Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Open Discussions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-19-2005, 05:43 AM   #1
Taliesin
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Offline
George Galloway in Washington

What do es everybody think about Mr Galloway's recent performance in front of the Senate.

I'd love to know
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 06:46 AM   #2
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

Quote:
David Chalk wrote:
What do es everybody think about Mr Galloway's recent performance in front of the Senate.

I'd love to know
He has a cool accent.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 12:13 PM   #3
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
Location: Sheffield, UK
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 524
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

I often find him extremely annoying, he can be arrogant, smug and pompous, often all at the same time.

But his performance in front of the Senate committee was magnificent. I particularly enjoyed the dig at Donald Rumsfeld when he was dealing with the accusation that he'd met Saddam Hussein on "many occasions".

What does concern me about this whole story, and hasn't been tackled at all in any of the news coverage that I've seen is this:

It seems likely that the documents cited in the accusations against Galloway are forged, as were the ones used by the Daily Telegraph (to their cost), and I think its extremely unlikely that the allegations are true.

But there have also been references to statements from former high ranking members of Saddam's regime, obtained in "interview", which implicate Galloway. Its well documented that prisoners interrogated under torture tend to say whatever they think their interrogators want to hear. I'd like to hear what exactly were the circumstances of those "interviews".

Quite apart from the moral case against it (which is compelling enough), torture is a profoundly flawed method of intelligence gathering, because the victims will always have a tendency to confirm their interrogator's suspiscions, regardless of whether they are correct or not. Lets not even go into the damage that is done to the reputation of the US (and other members of the 'coalition'), or the propaganda victory that is given to our enemies when we seem to be morally no better than they are.

Sean
x
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 08:42 PM   #4
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

Give 'em hell, George!

But, I have heard very little about the whole peformance from US sources. Most of it is from England, sadly. But with the state of today's media: what can you expect?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 04:27 AM   #5
makuchg
 
makuchg's Avatar
Dojo: FL Aikido Center
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 84
United_States
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

Quote:
Sean Orchard wrote:
I often find him extremely annoying, he can be arrogant, smug and pompous, often all at the same time.
He should have felt right at home in the Senate than, since he was among his own kind

Gregory Makuch
Wandering Ronin
Spring Hill, FL
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2005, 05:34 PM   #6
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
Location: California
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 289
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

I found it very refreshing. So often when someone (from either party) gets up and spews a long-winded load of total bull, they aren't challenged on it; the next person gets up and says something like, 'I respectfully disagree with my colleague from Tennessee..."

To hear someone call it like they see it was fabulous.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 06:09 PM   #7
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

The official Senate position is now that...George Galloway did not appear and no testimony was given.

http://hsgac.senate.gov/index.cfm?Fu...&HearingID=232

(panel 2, near end of page)

Argue about that.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 06:50 PM   #8
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

Quote:
Mark Johnston wrote:
The official Senate position is now that...George Galloway did not appear and no testimony was given.

http://hsgac.senate.gov/index.cfm?Fu...&HearingID=232

(panel 2, near end of page)

Argue about that.
OK.

From what I can tell, only Panel 3 members didn't testify: George Galloway didn't submit a statement.

But, he certainly is in the archived webcast (listening to it, now).
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 07:03 PM   #9
dan guthrie
Dojo: Aikido of SLO
Location: Morro Bay
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 139
United_States
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

Quote:
Sean Orchard wrote:
I often find him extremely annoying, he can be arrogant, smug and pompous, often all at the same time.

But his performance in front of the Senate committee was magnificent. I particularly enjoyed the dig at Donald Rumsfeld when he was dealing with the accusation that he'd met Saddam Hussein on "many occasions".

What does concern me about this whole story, and hasn't been tackled at all in any of the news coverage that I've seen is this:

It seems likely that the documents cited in the accusations against Galloway are forged, as were the ones used by the Daily Telegraph (to their cost), and I think its extremely unlikely that the allegations are true.

But there have also been references to statements from former high ranking members of Saddam's regime, obtained in "interview", which implicate Galloway. Its well documented that prisoners interrogated under torture tend to say whatever they think their interrogators want to hear. I'd like to hear what exactly were the circumstances of those "interviews".

Quite apart from the moral case against it (which is compelling enough), torture is a profoundly flawed method of intelligence gathering, because the victims will always have a tendency to confirm their interrogator's suspicions, regardless of whether they are correct or not. Lets not even go into the damage that is done to the reputation of the US (and other members of the 'coalition'), or the propaganda victory that is given to our enemies when we seem to be morally no better than they are.

Sean
x
Galloway made Coleman look like he wandered off the set of a 50's sitcom. I'm surprised that every Senator, left and right, wasn't prepared for him at all.
On the other hand Galloway avoided answering some questions and deflected others. I have a hard time trusting anyone who was personally cozy with Hussein, and that includes Rumsfeld.

Galloway doesn't have to prove his innocence but I wouldn't be shocked, I tell you shocked, if he wasn't reprimanded for the appearance of bribery. I wouldn't be shocked if he was guilty, either.
On torture: I think the U.S. has ruined the possibility of a fine reputation. On moral grounds alone we should never have given the appearance of being vague on torture. On practical grounds: the information isn't reliable and no one's ever given me a good answer on what we do with Billy Smith, torturer, when he goes back to his dry cleaning business in Boise, Idaho.

Later edit: from the Wikipedia on Galloway emphasis mine

Galloway opposed the 1991 Gulf War and was critical of the effect the subsequent sanctions had on the people of Iraq. He visited Iraq several times and met senior government figures. His involvement earned him the nickname the "member for Baghdad Central". In 1994, Galloway faced some of his strongest criticism on his return from a Middle-Eastern visit during which he had met Saddam Hussein ostensibly "to try and bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war". At the meeting he reported the support given to Saddam by the people of the Gaza Strip and also infamously ended this speech with the phrase "Sir: I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability ."[3] (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Galloway)

In the speech (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Galloway), Galloway clearly is addressing Saddam in support of his fight against U.N. sanctions, the policies of the U.S. and U.K. governments, and Israel ("hatta al-nasr, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-Quds [preceding words in Arabic which mean until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem]"). When later pressed to explain why he would make such a speech, he said that it was for the benefit of the Iraqi people collectively, and he has expressed his regret over the flattering remarks within the speech directed at the Iraqi dictator.

Last edited by dan guthrie : 05-22-2005 at 07:09 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2005, 02:25 AM   #10
Taliesin
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

So the Senate's view appears to be - we didn't like what he said - therefore it doesn't count. That's not just standards slipping - that's standards in freefall
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2005, 02:35 AM   #11
Yann Golanski
 
Yann Golanski's Avatar
Dojo: York Shodokan Aikido
Location: York, United Kingdom.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 406
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

I found this rather interesting article on Mr galloway from http://windsofchange.net so I thought I'd add it to the discussion.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...kyjkk.asp?pg=1

The people who understand, understand prefectly.
yann@york-aikido.org York Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2005, 07:37 AM   #12
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

Well Hitchens has no credibility as far as many people are concerned in the UK. Galloway nailed him when they met at the Senate, so while Hitchens claims to have some info on Galloway it was the same stuff refuted (totally) in his testimony.

Hitchen's Weekly 'Standard' piece "Saddam's favourite MP goes to Washington" where he tries to blacken Galloway's name basically contains all the same innuendo that the Senate Committee tried to throw at him. For fans only.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2005, 11:22 AM   #13
Taliesin
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

Hitchen's has less credibility that Donald Rumsfelt(spl?) assuming that is actually possible
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 09:37 AM   #14
dan guthrie
Dojo: Aikido of SLO
Location: Morro Bay
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 139
United_States
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

Reviving an old thread but it is news.
http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=2167542005
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 01:52 PM   #15
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

The Senate were never going to let it lie when they had been bitch-slapped by Galloway.

Allowing Galloway a public trial in America will be highly enjoyable for the rest of us.

Blair got Galloway expelled from the Labour Party over here in the UK - the Muslims love Galloway as do the left, he took an important seat here at the last election against a pro-war Labour MP after he was expelled. Won some major libel actions too - against The Christian Science Monitor and UK papers too.

Those papers were saying the same thing as the Senate (and parts of the UK government). And when it went to trial it didn't go very far before Galloway won by a knockout.

It's all very well for US Senators (or UK Ministers) to make accusations behind the safe wall of privelege, when it gets to court it's a different matter.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 05:07 PM   #16
dan guthrie
Dojo: Aikido of SLO
Location: Morro Bay
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 139
United_States
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

From what I've heard this may not go any farther. The Senate has to refer it to the Justice Dept. - they may not - and then the Justice Dept. may not do anything. As far as I know the worst thing the Senate can accuse Galloway of is contempt of Congress but I could be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2005, 03:31 PM   #17
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: George Galloway in Washington

Quote:
Dan Guthrie wrote:
From what I've heard this may not go any farther. The Senate has to refer it to the Justice Dept. - they may not - and then the Justice Dept. may not do anything. As far as I know the worst thing the Senate can accuse Galloway of is contempt of Congress but I could be wrong.

Volker & Coleman are in agreement.

From Coleman:
"Sen. Coleman personally sent Galloway a letter requesting an interview, and offered to fly staff to London in order to conduct the interview. Mr. Galloway declined both offers, and instead, offered to respond to written questions. Galloway denied any involvement whatsoever in any Oil-for-Food transaction in his written responses.

Under the Federal False Statements Statute, it is unlawful for a witness to give false testimony before Congress on a material matter where that witness does so willfully and under oath, and the Federal Obstruction of Congressional Proceedings Statute prohibits a wide variety of obstructive conduct that influences, obstructs, or impedes a Congressional inquiry. "I am reviewing the evidence with Senator Levin to determine the propriety of referring this matter to the Department of Justice," said Coleman.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Sword DVD Set from George Ledyard AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 08-24-2005 04:45 PM
Review: George Ledyard Seminar at Shindai AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 06-22-2005 05:17 PM
Article: Ultimate Martial Art? by George S. Ledyard AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 14 05-28-2005 01:56 PM
Article: Transmission in Aikido, Part II by George S. Ledyard AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 8 01-14-2005 12:56 AM
Randori Seminar with George Ledyard Sensei aikibaka131 Seminars 11 10-24-2003 12:30 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:01 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate