Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-14-2005, 10:03 AM   #1
ticktick
Dojo: Kyu Shin Kan/ England
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4
England
Offline
Zanshin development

I was wondering if you can help me by giving me any ideas/advice on how to develop my Zanshin, as when I do a technique, I am so focused on the movement/technique I am doing, that my peripheral vision is non-existant and i bump into someone or something.

Any Advice and ideas greatly welcome
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2005, 10:17 AM   #2
James Davis
 
James Davis's Avatar
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

Try sitting down in seiza by yourself. Extend your vision to the floor about five feet in front of you. Practice Kokyu ho (deep breathing) and just let your eyes take in the entirety of the half of the room that's in front of you. After you've gotten better at this, start using you peripheral everywhere you go, just walking around tending to business as usual. Just like techniques, you can learn this by practice. Good luck!

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2005, 10:26 AM   #3
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,628
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

Great question!
I think it's hard to develop Zanshin (the continuing mind) with out working from the beginning of the technique. Start out with the right mind set. Reach out to your partner, feel where he is and where you are in space and time. Then connect to your partner, feel how he feels, standing there. Connect and move with your partner as you do the technique, don't lose site of him. It's easy when doing the technique to get warped up in small details, and to focus on what YOU are doing, instead of how it feels for him to be receiving the technique. By staying focused on him, as well as yourself, and the feeling of the technique as a whole, you will not get so bogged down with extraneous thought, and shut down to the experience (getting stuck in your head). As you finish the technique, stay with the feeling, don't just shut down, and think about what's coming next, stay with the feeling of what just happened, and what is happening right now.

Just try and stay mindful, and it will do wonders for everything, your kokyu, your musubi, your awase, and your zanshin.

-Chris Hein

Last edited by ChrisHein : 10-14-2005 at 10:28 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2005, 12:19 PM   #4
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,711
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

IMHO, relax, breathe, and walk through the waza slowly while looking through the uke letting your gaze (not focus) take in what's beyond them.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2005, 01:03 PM   #5
Robert Rumpf
Dojo: Academy of Zen and the Ways
Location: Kailua, HI
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 164
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

When you walk and/or drive around in your daily life, try to pay extra attention to what's going on around you, as well as just where you are going or what you are doing.

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2005, 01:31 PM   #6
John Boswell
 
John Boswell's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

Shihan are very visably looking around when they do randori and the like. Satome, Ikeda, Kato all do I know. Once you have your uke under control, you then have time to take a breath, look around... see what's going on!

Just thought I'd mention this as well.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2005, 03:29 PM   #7
Mats Alritzson
Dojo: Malmö Aikidoklubb
Location: Malmö
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 27
Sweden
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

1st bokken suburi. http://glimmer.blogs.com/glimmerscap...k28/index.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2005, 10:16 AM   #8
ticktick
Dojo: Kyu Shin Kan/ England
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4
England
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

Thanks to all who have replied so far. The ideas posted have given me much to think about and try.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2005, 11:13 AM   #9
John Matsushima
 
John Matsushima's Avatar
Location: Miura, Japan
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 226
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

I believe you have misunderstood the term zanshin. The link recommended by Mats Alritzson is a good explanation for zanshin. Zanshin has nothing to do with awareness. If it is your awareness that you wish to improve, then I have a few suggestions. Start with yourself. Be as they say "mindful" of your own thoughts, feelings, and emotions. Once you have done that, expand your awareness to the thoughts, feelings, emotions and needs of others. In Japan, there is a saying, "ki ga kiku" which refers to the awareness of the needs of others, and "ki ga tsukau" which means taking care of others. For example, noticing that someone might be thirsty and ask them if they would like some water, or observing that someone is feeling left out of the conversation, and trying to include them, or noticing that a stranger looks lost and trying to help them. When I learned not to be so self-centered and look out for others, my awareness increased ten-fold.
You have to learn to look at the world in a different way. Forget about trying to use your peripheral vision, awareness is more than what you can see with your eyes. Learn to appreciate everything in the world around you. Go outside and listen to the birds sing and don't think, just listen. Notice the fine wood grain on the floor. Feel the warm sunlight raising the temperature of your body. Smell your food before you eat it. Watch the way butterflies play together and the random movement of dragonflies.
If you can learn to see the good in life, then you will also see the bad...if you can see the inanimate objects, then you will also that which is moving...if you can see the balance, then you can see the imbalance...if you can see that the glass is half full, then you will also see that it is half empty.

Learn to see that which is not there, and all that is.

Last edited by John Matsushima : 10-16-2005 at 11:16 AM. Reason: I was aware of a mistake

-John Matsushima

My blog on Japanese culture
http://onecorneroftheplanetinjapan.blogspot.jp/
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 08:44 AM   #10
Ed Shockley
Dojo: aikikai of Philadelphia
Location: philadelphia
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 84
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

My understanding of Zanshin seems to be the same as Mr. Matsushima. It is the focused completion of a technique. Please correct me if I am wrong on this because I have used that concept often when teaching class. If my understanding is correct then I concur with Mats Alritzen (above) who suggests that weapons work is invaluable. (And I believe this applies both to my zanshin as flowing ki at completion of a technique and a general maai awareness). Something about a weapon and the potential for harm causes everyone to instantly focus both on themselves, their partner and the bokken swinging through the air near them. It also is extremely obvious when a cut is incomplete and that practice then carries over into open hand technique. All of this aside, the simple, redundant, answer is, "Keep practicing." Every problem yields to a newer, more subtle one, as the throws mount.

Enjoy
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 09:21 AM   #11
John Matsushima
 
John Matsushima's Avatar
Location: Miura, Japan
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 226
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

Quote:
Ed Shockley wrote:
zanshin as flowing ki at completion of a technique
I think that describes zanshin perfectly. A runner doesn't stop at the finish line, but keeps going even though his task has been completed. There are ripples in the pond long after a pebble has been dropped...................................

-John Matsushima

My blog on Japanese culture
http://onecorneroftheplanetinjapan.blogspot.jp/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 01:38 AM   #12
doronin
Location: Canada
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 45
Offline
Question Zanshin?

John, do you mind to elaborate your understanding of Zanshin a little more ? I'm a little confused how it happened that Zanshin so commonly associated with awareness, if it has nothing to do with that?

Thanks!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 03:05 AM   #13
Ian Upstone
Location: Sussex
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 80
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

My understanding (and please let me know if I'm wrong!) is that zanshin means 'lingering mind' and is used after a technique. I used to think it was a case of just 'showing uke who's boss!' as shite would stand in a strong posture after throwing uke, especially if uke ends up at shite's feet.

In simplistic terms it means that you don't turn your back on your enemy after you pin or throw them, as they may well get up again! I suppose this is the 'awareness' element of zanshin that is being discussed, (confused with?) although in more general terms, rather than specifically after a technique.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 08:05 AM   #14
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,711
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

Quote:
Ian Upstone wrote:
My understanding (and please let me know if I'm wrong!) is that zanshin means 'lingering mind' and is used after a technique.
IMHO, musubi means connection.

Simply, the mental and energy connection begins before actual physical contact and continues after the physical contact ends. This later part is what I think of as zanshin.

Its like a spectrum of connectedness.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 08:53 AM   #15
John Matsushima
 
John Matsushima's Avatar
Location: Miura, Japan
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 226
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin?

Quote:
Dmitry Doronin wrote:
John, do you mind to elaborate your understanding of Zanshin a little more ? I'm a little confused how it happened that Zanshin so commonly associated with awareness, if it has nothing to do with that?

Thanks!!
Lost in translation. This is the best way I can describe many concepts, ideas, and principles which become confusing and distorted as we try to study them. I am myself guilty of analyzing a Japanese term in a way that my western mind comes to twist the truth. For example, Aikido doesn't exactly mean "the way of harmony" or "the way of peace"; it is more accurate to say "the way of connection" If you are a good student and wish to study more, then I encourage you to learn Japanese; study the language, the culture, and make some Japanese friends. When you can "walk in another's shoes" then you may be able to see things a bit clearer. Zanshin, as translated directly from the Kanji means "lingering spirit/body". There are other words for awareness, and zanshin is not one of them. On the mat, zanshin is usually demonstrated as mentioned by others in this thread, that when uke "finishes" a technique, he/she remains in a certain posture for a few seconds. The more important question you should ask is "WHY do we do this?" I encourage you to think about this deeply and research it more yourself.

-John Matsushima

My blog on Japanese culture
http://onecorneroftheplanetinjapan.blogspot.jp/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 09:01 AM   #16
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,479
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

There is a training technique in expanding awareness that I have been taught and practiced. It goes like this.

Uketachi stands square with a shinai or bokken in gedan (low position to front).

Two Uchitachi stand on either side with shinai or bokken (preferably shinai) held in jodan (high overhead).

Uketachi holds his focus directly to the front at all times, preferably facing a wall some distance away. Uketachi tells both Uchitachi to shift back until uketachi can see that they are there, but cannot see the swords raised over their heads.

Then uchitachi each exchange glances to allow one or the other to strike the chest (mune) of uchitachi with big, wide horizontal cuts. (shinai, I said, or lightly with bokken)

Start slow. Uketachi turns hips strongly to the side of the strike raising to seigan (extended middle position), and then turns hips slightly inside the cut to receive and block it. Then return to front position gedan. Strikes should be random, and uchitachi should not try to hide or feint the cut at all. Cuts can be shortened and speeded up as Uketachi progresses.

Alternatively, if Ukeitachi is not yet prepared or is uncomfortable to block or sweep inside of a strike, then a tenkan on the foot away from the attacker can take them outside the arc of the cut in time with the strike. Get uketachi comfortable with this and then have uketachi begin blocking or sweeping inside with a pivot on both feet in place.

Once this method is learned then you graduate uketachi to receive yokomenuchi with an inside turning block, and then shomenuchi, with a rising vertical sweep (murabashi).

Cordially,
Erick Mead
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 09:16 AM   #17
Ian Upstone
Location: Sussex
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 80
Offline
Re: Zanshin?

Quote:
John Matsushima wrote:
when uke "finishes" a technique, he/she remains in a certain posture for a few seconds.
John, not meaning to be picky but do you mean uke in this instance?

Even if you didn't, it still reminds me of those instances when zanshin is applied in techniques where uke does not end up out of range. I've seen (and been) uke 'held' in position, by shite's 'dominance' (if that's the correct word)

Holding a strong and positive posture at this time has also certainly helped development of throws etc. For example, when uke is thrown and hangs on, shite does not go tumbling down with them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 09:27 AM   #18
John Matsushima
 
John Matsushima's Avatar
Location: Miura, Japan
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 226
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin?

Ian, thank you for the correction. Yes, I meant to say "nage". I agree that zanshin is applied in pins as well as throws.

Having good zanshin also looks pretty too, doesn't it?

-John Matsushima

My blog on Japanese culture
http://onecorneroftheplanetinjapan.blogspot.jp/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 10:14 AM   #19
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,479
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin?

Quote:
Ian Upstone wrote:
John, not meaning to be picky but do you mean uke in this instance?
Even if you didn't, it still reminds me of those instances when zanshin is applied in techniques where uke does not end up out of range. I've seen (and been) uke 'held' in position, by shite's 'dominance' (if that's the correct word)
And, one should note -- in John's defense-- good zanshin on the part of uke to follow nage's technique as it is applied, often results in kaeshiwaza, even if it is from the ground. Uke's first job is ukemi, but it is not the only one. Zanshin on the part of uke keeps nage honest and his technique true.

Cordailly,
Erick Mead
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 06:27 PM   #20
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

I believe Zanshin can also mean "novelty". Don't quote me on that though.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 07:19 AM   #21
tedehara
 
tedehara's Avatar
Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote:
I believe Zanshin can also mean "novelty". Don't quote me on that though.
Too Late!

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 09:41 AM   #22
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

At Kondo Sensei's (mainline Daito ryu) last seminar in the states he described zanshin in a different way from what I've heard in aikido. He described it as 'leaving nothing behind'. When Hasagawa Sensei (one of his senior students) went though the kata in Ikkajo at the end of the seminar, it was very apparent what he meant. There was literally nothing left behind, and the effect on her uke was crystal clear. Wonderfull technique.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 11:03 AM   #23
odudog
Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 376
Offline
Re: Zanshin?

Quote:
John Matsushima wrote:
Lost in translation. This is the best way I can describe many concepts, ideas, and principles which become confusing and distorted as we try to study them. I am myself guilty of analyzing a Japanese term in a way that my western mind comes to twist the truth. For example, Aikido doesn't exactly mean "the way of harmony" or "the way of peace"; it is more accurate to say "the way of connection" If you are a good student and wish to study more, then I encourage you to learn Japanese; study the language, the culture, and make some Japanese friends. When you can "walk in another's shoes" then you may be able to see things a bit clearer. Zanshin, as translated directly from the Kanji means "lingering spirit/body". There are other words for awareness, and zanshin is not one of them. On the mat, zanshin is usually demonstrated as mentioned by others in this thread, that when uke "finishes" a technique, he/she remains in a certain posture for a few seconds. The more important question you should ask is "WHY do we do this?" I encourage you to think about this deeply and research it more yourself.
Mr. Matsushima, you and I are of the same mind in the translation of the meaning of Aikido. I translate it as being "the way of fusing energy". I speak a little bit of Japanese but my kanji is pretty non-existance. My wife tells me all the time that if I study kanji then my study of Japanese will be much easier. So lately, I have been on a kick of looking up the kanji for the Aikido words in my three dictionaries and then asking my wife for more context. Do you have the kanji for zanshin? From my understanding right now, zanshin means a strong focus / posture.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 11:36 AM   #24
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

Oops, sorry, that should have been Hasegawa Sensei.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 12:53 PM   #25
doronin
Location: Canada
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 45
Offline
Re: Zanshin development

Well, thanks.

Getting back to awareness... With all the above, I'm just wondering is there a concept of awareness in Aikido at all?
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
zanshin (awareness ) mut Humor 28 03-06-2007 03:09 AM
budoshin and zanshin? KamiKaze_Evolution Language 3 06-22-2004 05:01 PM
ki development ian General 7 05-18-2003 12:57 PM
Upper or Lower Body Development ? otto Training 65 03-05-2003 10:06 AM
AikiWeb News: New AikiCard Images from Zanshin Art AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 07-20-2002 10:17 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:03 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate