Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-05-2005, 09:50 AM   #1
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
starting your own aikido style

How much training did the big guys have to be qualified to break off and start their own aikido?

For instance, it is my understanding that it was pretty much expected for students like Shioda sensei to eventually leave and start their own system. How long had he spent with Osensei - or what rank was he - before this became expected?

When Tomiki sensei or Tohei sensei started their own thing, what level, number of years with extensive training, etc. did they have. (Ok I heard that Tohei sensei was promoted to 10th dan).

How about Saito sensei? To the best of my knowledge he never broke away. Can someone elaborate on all of this stuff?

Where is the line for what would be acceptable to do this? For instance, what if you trained in the USAF for 25 years and decided to make your own form of aikido at say 5th dan and combine it Modern Arnis? Further, if someone from that school (I just made this up on the spot) decides to break off and create their own aikido system after 10 years and shodan is that acceptable (meaning would you even consider it aikido?). What makes up "aikido proper"?

How far can this be extended? How about if people from a martial arts organizations give you honorary rank in aikido? As an aside, what's the deal with that anyway? It seems to me that you should at least have to be a teacher in aikido to do that. (Otherwise I might just start giving people honorary Medical Degrees from Yale and Harvard, even-though I have no authority to do so.) Still an aside, would you accept it? (I wouldn't care so much about kyu ranks.) Back on track, where is the line at starting your own aikido? If a person given honorary aikido rank by karate folks started their own version of "aikido" would there be any chance - what-so-ever of it being legitimate? If so, how?

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 08-05-2005 at 09:59 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 11:26 AM   #2
jonreading
 
jonreading's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido South (formerly Emory Aikikai)
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 892
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

I have thought about the same question smyself. Mostly, I've thought about it after reading an outrageous ad in a martial arts magazine or seeing something online. After doing some historical research, here's what I have so far:
1. Japanese combat specialization was historically a familial obligation. That is, clans passed fighting skills down through the generations to preserve the young fighting men of the clan. Eventually, some clans became more proficient and expanded their "style" of fighting. I believe the Imperial goverment also stepped in at some point as classified the fighting styles and clans that specialized in the styles. Hence the codifciation and classification of the various fighting systems and styles.
2. The development of a "style" begins with a divergance of principles and techniques from the parent art. Eventually, if the style stands the tests of time and application it will develop a name to describe the style and the parent art will recognize the style.

To me, that means several things:
1. I don't believe anyone can "start" a style. A style should be a natural digression process that may take many years.
2. The rank and experience of the founder of a new style is mostly irrelevant as long as the instructor has effectively diverged from the parent style and established a clear relationship of the similarities and differences.

A lot of instructors develop their own personal influence in aikido, but I think this sometimes get confused with a "style." A style endures, personality doesn't. Think of bellbottoms...
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 12:47 PM   #3
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Quote:
Think of bellbottoms.
Uh, thanks, but I'd rather not...

R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 12:52 PM   #4
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Well, I actually think about "snake oil", and how easy it is to sell delusion. But it is a serious question where the line should be drawn (if it can be). I wish I knew the history of the other arts better.

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 01:48 PM   #5
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
How much training did the big guys have to be qualified to break off and start their own aikido?

For instance, it is my understanding that it was pretty much expected for students like Shioda sensei to eventually leave and start their own system. How long had he spent with Osensei - or what rank was he - before this became expected?

When Tomiki sensei or Tohei sensei started their own thing, what level, number of years with extensive training, etc. did they have. (Ok I heard that Tohei sensei was promoted to 10th dan).

How about Saito sensei? To the best of my knowledge he never broke away. Can someone elaborate on all of this stuff?
As I understand it, Shioda had been promoted to ninth dan per his autobiography before he started his own organization that developed into his own "style". He started with Ueshiba in 1932 and started his own organization in 1955.

Tomiki trained from 1925 until he left and formed his own organization and style in the mid fifties. Tomiki was the first person to be promoted to what became known as eighth dan by Ueshiba.

Tohei began with Ueshiba in 1939 and was promoted eighth dan in 1952 and tenth dan in 1970 after Ueshiba died. He started his own organization in 1971 to teach his style.

Saito began training with Ueshiba in 1946 and I don't know if he ever felt that he started an organization but, I think one grew around him none the less. After his death two organizations have grown out of his teaching methods and style.

Many other senior third and fourth generation deshi have developed their own style of practice and teaching and have seperate organizations or "semi-separate" organizations that are still politically connected to the Ueshiba ha Aikikai.

Offshoots from major organizations happen naturally. The test of time will tell the tale of which groups survive and thrive.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 02:12 PM   #6
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

That's really good and much appreciated info, thanks.

Quote:
Offshoots from major organizations happen naturally. The test of time will tell the tale of which groups survive and thrive.
I keep getting this message, but I'm not feeling that I'm making my resort strong enough. No matter how good your aikido is in your dojo, I'm certain that I could move to your area, start up a non-sensical "aikido" dojo that sells delusion and take so many of your would-be new students that you would feel it in your pocket book. Over time, I could build up such a _different_ reputation for what "aikido" is in that area that it would continue to hurt your business if not cripple it (if you don't own your building, etc.). I could teach a bunch of students how to open up their branches and do the same thing. I'm quite certain that would stand the test of time, and would not be what pretty much everyone on this board would ever call aikido.

How can we address this aspect of my question beyond attempting to use the "test of time"? Is there another test, say a "test of principle" that can be applied to decide if a dojo is doing what might be considered "aikido proper"?

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 08-05-2005 at 02:16 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 02:27 PM   #7
Adam Alexander
Dojo: none currently
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 499
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
How can we address this aspect of my question beyond attempting to use the "test of time"? Is there another test, say a "test of principle" that can be applied to decide if a dojo is doing what might be considered "aikido proper"?
Outside of copywriting "Aikido," I don't think there's anything you can do.

But, since I'm thinking about it...Seems like the only thing you're really talking about protecting is the fame that the name Aikido has developed.

I mean, if I started teaching (if I were qualified), Aikido, but called it Jean-do, it'd still be Aikido...the idea and techniques there...just not a name.

To me, it just boils down to a name. However, I think book publishers have developed a hell of a shield against that name being misused too far...unless the students don't read...In that case, what's the difference?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 02:35 PM   #8
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Okay, if you were going to copywrite the name "aikido", and someone applied to use the name for their dojo (currently calling their art Jean-do) what would you look for to ensure it merited the name aikido?

(I think I could tell by feel.)

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 02:39 PM   #9
Adam Alexander
Dojo: none currently
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 499
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Expensive gifts

I don't know to be honest with you. What I called Aikido when I began is a whole lot different than what it is now.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 02:53 PM   #10
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Yeah....get on the mat. then vote with your feet.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 04:04 PM   #11
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
I keep getting this message, but I'm not feeling that I'm making my resort strong enough. No matter how good your aikido is in your dojo, I'm certain that I could move to your area, start up a non-sensical "aikido" dojo that sells delusion and take so many of your would-be new students that you would feel it in your pocket book. Over time, I could build up such a _different_ reputation for what "aikido" is in that area that it would continue to hurt your business if not cripple it (if you don't own your building, etc.). I could teach a bunch of students how to open up their branches and do the same thing. I'm quite certain that would stand the test of time, and would not be what pretty much everyone on this board would ever call aikido.

How can we address this aspect of my question beyond attempting to use the "test of time"? Is there another test, say a "test of principle" that can be applied to decide if a dojo is doing what might be considered "aikido proper"?
The test of "principle" is: Do your best. Those that can tell the difference will know the difference and, as Ron says, vote with their feet. It happens all of the time, all over the world.

On a personal note... No one can hurt my business, because I don't have a business. I have a practice. I know at least a couple of dozen people that will continue to do their practice with me for the rest of my life and continue for the rest of their life. That's enough.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 04:35 PM   #12
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

On a semi-related note: I was at a jobcentre a few months ago and I saw a stack of leaflets for a karate union. They were basically looking for non-qaulified people to come and open karate classes. They would teach you karate and then you would teach it at 'your' class. They were paying these 'instructors' 19000 a year. Bizaare.

I've heard of/seen crap teaching in this country but never experianced these sort of shams...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 06:02 PM   #13
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,422
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

On a related note, I would say that the validity of one's martial art - be that Aikido or something else - should always be able to beam through any kind of fraud and/or scam that even the slickest business tricks may attempt. For me, if my Aikido as it is practiced and taught is not challenge enough to something that may be fake, then I would be more interested in how I can get my Aikido to function with more integrity than how I can get the fake-other to have more integrity.

For me, as an indepdent dojo in town with three other Aikido schools that are all federated (Aikikai, Ki Society, and Aikido Kenkyukai) I, as a teacher, have only what I am and what I can do (which is supposed to be the same thing). I knew that when I forfeited my own federation allegiance and the rank and title that went with it. For me, what was real was beyond all that dressing - I still hold true to this position.

A related story: A while back, one of these instructors told one of my students that his Aikido wasn't real because his dojo (our dojo) wasn't federated. He was at that time only a 5th or 4th kyu, and he said right back to this 5th dan, "Yeah, right, whatever." She said, "No really, you have no rank." He said, "I don't train to get rank." She shut up.

This student is still training with me, and along with his skill becoming greater and greater each year, he has since gone on gone on to even become an active member of our city SWAT team, etc.

My advice: Do your thing, do it the best you can. Put all your energy into that. Since most folks do not ever really bother to do what they are doing the best you can, you can often distinguish yourself from them and from what they are doing just by doing your own thing (as best you can).

dmv

Last edited by senshincenter : 08-05-2005 at 06:04 PM.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 06:36 PM   #14
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

' My advice: Do your thing, do it the best you can. Put all your energy into that. Since most folks do not ever really bother to do what they are doing the best you can, you can often distinguish yourself from them and from what they are doing just by doing your own thing (as best you can). '

Word.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 08:20 PM   #15
Roy
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 118
Canada
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Everybody has their own style of Aikido already anyway. If someone were to have good credentials, why not start a new Aikido? Aikido is dynamic, and needs to evolve continuously anyway.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 08:33 PM   #16
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,422
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Quote:
Nick Simpson wrote:
' My advice: Do your thing, do it the best you can. Put all your energy into that. Since most folks do not ever really bother to do what they are doing the best you can, you can often distinguish yourself from them and from what they are doing just by doing your own thing (as best you can). '

Word.

Yikes what a lame typo - let's see if I can write that again since it is bugging so much to not have seen it before:

(second try)

"My advice: Do your thing, do it the best you can. Put all your energy into that. Since most folks do not ever really bother to do what they are doing as best they can, you can often distinguish yourself from them and from what they are doing just by doing your own thing (as best you can)."

david

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 09:47 PM   #17
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Quote:
Roy Leclair wrote:
Everybody has their own style of Aikido already anyway. If someone were to have good credentials, why not start a new Aikido? Aikido is dynamic, and needs to evolve continuously anyway.
I disagree. When we first start to learn budo (no matter what style or art) we have to learn how to practice, as we go along with practice by imitating our seniors we can also learn how to learn. We then get to a stage where we know how to practice and we're doing it...and then sometimes we get everything together and we really DO aikido or whatever, but it was an accident. We hold memories of this event and it begins to happen more and as time goes along more and more. We then get to the place where we can really DO aikido whenever we want. We can (and should), along with the DOING, still practice and experiment, etc. But we can DO aikido for real, not imitate, but create in each instant, the real thing.

This beginning of this last stage is when I think we really begin to develop our own original style. Not when you're a beginner.

This is true in anything you learn well, such as computer programming, medicine, fine art, music, ballet, whatever.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 10:02 PM   #18
Roy
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 118
Canada
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Chuck,

Does this have anything to do with that Enlightenment ka-ka?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 10:08 PM   #19
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

I have no idea what enlightenment is... however, I do know what caca is. I have dealt with it for a long time now and don't even mind.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 10:25 PM   #20
Roy
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 118
Canada
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Hey now that I can understand
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 06:02 AM   #21
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

some great posts, particularly yours Chuck.
Someone, I think it may have been Jean, alluded to the fact that a bit of resarch on the part of the students would soon make them quesion something they were doing that was fraudulant.
I agree.
But I think there's a danger that people like us, net savvy, like to hang out online and debate budo, read MA websites as well etc. overestimate the amount of reading alot of beginning students in particular do. I'm constantly amazed when talking to white and even brown belts how little they know both about Aikido beyond our dojo and budo in general.
I will sometimes allude to things in a class like musashi, or other styles, bits and pieces like that and am constantly dismayed with the blank stares. May have to start setting homework assignments....

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 07:59 AM   #22
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Quote:
Roy Leclair wrote:
If someone were to have good credentials, why not start a new Aikido?
What are good credentials?!

David, I completely understand the what it feels like to leave an organization, and in independant dojo (I've done that myself a couple times as I decided my goals were out of alignment.). What level (for lack of a better word) were you when you decided to go it alone (as opposed to finding someone else to follow?)

(Chuck, I feel the same way. But many people don't own their own space, and so have to pay the rent/mortgage bills, they are vulnerable. )

Also if some karate organization decided to give you honoray rank in aikido, would you accept it?

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 10:41 AM   #23
Roy
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 118
Canada
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Rob Liberti,

"What are good credentials?!"

Ofcoures, I don't really know the answer to this question. but here me out!! I know of some Aikido Dojos that are run by 3rd Dans, whom themselves earned there grading in about 4-6 years !? I have seen Dojos that are ran by, so called self-appointed (within their own organization, where they are the presidents etc...) 7-8 Dans. Rarely, do you see Dojos that are ran by true 7-8th Dans(at least not in Canada), guys/gals that have been lucky enough to have been studying the same MA from the age of 9-13 years old. Even rarer are the Dojos ran by lineage from Ueshiba himself. So, I don;t expect to find a Dojo everywhere here is Canada where I can train under an "Aikido master." Having said all that, there is a new 7th dan instructor (yoshinkan) that opened a new Dojo just 5 minutes from where I live. believe me this is a fluke!! With great enthusiasm I went to check out the club. They had the best mating and decor, period! But, I found to Aikido to be very watered down, and plain same old, same old. The instructors did not seem to really focus on the students, for on any given class there were 30-40 bodies on the mats. So, I still study under a guy who has a big heart for Aikido ( a bouncer/doorman at local bars) who rents a cheap space at a local Scouts hall. He teaches a mix of Aikido, with a slight "legal if applied," Jujitsu edge, along with ground fighting, in a respectable formal setting/atmosphere. There is more one-on-one, and his classes I find are just more interesting and realistic! He does mention to new prospective members that he does not have great credentials, just a long time devotion for MAs, and many of them don't join because of that. but you know, I doubt they will learn more elsewhere. So why not start-up a club, and let the loyalty of the members decide the outcome?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 12:40 PM   #24
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,422
United_States
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Hi Rob,

Wow! That is a tough question to answer. Like others are saying, I think there are many organic elements involved here -- many things that have to do with happy accidents and/or with simply letting the maturing process do its thing, letting time pass naturally.

If I go back and describe something, it will only be post hoc and in some sense fabricated and prone to leaving some key things out -- I imagine. However, it is a fair question and one I have no problem answering, as long as the answer can be understood as merely applying to my person and my experience only. I do not wish to suggest, that in mentioning my particulars, I have set up some kind of universal scale by which one can or should do such things as seeking independence. There are many ways to do and achieve what I feel I was able to do and achieve.

You are right to point out that the word "level" is the key word to define here -- that it is the word most likely to be treated in totally different ways by nearly everyone of us. For myself, I generally approach this word in the following manner: I am only interested in a level of consistency, between thought, action, and word; a level of consistency out of which a particular proficiency can be born. This is of course related to a maturing process that takes place within Time, but this consistency comes to affect Time in such a way that Time is actually used (e.g. becoming skilled) by the person in question; rather than that person being used by Time (e.g. just getting older). As Time relates to this level of consistency and as this level of consistency comes to give Time a positive sense of passing, I am only interested in hours spent training -- not years. Here is a short something I have written on this topic -- as it has played out in my conversations with students:

http://www.senshincenter.com/pages/w.../howoften.html

In that sense, from my point of view, from what I had done, I reached a level of where I had trained enough hours that I had begun to achieve a level of consistency between thought, word, and action, in such a way that Time passing meant only that I would become more consistent in these things. When I went at it alone, it was not because I thought I was heading down a different path. In fact, I do not really let this concern me at all -- certainly not as a motivational factor. If a difference is becoming present, truthfully, it always feels more like it is there because it is someone else that is opting to do something different -- being different is not something I seek out to do. My independence was more about the fact that I could tell that there was a path before me, a good one, no matter where I was or what I was called. I knew where to walk, and I was no longer in need of anyone telling me where that was. I could see it, feel it, I was able to touch it. It was real.

From the standard point of view (e.g. a federated point of view), that happened like around 8 years of Aikido training with vapors of nidan around me (I never was into rank, so my teachers -- Chiba or Iseri - used to just bestow it upon me after some great amount of time passed, etc.). From what I consider, a more real point of view, my path became clear to me after 15 years of discipleship under a Kenpo Master Teacher, (which still continues), 8 years of discipleship under three Aikido Master Teachers, several years living in Japan, a Bachelors Degree, a Master Degree, and Doctorate Candidacy in Japanese Religious and Cultural History -- with all of those years passing by with about 6-8 hours a day dedicated to physical training (something that still continues today).

In short:

Question: When does our Path become legitimately open to us at an individual level?

Answer: When we are able to legitimately devote ourselves to it.

Question: How do we know when our devotions are legitimate?

Answer: When they marked with a consistency of thought, action, and word.

Question: How do we gain this consistency?

Answer: When we devote ourselves in hours spent -- when we concern ourselves with both the actual time practicing (versus, for example, the number of years that we have owned a gi and/or paid dues) and with the actual time not practicing.

Question: In this way we open a path before us?

Answer: No, in this way the Path opens itself before us.

Hope that helps, please always feel free to ask more, and comment, as you feel inspired. No worries.

Thanks,
dmv

Last edited by senshincenter : 08-06-2005 at 12:44 PM.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 01:35 PM   #25
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Offline
Re: starting your own aikido style

Hi Roy
I've got some sympathy for what you're saying. Sometimes the highest rank is not the best school to go to. I'm facing a similar situation with BJJ. There's not alot of instruction in my neck of the woods so I can choose between a couple of black belts or another org with a blue and purple in town and my own study with a black belt that visits every few months.
On the face of it the local black belts would seem to be the obvious choice. But while they are nice guys with heaps of knowledge, they don't have a set up thats particularly structured to bring people along. There's no clear syllabus. Whereas the other org is the John Will/Machado one which is almost defined by clear guidelines both within a technique and from tech to tech, so I find I get much more bang for my training time with them and their methodology.

Here's the rub though as far as I'm concerned. It would always be very important to me that whoever I'm learning from in any art is in some sense continuing to learn themselves. This is a good start for measuring legitimacy imo. I know of several individuals who have formed their own organisations, but retain links into (sometimes several) other orgs that assist their own further study by giving them access to higher ranks. Or, where they are close to the pinnacle of their art they are challanging themselve with concepts form other arts. But their journey continues. If on the other hand you have someone who's split off on their own are now the head of their own orgs and have stopped learning altogether, that would set off strong alarm bells.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 07:27 PM
Early Aikido vs Modern Aikido Dom_Shodan General 33 12-07-2006 01:47 AM
aikido and competition ewodaj General 129 08-10-2006 10:43 AM
Starting - Aikido Mark Holloway General 13 08-05-2005 12:00 PM
Aki-Jitsu The One General 40 04-01-2001 03:41 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:43 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate