know, God did call Israel to go into battle more than 2,000 years ago. He chose David to kill Goliath and conquer the phillistines...and it was His plan, which all relates to the history of having David as a king, and Jesus to come from that Kingly lineage. Israel was His chosen nation, the Jews were His beloved, but when they rejected Jesus as the Christ, that was the end of their covnenet with God. We now live in the covenent of Grace, and I do not know if it is God who calls these men in our time to go to war or not...I am not God, and He says, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, My ways not your ways." Allow me to say that it is never ok to harm someone, kill, or injure, and here on earth, there will be consequences. "You shall reap what you sow." This speaks about life here on earth. But this is not my home. Heaven is my home, and my kingdom. This is why I will never, unless truly called by God, ralley at an abortion clinic, march for civil rights, or appeal to Congress to put the Ten Commandments back in school. I live by faith, and that means that I believe it's in God's hands. My life is in His hands. All lives of the believers are in His hands.
Let me make it clear for you Kevin: It is impossible to be good. It is impossible to please God, become close to Him or to become "part" of Him without Jesus. Someone might "feel" like they are doing good, according to their feelings, and other people's kind words, and someone may "feel" that they are getting closer to God, because they are relying on their emotional state or what have you...but these are nothing more than feelings! Human emotions, which are a gift of God, but He plainly states how He is pleased with you: by Faith in what Jesus did for you on the Cross at Calvary. Jesus was the great sacrifice, once and for all. He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the entire world. Thus it is not sin which separates us from God...what separates us from Him is belief, or rather, lack of it.
Hope that clears up some things.
-Matt
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Old 11-03-2005, 06:40 PM   #134
mazmonsters
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Hey Kevin,
got your post. Yes, God did use aikido to show me the false sense of righteousness in it. I know that you do not share my beliefs, so I would just ask you this one question. Who was Jesus?
Thanks for the back and forth
-Matt
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Old 11-03-2005, 07:00 PM   #135
3girls
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Mathew, I am sorry you feel that what I said is a lie especially since you do not know what is in my heart. Faith is not a gift from god salvation and redemption are gifts form god. Faith in Christ is the way through the doorway of heaven, and yes there are times where that faith is challenged by the enemy. The apostle Paul writes to accept those Christians that are weak in faith implying different degrees within faith. Even Peter struggled with his faith, Did he not deny Christ three times and does not this indicate a weakness in faith yet he was one of the greatest apostles. Even Christ proclaims we should have the faith of a child meaning childlike faith is unquestioning again the implication for degrees in faith. Does not prayer bring us closer to god which in turn does that closeness not bolster our love for him. After a sermon you may hear that hits close to home does that not inspire you and you leave with a profound sense of awareness. Could that awareness also be synonyms with a uplift of your faith. Blessed are those that have not seen yet believe....This is faith not a gift but an acceptance of Christ as savior. Again words to bolster a believers faith:Put on all of Gods amour so that you will be able to stand against the Devil. Also from the apostle Paul What about me? Have I been faithful? Well it matters very little what anyone thinks.....My conscience is clear but that is not what matters. It is the lord himself who will examine me and decide.
For you from 1Corinthians: while knowledge may make us feel important, it is love that really builds the church, Anyone who claims to know all the answers does not know very much.

Again one of my favorite quote :Jhn 20:29 Blessed are those that have not seen yet belive.
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:04 PM   #136
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Matt said this:

"To believe that there is something that can "aide...with the pursuit of faith." is a lie. Faith is a gift from God, not of any of our works, i.e. "pursuit." It is not something that man can manipulate, either increasing or lessening. Faith is 100 percent sanctified by God, by Grace through faith...no matter what the behaviour of the believer...he is still a believer."

The Holy Name is not what Matt thinks it is, or for that matter what I think it is.

In fact, it just "IS." "Tell them 'I AM' sent you." The Lawgiver was told to say . And "before Abraham was, I AM"

Being has but one Center, which is the point of Aikido, however you choose to describe it.

Faith is indispensable, and faith is free. But behavior does matter, but not in the way Matt or presumes. Effort, or more properly, will, is required, not to be saved or to achieve faith, but to remove the impediments we have ourselves imposed on accepting that gift. It is ours to choose or leave. We make it easier or harder on ourselves as we choose.

A tree is God's gift, but once I cut it down, even if it is necessary that I do so, I have made myself a real mess to clean up in my yard. God gave me the tree. I made the mess of it; God leaves it to me to clean up. He can always get more trees. He'll get me back one way or the other in the end.

Our effort is to deepen ourselves, not our conscious understanding to thereby be saved, but to work out our willing abandonment of the need to consciously understand. Faith is an abandonment of belief as it is an abandonment of everything but trust in God.

We have ourselves have stacked the limbs and brush in the path. We will make our way only with difficulty. Instead of the straight way provided, we have caused ourselves to clamber over the limbs and twigs, and thorns even, that now block it. We will have many scrapes, scratches and much cursing at the trouble of our own making.

Sadly, we can also by this same means impede others and ensnare the unwary in our own brushpile.

Matt also said:

"unless Morihei Ueshiba repented on his death bed and believed in Jesus Christ as his personal savior, he is in hell. I do not practice aikido anymore because I have no love for the art anylonger."

This saddens me in too many ways to describe.
This too, presumes too much upon the mind and mercy of God, which none can know and whose will and purpose even the Adversary serves. One can never tire of reading Job. "With him are strength and wisdom; the deceived and the deceiver are his."

Faith is not belief and belief is not faith. You can believe that Jesus is the Son of God or full of green cheese, and it will not matter in the face of six guys with tire irons. There is no time to think "That one: ikkyo; that one: sankyo, that one: errrrrrr WHACK Jwhackwhackwhackwhackwhackwhackwhack!

Belief is a tool as techniques are tools. But they are nothing without the will to use them, whihc only faith provides. Belief allows us to practice our faith, as technique alows us to practice our aikido. But the chisel is not the stone; the finger is not the moon.

It is faith, an ineffable trust, and not any system or assertion of positive belief that gets you through, whether you get hit and have to suffer mightily to survive your injuries or you manage to survive unscathed. That irimi leap will save you because of faith to do it, not belief in the effectiveness of this, that, or any of our techniques, or our beliefs.

There is no time for belief when it really counts. We must be prepared abandon all, even our lives, even our most cherished beliefs in such circumstances. To hang on to such things as comfort, security, and a need for happiness in certain belief is an illusion. To believe otherwise is to lack faith.

Faith only will keep us whole. In spite of all belief.


Now, has anyone seen my chainsaw?

Pax Christi

Erick Mead
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:31 PM   #137
Mark Uttech
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Wow this thread goes all over the place! I think I'll stick with aikido and buddhism, they did not just save my life once; they keep saving it.
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Old 11-04-2005, 07:04 AM   #138
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Mathew has forgotten a couple important points for you:
1: Judge not lest you be by that same measure.
2: Remove the log in your own eye before you talk about the stick
in your neighbors.
Like so many Christian's that I have come across Mathew in you desire to convert and correct you present the message as I am righteous and anyone else is damned. I agree that the doorway is through Christ, but once we have accepted Christ and repented from our sins we are mandated to perform good deeds. No this does not replace or adjudicate our sin but by doing so we glorify god and lead by example, walk the talk so to speak.
Faith and belief will not stop the punch,knife, or bullet. As Christ said to Satan when he was tempted in the forest "test not thy god".
Like most people who study theology I learn about and study other beliefs besides Christianity I have found Buddhism to be the most profound outside of my Christian faith. I apply many of these Ideals to my life and it exacerbates my walk with Christ and no this will not lead me to hell. Since everyone who studies theology takes classes in other beliefs.

My friend I would suggest that you embrace the concept of:

I am not your judge we all have a choice to believe or not to believe I would hope that you embrace Christ as I have if not: "evolutionist we got love for you to, but we're breaking down walls seeking out the truth....I gotta pray for you."(Pillar Music) This is love for all people Christian or not the message of Christ is belief, repentance, love, and tolerance.

BK
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Old 11-04-2005, 10:54 AM   #139
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Jesus said, "Whatever you do for the least of mine, you do for me."
When I stand before Him to be judged, I hope I don't hear the words, "I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was hungry and you did not feed me..."

Help people. Whether you believe in God or not, help them. Love your neighbors.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 11-04-2005, 01:08 PM   #140
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Wow!!! I like the thought process on this thread. If I may plant a small comment in here....I am a christian. I also take Christ as my savior. But each culture has a higher power that they pray to and hope to see in the after life. So I would say that. although I am a Christian, does that mean that Christianity is the only religion that will take someone to god? I would say no, what did they do before Christianity?

To say that O'Sensei is "in hell" seems ignorant because, god gave cultures different ways of beleiving. If you look at the religions closely, you will notice that there are similarities more than differences. Now the differences are definatley there, but look at some of the basic principles. I don't know, and maybe I am alone in my thinking, but if you truly beleive, no matter your religion, you are saved!!!!! My interpretation only. Take it for what it is!!!
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Old 11-04-2005, 01:22 PM   #141
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

I usually hear a spiritual question from a student or potential student. It sounds very much like what I've read here so here's my reposnse. Let me preface this by saying:
1. I am Christian
2. I choose to address this response to those that are truly interested in opening their minds. Aristotle said it best when he spoke about rhetoric's purpose to sway those that are open to debate, not those that are convinced otherwise.

Aikido is an Eastern martial art in a country that practices Eastern religion. The Founder was a very religious individual. Aikido has generic religious undertones that supplement most religious beliefs ( including you heathens!). In practice, you can choose to view these undertones as part of your religious beliefs, or historical philosophy, or both. If you can't resolve that personal issue, then likely you will be uncomfortable practicing aikido.

Some of us can incorporate our beliefs into aikido, some can't. Neither is failure, just a decision.
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Old 11-04-2005, 01:48 PM   #142
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Good post Jon!

Brandon,

I think the issue is that if you are a fundamentalist that has boiled your religion down to a very, very basic premise, then it becomes a "black and white" "cut and dry" logic issue for you. "all that believe and accept Jesus go to heaven, all that don't go to hell".

While I don't subscribe to this flavor of Christianity, I can certainly respect the logic of it once you commit to it.

My questions to Matt were aimed at this, as I have never been able to understand how a fundamentalist Christan could reconcile their beliefs against the practice of something like aikido...so I am alway curious how they see the world. Not as a point to argue, but to try and better understand their beliefs and how it works.

I guess the big sticking point for me is that the view is too simplistic, and it assumes away many things (such as what you mention about people from other countries and cultures). It also, I feverently believe is a major reason we have conflict in our world. Because you end up with the "believers and the non-believers". If compassion, kindness, goodness have no place in the equation...the tools to peace...AND also, that in this belief structure, peace serves no purpose because either you have faith in God and accept Jesus as your savior, or you don't matter as you will be "left behind".

Please, I am not accusing ANYONE here of this level of devaluation of mankind and humanity...but it is something that you must be very careful with in fundamentalism. It seems to me to be too easy to justify acts of violence and war...hurricanes, typhoons as "acts of God"...that they deserve it because they are "heathens" and have not accepted Jesus and "god is angry at them".

I have heard my Good Neighbor Jerry Falwell (I am from Lynchburg and grew up with his kids in the neighborhood), say this (only later to appologize for it).

Now Dr. Falwell is a good man, I don't subscribe to his view points, or philosphy, but I will tell you he practices what he preaches and for that I respect him!

Okay, I am regressing and going waaay off now.

Guys, where am I getting it wrong?

My beliefs tend to take the "middle road" approach to alot of this, and I am geniunely interested to hear how many of you feel how the goals and objectives of aikido fit (or don't) with your religous and spiritual beliefs...I think it is a very important thing to discuss! For me, it is paramount to God that we humans learn how to "get along", I think we are here either through design or chance, and it is important that we reduce suffering in the world. I think once we get it right, then and only then will we be in heaven or nirvana. (can ya tell I am a practicing buddhist )
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Old 11-04-2005, 03:03 PM   #143
tenshinaikidoka
 
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

I guess my point was that each culture has it's own "religion" and way to get to thier heaven. I was trying to point out that Christianity is not the only way, such as Aikido is not the only way. But I think ultimatley we end up in the same place regardless of our culture. I get what your saying though Kevin.

I find for myself, my Christianity has come out more since my serious study of Aikido. Not sure why, since my dojo does not delve into the religious side of the art, just the technical side (self defense). But this is not for everyone, jsut as my own religious beleifs are not for everyeone. But I am not so hardcore as to think that only those that beleive in Christ will go to heaven. And before I get pummled by other Chrsitians, what I mean is, god, Allah, Buddah whomever, loves us all and if our love is proved, then we will go where we are chosen to go.

By me breaking down the basics of religion, I was only trying to say that religions do have similarities. I do not think there is a balck and white however, and maybe this is just my free thinking ways, but that is how I feel and what I beleive. Anyway, nice to have a good healthy conversation, I like this topic and different points of view!!!!
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Old 11-04-2005, 04:04 PM   #144
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

First of all religions as a whole have the same premise, and mirror each other in many ways. I have much respect for anyone who is devout in their beliefs as long as they are not harmful. As I have said my faith is in Christ and the path to heaven is only through Christ, However I do not force my beliefs on others we are granted free choice by design as it should be. I encourage people who I speak with to lean about Christ and embrace him but it is entirely up to the individual, I know many wonderful Buddhist, Jews,and taoist and have much respect for them and their devotion to their religion.
So, lets first forget the word religion and replace it with relationship so that the stain of religion is removed from the equation. By stain I mean when the topic of religion is put forward people tend to shy away due to the negative connotation it invokes. Many people have been killed in the name of religion yet this is not the message of Christ,Buddha or most mainstream religions for that matter. Which leaves us to examine the individual, we are the sole representative of our given faith, when we have an encounter with someone that person will, right or wrong judge our belief based on how we act at that moment. That moment is all it takes and our religion has either been justly represented or stained it is up to us to set the example.
Then how can we,in my case Christians participate in a martial art developed in by an eastern culture and a different belief system with out tainting my relationship with god or more importantly how can it enhance that relationship?
Lets Analise a few key points:
1)As a Christian my relationship and belief in Christ is paramount to
my salvation. Will participating in a martial art change that? NO!
2)Will the understanding and knowledge of other beliefs alter that
belief? NO!
What is important to remember that as long as participation does not cause us to further sin or change/alter our belief than no our relationship with Christ is intact.
God wants a relationship with all his children, I dint believe he hates us or wants us to come harm he wants us to be happy. Like I as a father want my children to prosper and live happy lives. Just like children who are not able to understand the concept of God and Christ those that have never been exposed in my opinion receive a free pass if you do not know how can you profess your faith, that does not deserve punishment/damnation.

I had to shorten some of this so forgive me if some of this seems incomplete

BK
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Old 11-04-2005, 04:22 PM   #145
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Brandon and Brian, Good post! Thanks!
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Old 11-04-2005, 06:37 PM   #146
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Kevin,
you did not answer my question. Who was Jesus? If you don't want to answer, it's fine.
To Brian Keesler, I say these things:
With the Holy Spirit as my teacher, how can I "accept Christ as you have?" Christ has accepted me. God chooses, not the other way around. You say we have free will, yes, we have the choice to reject Christ, but if we believe, it is by Grace through faith ( a gift freely rendered from God) not of ourselves, so that we might not boast. You say, "I remember when I 'chose Christ' as my saviour, repented and believed." Do you think that this came from you, a sinful man? Or do you not realize that this was a gift given to you by the Holy Spirit? Look through the Scriptures and find me one verse that says "We chose God."
You also said these things: Mathew has forgotten a couple important points for you:
1: Judge not lest you be by that same measure.
2: Remove the log in your own eye before you talk about the stick
in your neighbors.
Like so many Christian's that I have come across Mathew in you desire to convert and correct you present the message as I am righteous and anyone else is damned. I agree that the doorway is through Christ, but once we have accepted Christ and repented from our sins we are mandated to perform good deeds. No this does not replace or adjudicate our sin but by doing so we glorify god and lead by example, walk the talk so to speak.
My dear friend, how am I judging in the manner of which you speak? I would be doing so if I boasted of my own intelligence or my own good works! Don't you understand? If I am judging, I am judging the truth from the lies. This is not of my own thoughts or ways, for how can sinful man ever want to know the real God, through Christ Jesus? This comes from The Holy Spirit, so that we cannot boast saying, "I came to God...I chose Him...I did something really good and pure and noble"...no, these are all boastful works of man's ability to do anything to honor God, rendering in self righteousness. God chose me, He did something really good, pure and noble, and by me believing it or "accepting it" (which by the way, there is no terms in the Bible that say we "accept" Christ, there is, however, many terms which say He chose us). For you to say we are "mandated" to do good works because it shows as an example, I would say the God has good works prepared for us to do, and by faith, we do these things. Let me also say that our behavior is never acceptable to God from the "flesh", but always acceptable to Him from our faith. True Christians do not go around, causing trouble, engaging willfully into a sinful life, or any of the things most Christians worry about doing. We do good things, because God is the one doing them through us, so that He gets the glory, not us...that's why it is always better if we do not even know the good works that are going on in our lives, because when we do know that, we tend to want to get involved, and "help God out." Then, God sees us trying to please Him from our flesh, and we mess things up, cause we're human!!!! I never made any claims throughout my entire writings that in any possible way indicate that "I am righteouss and all else are damned"...did you actually read or just skim through? I said I am NOT righteouss, only Christ. This is the only thing I boast in. The Cross of Christ. Brian, you also said " Just like children who are not able to understand the concept of God and Christ those that have never been exposed in my opinion receive a free pass if you do not know how can you profess your faith, that does not deserve punishment/damnation." I believe that children are innocent until the age that they are able to recognize sin in their lives, and that age is different for each child, so we agree on that, however, God says that "All will have a chance to know the truth." God will present Christ to everyone in some manner before they die, so that they will have the chance to recieve or reject His truth.


The others that claim to be Christians, who do not believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven, I ask you- what makes you a Christian?
I do not claim to have all the answers, I do however know that it is only Jesus Christ that saves the world from it's way to hell, and to reject that message is to reject eternal life. O'Sensei knew who Jesus was, and he said, "Now is the time to train, we no longer can afford to put our lives in the hands of Christ, buddha or any other teacher." That is what would send him to hell, because in that statement, he claimed that it is possible to achieve heaven without Jesus. Unless he repented, he is suffering.
In Christ Jesus,
Matt
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Old 11-04-2005, 06:45 PM   #147
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

[quote=Kevin Leavitt]Good post Jon!


Please, I am not accusing ANYONE here of this level of devaluation of mankind and humanity...but it is something that you must be very careful with in fundamentalism. It seems to me to be too easy to justify acts of violence and war...hurricanes, typhoons as "acts of God"...that they deserve it because they are "heathens" and have not accepted Jesus and "god is angry at them".

-


I'm sorry ,but being a christian ,living in Christ is fundamentalism,
in its true sense and meaning.You can not bend and twist
the word of God to your own liking.
And christianity is not about tolerance - that is a buddhist concept.
Christianity is about forgiveness,tolerance - no !
-

God is not angry anymore , He put his anger along with sin on
Jesus Christ at the moment he died on the cross,the suffering Jesus must have felt when he died is unbearable to think of,
still there immense joy at the other end , thank God !
This does not mean that what God has planned and promised in the past is over and history - far from it,
but the angry God that was before Christ died,has let his true nature
become revealed in Christ the resurrcted.
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Old 11-05-2005, 05:01 AM   #148
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Thanks for the response....it is helpful.

What place does tolerance play in all of this? Is peace a worthwile goal? Does it fit into the equation anywhere? If so how?

Many churches, i'd say most do good deeds and humanitarian efforts play a big role in their organizations. How does humanitarism and compassion fit in to the equation?

Thanks!
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Old 11-05-2005, 05:57 AM   #149
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Has anyone seen Kingdom of Heaven, the film with Orlando Bloom as the hero? I am using it as part of a course in comparative culture (in comparison with two Japanese films by Yoji Yamada: Tasogare Seibe and Kakushiken: Oni no Tsume).

To judge from their essays, my (Japanese) students are struck by the intolerance and 'absolute' values displayed by some Muslims and some Christians in Kingdom of Heaven and by the similarities of the issues faced by the heroes in each film. I argued that the intolerance and the 'absolute' values displayed by the Tokugawa Bakufu were very similar and actually led to the crux of both Japanese films. My students found this hard to accept, since they had been led to believe that Christians and Muslims allowed for no exceptions, as a result of human weakness. They found less hard to accept the absoluteness of the rule requiring 'weak' samurai to commit seppuku.

I do not believe that aikido has any connection whatever with Christianity. It is a Japanese martial art and has to be understood as such. Of course, atheists, agnostics, and people of any religious denonimation can practise aikido, but aikido training does not, in itself, have any intrinsic connection with religious beliefs or practices. I believe that this is also true of the Founder.

Best regards,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 11-05-2005, 06:11 AM   #150
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Well !

From a christian standpoint you should develop ,Patience,understanding,wisdom,love,sound judgment,but not tolerance - tolerance is acceptance of sin , this is not Godly !
God does not tolerate sin - he does however forgive by grace !!

Peace in Christ is a matter of the heart ,you will never be in a peaceful relationship with the world,
especially when you live with Christ and you have declared war on he who is in the world !

Regarding humanitarianism , I'd rather say that humanism is a rotten fruit,
compassion is a fine starting point ,but without actions what will it accomplish !

I hope others can elaborate on compassion as I need to study more !
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